He was always a one trick pony.
Sadio Mane | LFC Player
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He was always a one trick pony.
If Mahrez and Mane are available for 30-35m per player than we should take them both. First of all we lack goals and they provide that. Secondly our lack of talent on the flanks is shocking. Even if they prove to be not M.U.Q which I pretty much doubt it would be the case, they would still provide ample cover to the team. Not to forget that EPL proven players may be outrageously expensive and overrated but they do have some perks having them.
Also 30-35m are the 2010s version of 15m.
Also 30-35m are the 2010s version of 15m.
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I wouldn't say that. Beckham was an incredibly effective crosser of the ball. Valencia was nowhere near to him.
It was only a matter of time before Valencia's trick was discovered and countered.
But he was incredibly effective 'at his peak'. It might not have lasted very long, but he was a great option on the right flank for a couple of seasons.
Yes hw was. Still more effective than mane has been so far. No shame in that though for Mane.
I beg to differ on that. In 2010 (considered one of his best seasons with us) Valencia scored 5 goals and had 7 assists. Mane scored 12 goals last season alone
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Valencia was good at his peak but his actual quality is rather overstated. The season he won the POTY he only turned up for the last 3 months (Probably his best period in a United shirt) which remained fresh in people's minds. Over the course of the entire season he was definitely not our best player. And the period where Valencia was assisting Rooney is also rather overstated. iirc Nani assisted as many goals to Rooney over the course of the season or close enough (Will have to confirm this) yet no one talks about that.
Mane is quite easily more all rounded than Valencia. Whether that translates to him being as effective at a club like United remains to be seen.
Mane is quite easily more all rounded than Valencia. Whether that translates to him being as effective at a club like United remains to be seen.
I put his stats for that season in the first post you quoted. 14 assists. 5 goals.
Sorry I didnt notice that. Can you kindly post the link from where you got those stats. I can't find any decent site who gives you such info anywhere
No idea if this is a decent site but its regularly updated.
http://www.whoscored.com/Players/18296/History/Antonio-Valencia
My point isn't that Mane isn't good and wouldn't improve us. I just took exception to the previous poster saying how Mane is already better than Valencia has ever been. While he is very one dimensional, that dimension was very very effective that season. I think that was the year Rooney scored a bucket load and a lot were headers from valwncia crosses.
There had been many one trick ponies in football and some of them were brutally effective. Beckham was all passing and freekicks, Inzaghi was all finishing, same as Chicarito while if you strip Gattuso from his work rate he would turn into a conference type of player.
The trouble with one dimension players as opposed to those who are not is that once one learn to counter them they would be effective like dog shit. Some manage to remain on top for the rest of their career mainly because they are simply world class in what they do. Take Becks as an example. How can anyone stop someone who could swing a ball like it was some guided missle? However lesser mortals tend to become less and less effective as defences learn how to counter them. Chicarito had to move to Germany because of that. Valencia had to move to RB.
Mane doesn't seem to be that sort of player. He's a decent dribbler, with a good eye of goal and he has great pace. If shit hits fan he may well end up into another Ashley Young but I can't see him either becoming the next Nani (he's too used to the EPL to lazy around) or the next Valencia (he's not a one trick pony). Mane real test will be in short term to face a team were their aim isn't that to win but to get a point and in long term once he will lose his pace. However I can't see him fail unless we start relying too much on him (ie Mane by himself wont sort the problem)
this thread is about Sadio Mane, no? 
I like Mané but I don't like the prices linked with his name. Now your point about PL proven and players from the continent needing time, that's a very weak point, Mahrez and Mané are examples of it. And PL players struggle as much as the rest when they join a bigger club.
This isnt Mane and Mahrezs first seasons though, so it kinda backs his point up...
They were very good in their first seasons too.
How about we cut the head of the United and PL tax and go for Mane and Mahrez before they come to England? I can't for the life of me understand how hard it is to utilize the scouting system. We are still a behemoth of a club and should be monitoring every single player with a spark of potential. And no, don't tell me that we need proven players cuz it does not guarantee jack.
You mean when he used to slap him silly during games. We are only seeing his limitations now because as he got older he realised he can't continue the assault on defenders.
Well every premier league club is looking for Mane and Mahrez before they became famous and everyone missed the boat. Over the years we picked up the likes of Smalling, Hernandez, Vidic etc before the rest of the league got wind of them, so its not like the scouting set up has constantly failed us. We probably have had more bargains with Fergie's networking skills from the lower leagues when he was the manager which we don't have anymore but still its been a short time and we have to wait and see if they can adapt.
this thread is about Sadio Mane, no?
all threads get evolved into LvG out anyway
I have wanted to say this for years, it's all Martin Ferguson's work.(I'm speculating)
Just buy him now.. He can play vs Chelsea he usually bullies them..
Only two posters mentioned him in the last 24h and you are one of them.
1. those teams will also charge us more than they would have charged the likes of leicester and southampton
2. we have less leeway than them. For Mahrez came from Le Havre who are currently in Ligue 2. We have seen that people coming from Champions of Netherlands struggle at united, its not far fetched to not go for an uncapped player from a smaller team from France. Btw Mahrez had 4 goals and 3 assists last season. But because it was in Leicester, he wasnt critiscized for it. If that was at united, he would have been critiscized as shit by the caf unanimously.
it was more tongue in cheek :P
Interested to see whether he plays in the FA Cup at the weekend.
Valencia in his romp was unstoppable, won't hear otherwise!! I remember that game against Liverpool where he stormed forward and belted a shot from long range. Cracked against the post but in his prime he was a beast
For us?
Normally I would prefer that we look elsewhere, especially France, but in this window we need a signing like Mane, who can come in and contribute right away, to help us save our season. Long term, sensible signings are for the summer after we've hopefully averted a second disastrous season in three years!
We've done just that in the past but, for every player that does start being really good there are far more that don't. Look at some of our own punts not too long ago - Obertan, Mame Diouf, Manucho, Tosic, Bebe. Then you look at all the other clubs in the PL and they've probably brought in players that showed some potential but, so many of them don't make the step up.
The other hing with trying to unearth diamonds in the rough, it's very difficult to do it it at a club like United unless they've really shown something special at a different club. To get a chance to be smoothed out, they will need games even when they are not performing well. That though gets reserved for players that have already been identified as the possible next big thing such as the Memphis' and Martials of the world. If we had got Mahrez or Mane before they started to show what they have at their current clubs, possibly they'd never have got enough game time to shine as they have.
Part of being a club competing at the very top level, you have to wait for some of the other clubs to give these potentials a chance and then pay the premium if they do show something. Also, keep in mind, taking a punt on players from other leagues means less chance for our academy players as well. Recently we've been trying to get some of those players to make the step up instead of buying some hopeful and giving them the few minutes for the more fringe players.
Anyway, Mane definitely has shown something, think he'd definitely be the type of player Fergie would bring in but, maybe not for the prices being touted.
Valencia was very good at his best but not a special/top player. He made the most of his limited ability and did well for us.
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You're telling me, if we discount his Wigan days, although you could include them, it took left backs three seasons to work out what Valencia's game was all about? That doesn't make any sense. It's not like all of a sudden Valencia's attempts at getting past left backs failed... he just stopped even attempting it. His crossing also became useless. I really don't buy it takes three seasons, plus his Wigan days, to work him out.
He was nowhere near to all his predecessors and he's the weakest first team RW throughout SAF's reign
He probably just lost the acceleration from a stop start that used to make him go past his full back every single time. He was a one trick pony, but that acceleration made that trick near about impossible to stop.
Spot on Ryan the lunacy in the cafe holds no bounds at times. But don't let common sense get in the way. For some reason injury, confidence, loss of form, pace, belief what ever It was/is Valencia stopped trying to take his man on. You see it still he gets one on one and approaches the player and plays it sideways. Or batters the ball against the players legs. I'm not convinced he's the brightest player but he has a very useful skill set to the team and is a brilliant squad player even at his now level. It is a pity he won't get back to taking his man on and I have no belief it will come again after so much time waiting on it. Very handy player though.
We need to buy him quickly. We need him now, not on 31 jan when 4 more games have passed.
It was the number 7 shirt. Owen cursed it and whoever took it since became crap.
Feel for Southampton a bit. Can never hang on to their players.
Some serious under-rating of Tony V in this thread. There's a reason both us and Madrid wanted him when he was at Wigan.
When he was good, he was very very good. I don't think Mane is currently as good as he was.
When he was good, he was very very good. I don't think Mane is currently as good as he was.
The thing is that he was never a good dribbler and rarely used his left peg, which makes it fairly easy to defend against him. You need to have some spare distance between yourself and Tony V, so that you can catch him up if he decides to accelerate. Give that amount of space to Robben or Martial and you will be punished immediately.
What is more believable. That one day he suddenly stopped attempting the skills and crosses that made him a very good player out of the blue; or that defenders started to learn his game and therefore his skills became less and less effective, causing him to attempt them less and less.
Nowadays he barely ever attempts them because they barely ever work. The reason they barely ever work is up for debate; some might think he's lost a yard of pace or acceleration, which I disagree with as he's still rapid when he wants to be. Some may think it's purely down to confidence, although you'd expect after a fair few years at some point that to have come back. Others believe his game was never rounded enough to adapt when defenders show him only onto his amateur left foot.
I personally believe that when he first arrived no-one paid too much attention as we had far better attackers to focus on. After he won our player of the year award and was one of the best attackers in the League far more focus was put onto him. I'd attribute around 80% of his form dropping off a cliff to his game not being adaptable to this focus, with 20% being the lost confidence that came with said inadaptability.
He was still a great player while it lasted though.
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