Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[harms]

I would be shocked if that wasn't happening from NATO on the Ukrainian side. And I would be equally shocked if the Chinese were not doing the same with the Russians.

Why would they? What would be the point of Chinese instructors/consultants if Russia doesn't use Chinese weapons (and I don't think that I've seen any reports on them doing so). With NATO it's obvious — you're sending complicated artillery, weapons, machines and most of them require specific training that only NATO instructors can provide.

Given the levels of state security in China now, way above what they were 10 years ago, I am not sure you would get many reports being leaked if Russians were being trained in China, for example.

You'll get tons, just not from the Chinese side.

 

[Frosty]

Why would they? What would be the point of Chinese instructors/consultants if Russia doesn't use Chinese weapons (and I don't think that I've seen any reports on them doing so). With NATO it's obvious — you're sending complicated artillery, weapons, machines and most of them require specific training that only NATO instructors can provide.


You'll get tons, just not from the Chinese side.

Fair enough - like I said it is an assumption on my part based on past actions of countries in conflicts and also given China's emnity towards the US, and the potential for using the Ukraine conflict to take the West's eyes off Taiwan.

If China are not getting involved and just focusing on actions like military drills off Taiwan, and threats of hard power there, then to me that is already a success of sorts for Ukraine and NATO.

 

[Frosty]

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

I don't know if it was already discussed, but a rumor has been floating around for a few days or so now about the possibility that North Korea would send "100,000 volunteers" in Ukraine. What do we know about that? It would have to be utterly stupid as those clowns have not fought in active conflict since the Cold War.

 

[Frosty]

I don't know if it was already discussed, but a rumor has been floating around for a few days or so now about the possibility that North Korea would send "100,000 volunteers" in Ukraine. What do we know about that? It would have to be utterly stupid as those clowns have not fought in active conflict since the Cold War.

I thought this was an interesting read: https://thediplomat.com/2022/08/will-we-see-north-korean-forces-in-eastern-ukraine/

But no conclusion as to probabilities.

It did say this:

"North Korean artillery officers have already operated alongside the Syrian Army in the Lebanon War and in counterinsurgency operations in the 2010s, and could be among the first personnel deployed to eastern Ukraine. Their impact would be particularly significant if deploying alongside indigenous artillery systems, which could reach the Donbas through Russian territory."

Which I was not aware of.

 

[ShoePolish]

Anyone with some spare time can give a guesstimate on possible costs on lost equipment?

 

[Gehrman]

Anyone with some spare time can give a guesstimate on possible costs on lost equipment?

I don't think anyone here is qualified to do the math but the losses are staggering.

 

[stefan92]

A quite long and interesting article speculating about the operational capabilities of the Hrim-2 missiles and if they were possible used for the airfield attack: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...-of-domestically-developed-ballistic-missiles

 

[dove]

 

[JuriM]

Haha just came to post that, excellent.

 

[Eurotrash]

Crimea river.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks

Wtf is wrong with people.

 

[dove]

Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks

Wtf is wrong with people.

They had to cut their holiday short. How sad... Not really. These people are idiots.

 

[hasanejaz88]

They had to cut their holiday short. How sad... Not really. These people are idiots.

Idiots are still innocent. Just because someone who is from the occupier is being terrorized doesn't make it funny in any way. Again, if this was switched to Israelis, Americans in Iraq then the sentiment would be very very different to anyone taking glee at their suffering.

 

[stefan92]

Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks

Wtf is wrong with people.

Going on holiday during a war in an occupied area is at least taking a risk, if not actively supporting the war effort. I am not sure if I see those as innocent, but I would definitely say they have no right to be surprised about this attack and think it is a bit hilarious that all those Russian tourists are now fleeing from Crimea.

 

[JuriM]

Idiots are still innocent. Just because someone who is from the occupier is being terrorized doesn't make it funny in any way. Again, if this was switched to Israelis, Americans in Iraq then the sentiment would be very very different to anyone taking glee at their suffering.

They deserve that for their action - enter here all the posts Russians have abused Ukrainian people all across the world and online since the war started. They need to snap out of their propaganda and get into real-world or GTFO(g) to Russia and stay there.

 

[Gehrman]

Idiots are still innocent. Just because someone who is from the occupier is being terrorized doesn't make it funny in any way. Again, if this was switched to Israelis, Americans in Iraq then the sentiment would be very very different to anyone taking glee at their suffering.

Don't know if they are being terrorised because are near by military airbase was struck during a war they started. But yeah it's not funny as such.

 

[2ndTouch]

Anyone with some spare time can give a guesstimate on possible costs on lost equipment?

The Russians surely produce their stuff at significantly lower costs than any western nation, but the numbers of lost material displayed here are indeed huge. It must be approaching the 3-digits in terms of billions by now.

 

[dove]

Idiots are still innocent. Just because someone who is from the occupier is being terrorized doesn't make it funny in any way. Again, if this was switched to Israelis, Americans in Iraq then the sentiment would be very very different to anyone taking glee at their suffering.

Right, pure innocent people. Majority of those innocent people are the same people proudly wearing their Z signs, supporting the "special military operation", mocking Ukrainians who are dying, going to Crimea holiday apartments who were taken from Ukrainian people and would flood the other Ukrainian cities during the holidays like Odesa or Kyiv if they were taken by Russia, even if every single Ukrainian there had to be killed. The same people then cry on the social media how Ukraine is making their life harder and that it's our fault they had to cut their holiday short or that some dubass got kicked out of her rental apartment. Cry me a river. Not losing any sleep over those "innocent" people.

 

[dove]

 

[Raoul]

 

[maniak]

Taking glee at the horror of innocent people? Jee, I wonder if the reaction would be the same if someone posted the same to people fleeing Tel Aviv's beaches when there are sirens going on during rocket attacks

Wtf is wrong with people.

Haven't you heard that all russians are orcs?

 

[neverdie]

personally think the meme-ification of war is sick no matter who's doing it. crimea was and is an obvious target. the country is at war. the russian government shouldn't have let its citizens vacation there, except those who historically live there and have for decades. if you're traveling to crimea for a holiday i have little sympathy for you. on the other hand, i also don't have any sympathy for people collectively rejoicing over videos with quaint holiday theme music playing over bombs being dropped. that makes you either sick or in a position where you've lost a large part of your humanity. can understand the second one from a ukrainian point of view because they'e at war. harder to understand it from a non-ukrainian point of view, which will be most people, because you aren't being bombed or invaded.

Right, pure innocent people. Majority of those innocent people are the same people proudly wearing their Z signs, supporting the "special military operation", mocking Ukrainians who are dying, going to Crimea holiday apartments who were taken from Ukrainian people and would flood the other Ukrainian cities during the holidays like Odesa or Kyiv if they were taken by Russia, even if every single Ukrainian there had to be killed. The same people then cry on the social media how Ukraine is making their life harder and that it's our fault they had to cut their holiday short or that some dubass got kicked out of her rental apartment. Cry me a river. Not losing any sleep over those "innocent" people.

when 9/11 happened, many arabs celebrated it. they did it because they were sick and tired of the us doing things in arab land. but that was obviously not right. the people in the towers weren't the ones making life difficult for the arab population. but that didn't matter because they just saw "america attacked" as a symbol of something that had to be good no matter what it actually meant. that's the same thing you're seeing here. people are happy when russians, who aren't in the military, are facing terrible conditions not because those people have done anything themselves but because they see it as "russia attacked". it's a bad look. was when 9/11 happened, is now.



the above video is basically the situation i see many people in today though at least most of those in the video are children. not sure they're aware of how wrong it is. the tel aviv exampe is a good one. throughout all the intifadas and flare ups, i've never seen palestinian advocates, who aren't living in palestine, cheer at the thought of innocent israelis potentially dying.

 

[the hea]

when 9/11 happened, many arabs celebrated it. they did it because they were sick and tired of the us doing things in arab land. but that was obviously not right. the people in the towers weren't the ones making life difficult for the arab population. but that didn't matter because they just saw "america attacked" as a symbol of something that had to be good no matter what it actually meant. that's the same thing you're seeing here. people are happy when russians, who aren't in the military, are facing terrible conditions not because those people have done anything themselves but because they see it as "russia attacked". it's a bad look. was when 9/11 happened, is now.

Are you seriously comparing the thousands of civilians getting killed in 9/11 to some Russian tourists having to cut their holiday short?

 

[dove]

when 9/11 happened, many arabs celebrated it. they did it because they were sick and tired of the us doing things in arab land. but that was obviously not right. the people in the towers weren't the ones making life difficult for the arab population. but that didn't matter because they just saw "america attacked" as a symbol of something that had to be good no matter what it actually meant. that's the same thing you're seeing here. people are happy when russians, who aren't in the military, are facing terrible conditions not because those people have done anything themselves but because they see it as "russia attacked". it's a bad look. was when 9/11 happened, is now.

I don't know what the hell are you talking about. Russian civilians were not attacked, they are not facing "terrible conditions" or "suffering" like other poster suggested (unless our understanding of those words are completely different). Cutting holiday short is not suffering, it's a minor inconvenience compared to what their country is doing in Ukraine. Destroying a base in Crimea is a big milestone for Ukraine and unlike Russia, they didn't have to destroy entire towns and kill 100s of civilians to achieve that.

 

[The Firestarter]

Is there any proof that this actually a UA strike and not some sort of sabotage/diversion? I don't think anyone saw any jets or missiles , and also don't think there are impact craters? The Russian explanation is of course as always comical.

 

[neverdie]

Are you seriously comparing the thousands of civilians getting killed in 9/11 to some Russian tourists having to cut their holiday short?

i'm comparing it to people playing war like a video game replete with memes.

i'd say this tweet encapsulates the exact point i made. she says she feels joy and then blames the kremlin for making her feel joy. at least she's aware of the contradiction.

 

[the hea]

Is there any proof that this actually a UA strike and not some sort of diversion? I don't think anyone saw any jets or missiles , and also don't think there are impact craters? The Russian explanation is of course as always comical.

There looks to be 3 big craters in this photo, the fact that all 3 seems to be the same size indicates some kind of missile strike.
Judging by the size of the craters a warhead of a considerable size must have been used, this is Kalibr, Tomahawk, ATACMS or Iskander sized craters in my opinion.

 

[Raoul]

i'm comparing it to people playing war like a video game replete with memes.

i'd say this tweet encapsulates the exact point i made. she says she feels joy and then blames the kremlin for making her feel joy. at least she's aware of the contradiction.

Contradictions are generally irrelevant in war, especially when you factor in the existential survival of a nation.

 

[nimic]

Is there any proof that this actually a UA strike and not some sort of sabotage/diversion? I don't think anyone saw any jets or missiles , and also don't think there are impact craters? The Russian explanation is of course as always comical.

A Norwegian expert said he thought the most likely explanation was sabotage, not a missile strike.

 

[neverdie]

Contradictions are generally irrelevant in war, especially when you factor in the existential survival of a nation.

absolutely. and i get why ukraine does what it has to do. those meme clips have obvious internal propaganda value for morale and they don't have the luxury of thinking too much about contradictions. it's the secondary overspill through the internet that is new. most people are not in the ukrainians' position. it's that which bothers me but ironically the ukrainians seem to understand the contradiction more than people just looking in.

 

[dove]

Wonder what some of you here think about EU visa ban for Russian citizens (some countries already started implementing it on their own because some usual suspects like Scholz has a "hard time with this idea"). Some serious suffering and terrible conditions for "innocent" Russian people too I guess.

 

[Simbo]

absolutely. and i get why ukraine does what it has to do. those meme clips have obvious internal propaganda value for morale and they don't have the luxury of thinking too much about contradictions. it's the secondary overspill through the internet that is new. most people are not in the ukrainians' position. it's that which bothers me but ironically the ukrainians seem to understand the contradiction more than people just looking in.

Not sorry.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Is there any proof that this actually a UA strike and not some sort of sabotage/diversion? I don't think anyone saw any jets or missiles , and also don't think there are impact craters? The Russian explanation is of course as always comical.

Some on twitter identified 20-25m impact crators from satelite photos. How accurate that is I'm unsure. The fact cars were blown out from 200m away at least indicates it was a mother of all bomb type of effect

 

[Simbo]

Wonder what some of you here think about EU visa ban for Russian citizens (some countries already started implementing it on their own because some usual suspects like Scholz has a "hard time with this idea"). Some serious suffering and terrible conditions for "innocent" Russian people too I guess.

Harms already covered this and I couldn't argue with his reasons against it tbh. Only helps Putin.

 

[Gehrman]

Wonder what some of you here think about EU visa ban for Russian citizens (some countries already started implementing it on their own because some usual suspects like Scholz has a "hard time with this idea"). Some serious suffering and terrible conditions for "innocent" Russian people too I guess.

I don't know. I know a few wonderful Russian people who travel and work in Europe a lot and they are completely against the war. Europe is not directly at war with Russia, we are just helping Ukraine defend itself. I'm not sure there is a precedent for this.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Wonder what some of you here think about EU visa ban for Russian citizens (some countries already started implementing it on their own because some usual suspects like Scholz has a "hard time with this idea"). Some serious suffering and terrible conditions for "innocent" Russian people too I guess.

I have complete sympathy for normal, innocent, Russians. I'm Pakistani and have to live a lot of my adult life with the stigma of being brown and a Muslim, and having an extra set of eyes that make you feel like a villain. A colleague of mine who is Russian and works in the UK was worried that his bank account might get frozen just because he's a Russian national.

Thankfully having a Canadian passport has relinquished me from the humiliation of having to go through a long visa process, but I know a lot of people who have had to go through that, and have been "randomly" stopped at airports for extra screening.

So yea, it's a stupid policy that is only used for people you want to hate. Russia is doing what other western countries have been doing for an untold number of years.

I don't know what the hell are you talking about. Russian civilians were not attacked, they are not facing "terrible conditions" or "suffering" like other poster suggested (unless our understanding of those words are completely different). Cutting holiday short is not suffering, it's a minor inconvenience compared to what their country is doing in Ukraine. Destroying a base in Crimea is a big milestone for Ukraine and unlike Russia, they didn't have to destroy entire towns and kill 100s of civilians to achieve that.

Fecking hilarious seeing people flee in fear for their lives isn't it?

 

[Mihai]

A Norwegian expert said he thought the most likely explanation was sabotage, not a missile strike.

The relative random location of the craters (in the picture above) shows that it was a missile strike, imo.

 

[stefan92]

The relative random location of the craters (in the picture above) shows that it was a missile strike, imo.

Possibly the attacks were highly accurate, saw some analysis that they exactly hit three storage areas on the site.

Nonetheless that doesn't contradict the sabotage speculation, if you manage to destroy the ammo storages you get some nice explosions.

 

[stefan92]

Fecking hilarious seeing people flee in fear for their lives isn't it?

It's a bad comparison. In Tel Aviv civilians who live there are under attack and have to flee for their lives.

In Crimea a military target was attacked and idiots suddenly realize that they are on vacation in a contested warzone. It's a completely different situation.