He's the same for the German nationalteam and really every German football fan I know is wondering if Khedira is really given that box to box role with a lot of freedom to move forward or if he's just irresponsible. Schweinsteiger is imo way better in that role, but he's the one who has to play the defensive role and cover for him all the time, it's really frustrating to watch. And yes, his finishing is awful.
Sami Khedira
- Thread starter Vinay
- Start date
Then he is just irresponsible. For some reason I had him as responsible and disciplined player, I always thought his bombing forward is just down to instructions he gets from manager, but I guess I was wrong.
Although, I must admit I haven't really followed him that closely while playing for Germany, I obviously prefer watching closely the likes of Reus, Gotze and Ozil(can't blame me).
Why are we assuming that Phil went to scout Khedira? Rakitic was also playing and he's a much better player. Even though Sevilla are doing well in the Europa League, with Rakitic being out of contract after the 14-15 season, a big offer in January might be able to dislodge him. (Always assuming he wouldn't be averse to being dislodged.)
Edit: And, unlike Khedira, Rakitic is not cup-tied for the CL.
Edit: And, unlike Khedira, Rakitic is not cup-tied for the CL.
Regardless, I'd rather him there than Anderson, Giggs and Jones since there's upside for him there rather than them.
Thing is, if "better than what we have now" is the standard then we're barely going to improve at all. We've gone past the stage where marginal improvements are acceptable, we need significant improvement.
We only have so much space for cms in the squad, if we keep buying fairly ordinary players we'll end up stuck with them (as we are with Fellaini). The only good thing about our cm at the moment is the fact that Giggs and Anderson will probably be gone soon, giving us the opportunity to bring in superior replacements. Let's not waste that opportunity on someone like Khedira.
Okay, well thanks for sharing that information, Red Shorts, I was on the edge of my seat anticipating your reply.
Yes, I've been wondering that aswell. Because if you have Schweinsteiger in the covering Role anyway you probably might aswell play Kroos or Gündogan next to him because they are so much better offensively than Khedira.
Ironically, I'd gladly see us spend upwards of 20M for the Khedira who plays for Germany. Not the one who shows up for Madrid...
How is a player that regularly starts for Germany and will be in next year's World Cup not good enough for us?
He was always getting forward under Mourinho. And for Germany. He's never been a sitting player, thats Alonso
We turned our nose up at Strootman because the other options were the likes of Fabregas and other clearly superior midfielders. If we'd known that we'd end up paying £28 million for Fellaini, of course Strootman would be the better option
It all depends on what the manager wants from him. He was restricted to what he could do when Mourinho signed him, but for Germany his performances have always been better. That isn't to say he's been poor for Real Madrid because that isn't true. His work rate is very good. His ability to find space is also at a world class level, but due to his technical limitations, he struggles to score at times. I'd definitely have him at the club, but for £20m.
His runs into the box from midfield are one of his main strengths and why he looked so good in a possession-based German game, offering some directness and penetration. In Real Madrid's system, where he's only expected to provide balance, he looks very average.
I don't believe he would offer anything substantially different from Fellaini.
I think he'd probably provide the things that some people expected from Fellaini, ie. hard work, pressing, looking like he gives a shit. But he's what you would want as a replacement for Fellaini, not someone next to him
People talk of gaps opening up in our midfield, which is true, however there is possibly only room for one more. Carrick isn't leaving any time soon. Neither is Fellaini, who is a Moyes purchase and has just signed. Then there's Cleverley, who is a very effective squad player, then there is Fletcher, who I can only assume will be given a fair amount of time to try and get back to a good level of performance. That's 4 players right there.
So even if Giggs and Anderson do leave in the next year, which is expected, would there be room for more than one midfield signing? Looking at the numbers, I don't think so. I like Khedira, he's underrated, but I'd sooner see the club go for a creative player. I could be wrong, though, and Moyes may view the likes of Cleverley and Fletcher as more dispensable than I assume.
So even if Giggs and Anderson do leave in the next year, which is expected, would there be room for more than one midfield signing? Looking at the numbers, I don't think so. I like Khedira, he's underrated, but I'd sooner see the club go for a creative player. I could be wrong, though, and Moyes may view the likes of Cleverley and Fletcher as more dispensable than I assume.
Carrick is 32, we need to looks at possible future replacements. Fellaini is not good enough. Cleverley is a good squad player and Fletcher is a complete unknown quantity atm. We need at least 2 CM's.
Fair points, but that isn't how Moyes is going to see things. Carrick may be 32, but he's not dead. May I remind you that Sir Alex, in his madness, thought it wise to play a 37 year old in a two man midfield against arguably the best club team in history. You might not think Fellaini is good enough which, again, is fine. But Moyes does. And Fletcher is an unknown quantity, you're right, but Moyes will give him a chance I'm sure.
I would like two midfielders. We need them. But unless Moyes plans on ruthlessly ending Fletcher's United career or fancies selling off Cleverley on top of Anderson and Giggs leaving, I don't see how we could keep 6 players happy. Or do you expect one of Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley and Fletcher to have left by next Summer. Discard them all you like, but they do exist.
Fellaini could potentially be a long term replacement for Carrick, although he currently has a lot to learn defensively.
I'd say for a central midfielder of Carrick's type 32 is an ideal age. Buying a replacement would only make sense if it's A) Someone who's already better or B) Someone who's satisfied with being his back up. Considering the issues with United's midfield, A is probably not a priority. B excludes young, expensive and established talents such as Verratti, Gündogan, Herrera or Koke.
He looked way better in the counterattacking setup at the world cup 2010, imo. Since we moved on to a more possession based team he often is caught out of position when we loose the ball and is therefore often no help at all defensively, he also looses the ball way too often for a central midfielder in a possession based team, his techique and his passing are simply not good enough for this type of football. His standout game at the Euro was the quarter final against Greece, the by far weakest opponent we faced in those 5 games, when he scored the 2-1 shortly after Greece scored the equaliser, but again we were really vulnarable to counterattacks and Schweinsteiger complained publicly after the game that he had to run way too much to cover for other players. Same happened again in the next game and we lost, Khedira was nowhere near any important Italian player when they attacked quickly. It's not really his fault, I blame mainly Löw for using tactics that didn't get the best out of most of our players, but I'm really surprised that someone believes he looks better in this team than for Madrid. I think the way Ancelotti plays him right now, in a box to box role as part of 3 men midfield is the best way to use him. His runs off the ball are really good, open up space when attacking, pressure the opponent in defense, but the team doesn't rely on him a lot in the build up and his runs usually don't hurt the defensive balance.
It's just that at Madrid they make him play and look way more limited than he actually is. For Germany he is involved in attacking play and actually creative. If we had a player like that alongside Carrick, his scoring rate would matter little.
I trust your German judgement and stand corrected. From your description, I really do not believe he is the right player for United.
He's not the player who can close the gap to the worldclass midfields of some of the European topteams, but I actually think he'd do very well in the Premier League. He's certainly suited to the high energy fast paced and physical game, he would benefit from teams playing with more width and therefore the central area being less crowded and he would bring a lot off the ball movement to United which your team clearly lacks. He's not perfect, he's not worldclass but he would be a very good addition to the team if no one like Fabregas is available. It would be crazy to take him off Madrid for more than €20m though.
Agreed, pretty much what everyone is saying. He's a good player and would be a good acquisition but he is not worth upward of 30mil which is one figure being bandied about.
And offensively. And passing, vision, discipline, crossing, dribbling, haircare and work rate.
Other than those aspects he's a perfect potential Carrick replacement.
He's just like 08-10 Fletcher in the sense that both of them possess the qualities that make a midfield destroyer but are able to contribute to the attack with their intelligent movements and hard running. Khedira has better technique and in attacking whereas Fletcher is stronger defensively and the better big game player. Both of them are the perfect players for counter-attacking teams.
I was thinking about the Fletcher/Khedira comparison this morning actually, and I don't think Khedira is better or even that close to the Fletcher of 08-10. Fletcher would pass him off the park; an aspect of his play that's always been very underrated. He's also stronger defensively with an equal work rate. If, and it's a massive if, Fletcher returns successfully, Khedira is essentially pointless.
Fletcher would be a bonus player in the future........we can't have much hope for him.
If Khedira is available for 25-30m then we must buy him.
If Khedira is available for 25-30m then we must buy him.
See my post further above. Buying Khedira would, in all liklihood, mean that we start next season with 5 central midfielders in Carrick, Fellaini, Cleverley, Fletcher and then Khedira. That is without the 'superstar' creative kind we need more than anything. 5 is fine, but 6 isn't happening. And like I said, Fletcher will be important in the eyes of Moyes. Unless we ruthlessly discard Fletcher or get rid of a perfectly decent squad player in Cleverley, there is no room for two midfielders. And if people want to waste that spot on somebody like Khedira then more fool them.
I really hope Fletcher comes back!!!!!! He has time til the end of the season to prove his fitness.......but i have doubts he can do it (for Manchester United).
Carrick, Khedira, Fellaini, Cleverley + a creative midfielder would be my dream midfield for next season.
Carrick, Khedira, Fellaini, Cleverley + a creative midfielder would be my dream midfield for next season.
Agree with you there, mate.
Fletcher is done for.
Even if he's not, you wouldn't want to bet your house on him being good enough anymore.
He is, but my point still stands. The club, and Moyes, is going to give him every chance. He isn't getting fecked off come the Summer unless he looks absolutely atrocious. It's very, very likely that he fills up a slot in the 25 come next season. There's no way the club goes through all of this to then bump him off after 6 months.
No he is not.
He will get some chance. But he's not going to be given a run of games if he isn't showing it on the pitch.
He'll be bumped off after 12 months. Or he will be the 26th man Moyes doesn't need but keeps him on behind all the other midfielders just in case he recovers.
He is maybe out for a few months. Knee injury.
Can't understand why you're being so definitive as if you know anything as a certaintywhen the truth is you have no idea what sort of chance he has. I have high hopes for him personally and after seeing him in a couple of games for the U21s in recent weeks I'm slightly more positive than I was before.
That's a huge blow for the lad, might be struggling for the world cup.
And ends any transfer hype!