Music Sam Smith (Singer)

[Pexbo]

I’m really not a fan of Sam Smith but it’s funny watching the same people who can’t stand Piers Morgan and Graham Lineham getting into the same tizzy as Piers Morgan and Graham Lineham.

He’s a non-binary, queer pop star. You’re probably not his audience.

I’m not going to compare them musically because Bowie is a bonafide genius and legend as is Mercury but they’re good examples of how pop stars have always pushed the boundaries of what people find acceptable or tasteful when it comes to fashion.

 

[Smores]

It's just an opinion.

I am just entitled to say someone born with a pen1s will always be a man, as they are to claim to be a woman, or in this case neither.

It's not to offend anyone, I don't think Sam Smith is a man because I want to upset him or anyone else - I am simply coming from a biological point of view and thousands of years of human history which we seem all too keen to eradicate just to please a few.

You know you don't have to give voice to all your thoughts and opinions though? The choice of speaking them is obviously a choice to offend, that just applies to every opinion. Although I'm guessing you take pride in telling people that you 'say it as it is".

The general advice of 'don't be a dick' works wonders. Doesn't cost anything.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Some spectacular knuckledragging going on in here.

The "wake up and choose" rhetoric is just beyond ignorance, perhaps equally as ignorant as suggesting immunity to depression is relative to the size of someone's mansion.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Of course, but I don't think they're allowed into women's bathrooms if that's the case?

Well, that's the crux of the issue of the proposed changes to Self-ID legislation.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I’m really not a fan of Sam Smith but it’s funny watching the same people who can’t stand Piers Morgan and Graham Lineham getting into the same tizzy as Piers Morgan and Graham Lineham.

He’s a non-binary, queer pop star. You’re probably not his audience.

I’m not going to compare them musically because Bowie is a bonafide genius and legend as is Mercury but they’re good examples of how pop stars have always pushed the boundaries of what people find acceptable or tasteful when it comes to fashion.

I get your point (bold) but when Piers Morgan was battering the corrupt and inept Tories during the pandemic and holding them to account on his show, was it weird I was on his side?

What's funny is the levels of tribalism where you cannot be seen to agree with people on other things because you disagree on something. The worst person who made a good point meme is on the nose!

I don't think you can compare going dressed to an awards show as your stage persona to Sam Smith. Perhaps because I am fond of Bowie, perhaps this is a blind spot but I don't see the parallels.

 

[ChrisNelson]

'homosexuality isn't natural'

'it's just an opinion'

misgendering clearly is offensive to those you misgender. if you know this and carry on doing it anyway, then what does that say about you?

That's the point though - if I call pen1s owning Sam Smith a man that is not misgendering him according to thousands of years of biology. That's the only road I'm going down, science.

I can point you to thousands of books that will confirm his gender.

I'm afraid that his change of gender is in his head only, and judging by his outfit at the weekend and music video I'd say that's a pretty troubled place right now.

 

[Pexbo]

I get your point (bold) but when Piers Morgan was battering the corrupt and inept Tories during the pandemic and holding them to account on his show, was it weird I was on his side?

What's funny is the levels of tribalism where you cannot be seen to agree with people on other things because you disagree on something. The worst person who made a good point meme is on the nose!

I don't think you can compare going dressed to an awards show as your stage persona to Sam Smith. Perhaps because I am fond of Bowie, perhaps this is a blind spot but I don't see the parallels.

Just for reference. Since when have awards ceremonies been black tie events? It’s always been a bunch of attention seekers trying to out attention seek each other.

 

[SilentWitness]

That's the point though - if I call pen1s owning Sam Smith a man that is not misgendering him according to thousands of years of biology. That's the only road I'm going down, science.

I can point you to thousands of books that will confirm his gender.

I'm afraid that his change of gender is in his head only, and judging by his outfit at the weekend and music video I'd say that's a pretty troubled place right now.

Gender and sex is not the same.

 

[Samid]

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Just for reference. Since when have awards ceremonies been black tie events? It’s always been a bunch of attention seekers trying to out attention seek each other.

Never said they were black tie events.

For this outfit:

Kansai Yamamoto was the first Japanese designer to have a show in London. It was on the Kings Road in 1970 and Bowie was there.
"This is significant," says Ms Broackes from the V&A. "It was before he was a major star. He was 24 years old and at a fashion show where something extraordinary was happening."
He watched the Japanese Kabuki theatre models with their wigs of bright red hair model the clothes.
"They didn't just show the clothes, they performed them," says Ms Broackes. "Bowie copied this. He was very interested in Kabuki theatre, not just for the obvious reason of the androgyny but also for the way that as the costumes changed, so did the mood and the scenes."
Unable to afford the original designs, Bowie asked friends to create cheaper versions. He later met Yamamoto and the pair formed a lifelong friendship.

Seems he wore this on tour as part of his stage persona. So what I said tracks.

 

[Pexbo]

Never said they were black tie events.

For this outfit:

Kansai Yamamoto was the first Japanese designer to have a show in London. It was on the Kings Road in 1970 and Bowie was there.
"This is significant," says Ms Broackes from the V&A. "It was before he was a major star. He was 24 years old and at a fashion show where something extraordinary was happening."
He watched the Japanese Kabuki theatre models with their wigs of bright red hair model the clothes.
"They didn't just show the clothes, they performed them," says Ms Broackes. "Bowie copied this. He was very interested in Kabuki theatre, not just for the obvious reason of the androgyny but also for the way that as the costumes changed, so did the mood and the scenes."
Unable to afford the original designs, Bowie asked friends to create cheaper versions. He later met Yamamoto and the pair formed a lifelong friendship.

Seems he wore this on tour as part of his stage persona. So what I said tracks.

Would you say that an awards ceremony is not a work event for Sam Smith?

 

[stepic]

Gender and sex is not the same.

i've already told him this once, and he continues to ignore it.

i guess this very simple concept wasn't discussed in those 1000 books on gender he mentioned.

 

[NotThatSoph]

@Samid a few pages later now.

Do we still have to assume that people are just not making mistakes, or can we say that some do it on purpose?

 

[2 man midfield]

I happen to think Sam smith is a bit of a knob. But if I ever met them, I’d still respect whatever they wished to be called out of basic politeness. That has nothing to do with them being a knob, it should be afforded to everyone.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Would you say that an awards ceremony is not a work event for Sam Smith?

That's a random thing to say.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

I happen to think Sam smith is a bit of a knob. But if I ever met them, I’d still respect whatever they wished to be called out of basic politeness. That has nothing to do with them being a knob, it should be afforded to everyone.

Agree, costs nothing.

 

[Pexbo]

That's a random thing to say.

You said it’s OK for Bowie to wear his costumes because it was part of his stage persona. I’m pretty sure that Bowie was in character for Ziggy Stardust 24/7?

Sam Smith has a stage persona too, it seems fitting that he would play up to this persona at an awards ceremony no?

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

You said it’s OK for Bowie to wear his costumes because it was part of his stage persona. I’m pretty sure that Bowie was in character for Ziggy Stardust 24/7?

Sam Smith has a stage persona too, it seems fitting that he would play up to this persona at an awards ceremony no?

I didn't say it was OK, again, you seem to just say stuff regardless of what I actually post.

I said I don't believe Sam Smith wearing that random outfit is the same as Bowie creating a stage persona he pretty much embodied for years and wearing costumes, on tour as part of the said persona. There is no right or wrong, I just don't think the comparisons are just. I think they are lazy and are reaching.

You disagree, yet you name Bowie's persona and character (which he is mega-famous for embodying during a seminal career) but then try to compare to Sam Smith's persona, which is.....Sam Smith? hence my point, I don't really think it is comparable.

But I will be abundantly clear, there is no right or wrong, it's OK for Sam Smith to wear whatever.

 

[Bilbo]

All gender stuff aside, it's really a ridiculous outfit and would only be worn by someone trying too hard to attract attention, and negative attention at that. A glimpse into the mind of a celebrity who knows their most interesting work is already behind them.

 

[stepic]

Well, that's the crux of the issue of the proposed changes to Self-ID legislation.

the Equality Act 2010 already permits trans people to use the bathroom of their identified gender.

 

[Reditus]

All gender stuff aside, it's really a ridiculous outfit and would only be worn by someone trying too hard to attract attention, and negative attention at that. A glimpse into the mind of a celebrity who knows their most interesting work is already behind them.

I thought their outfit was silly too just as many of the other celebs at this show and others shows wore silly outfits. But we have seen stuff like this for years from various celebs. Im not a fan of Sam Smiths music but they appear to be as popular as ever. Their latest single is contantly on the radio so I dont think this was done to get attention to help a failing career.

 

[Jippy]

I don't get the moaning about the silly outfit. Surely half the game at these bashes is to have a laugh and get some coverage.

 

[The Corinthian]

Bjork & David Bowie were quite innovative with their music and image though.

I just don't see that same level of originality or authenticity with Sam Smith. What's innovative about his music?

But as others have said - he can wear what he wants, and we can say it's this and that etc.

 

[2 man midfield]

Lady Gaga wore a dress made entirely from meat. It’s nothing new. It’s definitely a bit attention seek-y though, but that’s nothing new either. These are people that live to have people talk about them, and get twitchy if we don’t. I’d imagine it’s a pre-requisite to even get to the top of the industry.

 

[Massive Spanner]

It's a real shame we can't laugh at how ridiculous the outfit is without people getting bringing their gender into it.

Popstars are attention seeking knobheads regardless of whether they're he, she, or they. Piers Morgan could've just tweeted laughing at how attention seeking the outfit was, but nope, he had to mention Smith's preferred pronoun in the header as if there's a correlation between the two, when there's clearly not. That's why Piers Morgan is a dickhead.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Where they come from isn't all that great. Their automobile is a piece of crap and their fashion sense is a little wack. I bet all their friends are just as screwy as them.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I mean, what’s the right amount of thirst for attention? If that can’t be defined then how can anyone be over-thirsty?

Fecking hilarious outfit though. Especially the chubby, sweaty head sticking out the top of it. At least Bowie and Bjork looked cool.

 

[stepic]

It's a real shame we can't laugh at how ridiculous the outfit is without people getting bringing their gender into it.

Popstars are attention seeking knobheads regardless of whether they're he, she, or they. Piers Morgan could've just tweeted laughing at how attention seeking the outfit was, but nope, he had to mention Smith's preferred pronoun in the header as if there's a correlation between the two, when there's clearly not. That's why Piers Morgan is a dickhead.

yep, exactly. no one is denying celebs wear stupid things but this is just another old man (piers) using it as an excuse to take the piss out of gender identity - because he knows that's good for engagement with his conservative, gc base. more culture war bullshit. unironically doing the same thing he's critical of sam about.

and there's a few in here who are just as bad, getting offended by pronouns - i mean, christ

 

[Volumiza]

I don't get the moaning about the silly outfit. Surely half the game at these bashes is to have a laugh and get some coverage.

Exactly, been going on for decades. It is and always will be pure attention grabbing.

That being said, picking out Sam in particular for criticism in this respect surely just points to prejudice?

 

[arnie_ni]

That's the point though - if I call pen1s owning Sam Smith a man that is not misgendering him according to thousands of years of biology. That's the only road I'm going down, science.

I can point you to thousands of books that will confirm his gender.

I'm afraid that his change of gender is in his head only, and judging by his outfit at the weekend and music video I'd say that's a pretty troubled place right now.

I mean I'm never going to understand all this and I don't think I ever have to, but if someone wants to be called they/their, I'd just do it. Its respectful. You don't have to understand it, or in your case like it.

 

[arnie_ni]

It's a real shame we can't laugh at how ridiculous the outfit is without people getting bringing their gender into it.

Popstars are attention seeking knobheads regardless of whether they're he, she, or they. Piers Morgan could've just tweeted laughing at how attention seeking the outfit was, but nope, he had to mention Smith's preferred pronoun in the header as if there's a correlation between the two, when there's clearly not. That's why Piers Morgan is a dickhead.

I actually didn't even pick up on that. Does change the perspective of the post a bit

 

[Jippy]

Exactly, been going on for decades. It is and always will be pure attention grabbing.

That being said, picking out Sam in particular for criticism in this respect surely just points to prejudice?

It is a particularly unusual outfit, so no in that sense, but as @Massive Spanner said, Morgan made it so with the unnecessary dig.

 

[Vidyoyo]

It's a perfectly normal outfit if your fashion sense doesn't include shirts bought by your wife from M&S

 

[Volumiza]

It's a perfectly normal outfit if your fashion sense doesn't include shirts bought by your wife from M&S

We all know it's a perfectly normal outfit for you dude

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

the Equality Act 2010 already permits trans people to use the bathroom of their identified gender.

I was responding to a poster that said that a transwoman couldn't use a "female" bathroom unless she'd had surgery/was on hormones, which is incorrect:

Of course, but I don't think they're allowed into women's bathrooms if that's the case?

You are right regarding the Equality Act but I don't quite understand what that has to do with what I said.

But your point is a good one and you could then ask why there was a proposed change to self-ID laws if the right to use the bathroom of your choice is already enshrined in the Equality Act.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Lady Gaga wore a dress made entirely from meat. It’s nothing new. It’s definitely a bit attention seek-y though, but that’s nothing new either. These are people that live to have people talk about them, and get twitchy if we don’t. I’d imagine it’s a pre-requisite to even get to the top of the industry.

Wasn't this to protest the meat industry?

 

[Volumiza]

It is a particularly unusual outfit

No sh*t

Imagine how much they must have been squeaking when they moved.

 

[Cheimoon]

It's unnecessary, I've always found it relatively easy to identify if someone is a biological male or female from either looking at them or checking their name, or both.

So when I see an email signed off 'John Smith - he/him' I can't help but think well yeah... obviously.

I think people like that are just trying to normalise the practice to not make others feel strange for doing so.

Apart from the gender point that others have made: while it may be obvious for names from your own culture (probably western names given your username), names from other parts of the globe may not be so obvious (I have no idea which Chinese teams are male or female, for example); you don't always see each other with today's virtual environments; and it's not always clear from appearances either (which, again, is further complicated by gender).

It's easy for me: my name is instantly recognisable as male here in Canada, I look male (beard) and I identify as a man. But I anyway put those pronouns in my e-mail signature to normalize the practice (as @horsechoker said), so that it's easier for people who think they need to give their pronouns to do so without immediately feeling like they're stigmatized themselves.

See it as a kind of community service.

That's the point though - if I call pen1s owning Sam Smith a man that is not misgendering him according to thousands of years of biology. That's the only road I'm going down, science.

I can point you to thousands of books that will confirm his gender.

I'm afraid that his change of gender is in his head only, and judging by his outfit at the weekend and music video I'd say that's a pretty troubled place right now.

Have you ever looked up the definitions of sex and gender? Sex is biological, based on whether you have male or female reproductive organs. That's what your books will talk about (although that's actually a bit more fluid as well, surprisingly: article from Nature). Gender is cultural, it's whether you identify with the female or male role in society. So yes, it's absolutely in your head, that's what gender is: your self-perception (and not as whimsical thing, I might add).

Taste in clothes is something else altogether.

 

[The Corinthian]

It's a real shame we can't laugh at how ridiculous the outfit is without people getting bringing their gender into it.

Popstars are attention seeking knobheads regardless of whether they're he, she, or they. Piers Morgan could've just tweeted laughing at how attention seeking the outfit was, but nope, he had to mention Smith's preferred pronoun in the header as if there's a correlation between the two, when there's clearly not. That's why Piers Morgan is a dickhead.

How else was Piers meant to tweet about it? He had to use the term 'they' as that's Smith's preferred pronoun choice. The only extra attention Piers brought to it was the inclusion of '...' in the tweet, which is expected of someone with his views on gender etc.

It'd be the same if Linehan made a tweet about a trans woman saying " 'She' is wearing an outfit to attract attention again!"

 

[Jippy]

No sh*t

Imagine how much they must have been squeaking when they moved.

Yep and literally no-one can look cool while walking in that garb.