That's the thing. I have a sympathy for normal, innocent Russians too. However I think we can all agree, it's a minority. Majority still supports the war in Ukraine, supports Putin. So the question is, how do you punish those people without affecting the innocent, normal minority? I think the idea here is to take away something that their people take for granted, which has been happening for decades - shit on EU, western countries but still be able to freely travel, holiday, work here.
Probably not by restricting their travel visas. I tend to believe that those who often spend time in western countries are more likely to be non-supporters of this war.
Why the feck do you always bring US into a discussion.
your argument is that the majority of russians are bad because they support the war. does that hold up as true in the american case? i don't think so and i think me forcing you to consider it irritates you because you know it's a contradiction. in each case, an incredibly tiny minority decided on war and then propagandized the public into accepting it and the military never has a choice, that's part of their role. they do what they're told.
Maybe. Or maybe it will have some positive effect in Russia because it will mostly affect the upper class people as mid/lower class simply could never afford travelling outside Russia. Who knows. But the fact that it brought an outrage from Russian MFA spokeswoman is a good sign IMO.
I am not American, I don't know what they propagandise or not propagandise and I have no idea why you always bring US into discussions here. You obviously hate them but you don't have to constantly repeat the same things and present it as facts. I am from a former soviet union country which was lucky enough to escape it and join the NATO/EU. My views are probably biased but I have absolutely no illusions about Russia as a country. While some western countries were busy trying to convince everyone that Russia has changed etc., we knew it was absolutely not the case. Russia, as a country in general is rotten to the core and I am sick of seeing the west trying to play nice with them while they are laughing behind our backs seeing how spineless we usually are. We are always thinking about how not to offend or God forbid create some inconveniences for Russians first rather than look after our own people who were struggling for decades under the Soviet rule or the ones that are currently dying in the Ukraine as we speak.
I think so too, it will mostly impact the elites and those living in Moscow and St. Petersburg which is what Putin is afraid of.
You clearly struggle to differentiate hitting military targets or hitting whatever as long as it touches the ground.
i don't actually. that was the point i was making. i don't hate the russians either. the two situations are absolutely parallel. two populations where the majority had no say in a war but "supported" it. it's on you how you want to think your way around it. but claiming majority complicity is problematic if you have any interest in being consistent with your logic. which means to be truthful or attempt it.
Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks
Wtf is wrong with people.
All starts with this childish 'orcs' stuff, people learn about WW2 in school and how Hitler slowly turned a whole nation against groups of people he decided were 'bad' and yet the dehumanisation of Russians is commonplace in this thread. Needs to stop, we are better than that.
When orcs stop doing orcs things, we stop calling them orcs. Very straight forward.
I probably missed that. Who is here celebrating civilians dying?
Did I miss something? I am celebrating the attack on the Crimean air base, what civilians died there?
You noticed that too, eh?
i'm assuming you're taking that personally despite my post being the opposite of a personal attack. if you read it you'll see that i said the majority in each case bears minimal responsibility for the minorty's decision to go to war and the subsequent propganda which translates that into "support". it was the opposite of an anti-us argument. i think you're smart enough to know that.
Do you know US invaded Iraq??
And you’d be wrong.
well in this case it's fairly relevant.
Well that is a lie.
So what you are saying is, no civilians died, correct? We are essentially "celebrating civilians dying" although no civilians have died. Interesting mental gymnastics.
that is obviously true. i think the point being made is that people external to the conflict, following it on twitter or wherever, are assimilating the kind of propaganda that has immense use for the ukrainian soldiers and civilians but no place beyond that.
Not only that, but “it’s not about [the airbase attack]” when that’s exactly the footage being shown.
Thanks, much clearer now, especially the bold part
I give up. It's fascinating how you always manage to add Tel Aviv or Iraq or the US to the discussion.
Wait why did you quote me?
