With Khedira and the reported fee it was more like antihype
Sami Khedira
- Thread starter Vinay
- Start date
This is completely off topic but did Moyes ever actually try to sign Khedira? Was it ever confirmed or just speculation?
I think the interest was pretty concrete, but the £40 million or whatever fee was either speculation (from someone on drugs) or the bid of a mad man
Hilarious that Fletcher is now some sort of benchmark, but most of his time in the team was dismissed on here as Fergie being addled and picking him because he was Scottish.
Confirmed by Khedira on a german press conference in September.
Very underrated & would love him here, to be honest.
If Moyes was to make Khedira his second signing I'd probably cry a little. Khedira on his own for big money is worrying, Khedira to come in after Fellaini would send out a terrible message.
He's got good legs to run around in midfield, he makes good runs off the ball and he's competitive and will put in a tackle. But what is that kind of player worth? I would say he's maybe a better version of Fletcher. Is a better Fletcher worth £20 million+ let alone the rest?
We surely wouldn't still be interested following the cruciate anyway.
Horrible news for him, I feel for him. I'm 4 months post op at the moment. I'm finding out just how tough it is to get back, all the best for him with his recovery, will be a massive acivement if he can get to the World Cup now but I wouldn't be putting any money on him being there and that's a shame because I have always rated him.
Indeed. Is he even as good as Fletcher technically?
I don't think he is, I see him quite often making mess out of simple touch, and while Fletcher was never brilliant technically, at least he was consistent with his touch and passing which can't be said for Khedira. Also Fletched played on the wing lot of times for us, and I can't see Khedira being anything but disaster on the wing.
Btw shame about his injury, he seems like decent bloke.
Btw shame about his injury, he seems like decent bloke.
I'd say they are about the same level. Fletcher at best is a tidy passer and a reliable player in midfield, just like how Khedira is for Real Madrid. You will not see them carve defences open with methodical passing.
Either way, we don't need them. They would make our already very functional midfield, more functional.
Can you imagine anyone paying £20M+ for Fletcher, even when he was playing at his best? I doubt Fletcher was ever even worth £10M tbh.
of course he was worth £10 million. At his best he was as good as players we bought at around the £15-16 million price point
I think that many United fans have the same view of Fletcher as the Scouse had/have of Lucas.
The longer he's out the more mythical his powers.
Not really considering a lot of fans were saddened he'd be missing the Champions League final. If he was just decent for us it'd not have happened.
We bought Carrick, Anderson and Hargreaves for what 16-20 million topping off with Anderson
Fletcher at his best was playing better than any of them for a spell. At that point he was certainly worth £15 million.
Fletcher at his best was playing better than any of them for a spell. At that point he was certainly worth £15 million.
Afraid I agree with this.
He was a quality big game player, but the longer time goes on, the more the comments about how we'd have done well in the finals against Barcelona, how we'd have a better midfield now etc increase
Fletcher was the best destroyer around...he was a super human athlete...but he wasn't technically good enough to play in a midfield 2...but in a midfield 3 he was phenomenal in big games......my guess is that next summer madrid will go for pogba and gundogan and if they get them then khedira would be sold....mourinho would be the favorite to get him but he'd be perfect for us if we ever went back in for him
I don't understand the huge criticism he gets. Technically, he is on a similar (probably a little lower) level to Fletcher, and isn't as good in that destroyer/water-carrier role, but he is not as far behind him as people are making out. While Mourinho did tend to keep him behind the half-way line at all times, he - like Fletcher - is very good at making late runs and driving forward. In my opinion, he is quite a well-rounded player and would be a squad player (getting plenty of games) at any club in the world bar Barça & Bayern. If we didn't already have Fellaini (who is inferior, in my opinion), he'd be a good fit for us. He is capable in a 2 man midfield, as well.
Such a shame about the injury - for all the wealth in talent Germany has, he still gets games for them and has proved an important player in the past. Wish him all the best with the recovery, it would be nice to see him at the World Cup.
Such a shame about the injury - for all the wealth in talent Germany has, he still gets games for them and has proved an important player in the past. Wish him all the best with the recovery, it would be nice to see him at the World Cup.
Might have something to do with the manager, who also believes it's a great idea to start Podolski in a Euro semifinal against Italy and bench Müller and Reus. I'm not his biggest fan but with Gündogan and Schweinsteiger also out right now and both struggling with injuries for quite a while, it's a huge problem that most likely Khedira won't be at 100% for the world cup. Ideally, I don't want him to start at the world cup, but we really need him to be fit and part of the squad.
What does Khedira offer to the Germany side that either of the Bender twins don't?
Oh so did I just imagine that he was picked in the PFA team of the year in 09-10?
For about 24 months Fletcher was one of the best midfielders in the PL and was invaluable in the biggest games. That is not mythical.
Of course - while I'm not implying he should be starting a final, he offers something different to the rest and is a good option to put on if protecting a lead, or to start against opposition with plenty of firepower, say Brasil. I haven't watched Germany too closely since the Euros so I am not sure, but would a midfield pairing of Schweinsteiger and Gundogan be solid enough defensively, against a top side? The problem is compounded by the fact that Germany's defence is probably the weakest link (just from what I see, I may be wrong) & a very solid midfield will be necessary to paper over the cracks.
Balu, do you think that Germany are going to play 3 in midfield (with 2 forwards and a striker, presumably), or go for a 4231 (two in midfield, 2 wide forwards, a #10 and a striker)? Interesting to see how things may change between now and the summer.
Scott Parker.
Nah, that's mean spirited of me.
Yeah, nice attempt.
If you don't think that Fletcher was one of the best midfielders in the PL for two years straight then you're a fecking moron.
Yeah, nice attempt.
If you don't think that Fletcher was one of the best midfielders in the PL for two years straight then you're a fecking moron.
I haven't once insulted you, it's just a difference of opinion, I'd report your post except that whenever I report a post I end up getting in trouble myself, so you got away with it this time.
Scott Parker was player of the year in 2011, I doubt anyone on here would say he was the best player in the country in that season. Does that make us all morons?
Anyway, off the subject.
Khedira's injured now, to the Fletcher thread!
Well said, Colin.
Rowem, mind your manners!
Rowem, mind your manners!
Unless Schweinsteiger is in top form the pairing Schweinsteiger/Khedira can´t be called very solid. It was infact the former, who took over the more defensive role and filled the voids that opened up because Khedira wandered in no-mans-land and abandoned his position. Our personnel for the back four is not that much of a problem. We have the best RB in the world, a handful of highclass CB´s and a LB, who while not being world class still held his own on the highest international level. The biggest problem is our defensive movement as a whole and that the back four gets exposed way too easily because their is not enough service from the midfield.
I see no reason why a Schweinsteiger-Gündogan pair should not work, because Schweinsteiger has enough defensive stability to play the defensive role. If you want maximum defensive steel Khedira would not be the first choice either. Sven Bender eats him alive in any defensive category.
Khedira´s way too solid standing in the national team is one of the weirdest coaching standpoints Löw shows. Depending on the tactics and situations there is always one other who I would put over him. He does not offer nearly as much offensively as Kroos or Gündogan, he is not as well rounded as Lars Bender and like I mentioned before Sven Bender gives us way more denfensive stability.
Khedira is a good solid midfielder, when he actually acts like one, but all other options actually bring something on the table he is not able to. He would make a good squad player, but a starter given the depth of talent Germany has there? I don´t think so.
Schweinsteiger was always the more defensive minded midfielder for the nationalteam than Khedira and I don't think Gündogan contributes less in defense than Khedira did at the Euro. Imo, if you want a true defensive midfielder, you use Sven Bender, if you want a box to box player with more focus on defense, you play Lars Bender. If you want a midfield partner next to Schweinsteiger, who offers a lot going forward, you use Gündogan or Kroos. Khedira can play all those roles but neither to a comparable level as the other ones and he's not as good an allrounder as Schweinsteiger is.
I have no idea what Löw will do. We either need to build around Özil as an AM, which means one of the Benders should start and Schweinsteiger or Gündogan should play the more attacking part of a midfield 2. Or we need to drop Özil and play a strong 3men midfield, ideally Schweinsteiger, Gündogan and Kroos together, then we should drop Özil and play Müller as the striker and Götze on the right or Götze as a false 9 and Müller on the right. I'm bit worried, that Löw tries to copy Guardiola's 4141 without really understanding how it works and how to use the players to actually make it work. Playing Lahm in CM against Italy was a good example of that. What a stupid idea, espeically with no second right back in the team and quality CMs on the bench. Then he might play a 3 men midfield with Özil out wide against strong teams because he's too good a player to drop, even though he's clearly inferior to our other options for that position. I'm really not excited about the world cup at all and I hope the players start putting pressure on Löw soon and force him to stop making idiotic experiments. Löw sees himself as some sort of visionary, which is a big problem because he's a) not a good enough manager to translate ideas into brilliantly executed tactics and b) at a time when 2 German clubs have outstanding teams full of German players the manager of the nationalteam should use those teams as the foundation and try to make it work instead of trying something completely different. He completely ignored Heynckes' and Klopp's brilliant work and quite a few times made some disrespectful comments towards both. The team is probably too good to fail massively, but not good enough to win despite having a shit manager.
You have a lot of good options. I would agree that you can do better than Khedira. Arguably there are three that should be ahead of him in the Benders and Gundogan.
There's really no point trying to have a sensible discussion with someone who is making a vague, facetious and illogical point.
It's much easier to insult you than to take the time to point out why you're wrong. This is the internet. That's how it works. Considering that you have no fixed point to make and are being purposefully awkward, I don't believe there is any chance of having a rational and constructive conversation with you about that would result in any kind of positive outcome. And the fact is, YOU know that too. Every post you have made in this thread has been ostentatious and passively aggressive, including playing the "oh my God you made a personal insult" card. I'm just not going to play your game.
This passage perfectly sums up the problematic with the national team in the recent years. Well put.
For me, Löw is a mediocre coach who was simply there at the right time for him to massively profit from the strong German youth development.
That's true - it's fair to say that Schweinsteiger is more than comfortable in a defensive role (doing it moreso than before, due to the attacking options Germany have - a similar situation at Bayern, with the likes of Ribery etc), something we could not say a few years ago. I think he'll need to play every game for Germany to have a good shot, so he'll be under a lot of pressure. I'd definitely pick Sven over Lars Bender, again due to the fact that Germany's defence is a little weak, and the attack needs no help at all. Agreed about Özil too - I have always said that the side should be built around him, but whether that can be incorporated against sides where defensive still will be required remains to be seen (not a criticism of him).
With all this having been said, it's strange you aren't so excited for the WC (bar the midfield injury crisis going on) - everyone has Germany up there as one of the top 3 sides, mostly alongside Brasil and Spain. While I do think Löw is not exactly the best fit for the German national team at the minute (in that, the team should have a more accomplished, more astute manager at the helm) I do think that he won't be the biggest problem as long as he gets the selections right - as you said, the team is almost too good to fail. I guess we will just have to wait and see, but I still feel Germany will reach the semi-finals at least. You guys will only get better, too - just wait until 2018.
Again, that is true - perhaps i've overrated Khedira's defensive contribution. For what it's worth, if all midfielders are fit, I don't think he should start a single game - for solidity in defence, Schweinsteiger & one of the Benders (
) should play (or all 3) while for the most part, Gundogan will suffice. While your back-line on paper isn't a problem, don't you think the lack of cover for Lahm is a bit of an issue? He brings so much to the side, say if he was injured, what would happen? I guess it all comes down to the fact that Khedira is not the best option for defence, nor for attack, & that is where the problem lies - a jack of all trades and master of none is simply not good enough to start for a team that intends to win the World Cup, when there is an abundance of players (Benders, Schweinsteiger, Gundogan and Kroos) that are all specialized in different things and all of higher quality, and may be rotated as the situation requires. If I were the manager, I would pick Schweinsteiger & Gundogan together, with Sven Bender playing if protecting a lead or playing under the cosh & counter-attacking against Brasil/Spain. If it weren't for the injury crisis, you could say that all your problems are good problems to have - you have plenty of options for however you want to set up, but as Balu said, perhaps Löw is not the right man for the job.