Probably gets paid by mentions.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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it's almost like i'm trying to see if people can understand war beyond the narrow streams of propaganda they consume. maybe by looking at ourselves and how we react when bad things happen to "us" and applying it others. that's why i used the tel aviv example and 9/11 because most of us, i assume, are western. it's a point about morality, empathy, logic, and all of that stuff.
and yes i get paid in rubles and chinese yuan to denounce preemptive war. it's highly lucrative.
Indeed. A few ruined vacations for people who chose to go on holiday in a warzone.
Thanks, much clearer now, especially the bold part
Ok, great. If I read about anyone dying we can watch the video again and cheer, it'll be swell. Because according to the tweet this is just the beginning, civilians will have to run again.
It's fecking great that the air base in Crimea has been targeted. Absolutely awesome. More to come hopefully, until Crimea is fully freed and brought back into Ukraine. It's a war and civilians are likely to die. Ukrainians are trying to regain their country, they are not invading their neighbours.
Because you saying “haha” and “excellent” has caused pearl clutching
I’m not going to try and explain why something so unbelievably simple to understand is wrong when I suspect you already know and are choosing to continue willingly.
I agree, and I'm pretty sure no one has said differently. Except some people might not agree that civilians are likely to die, I'm a bit unclear about that.
You ever stop the pearl clutching to think how many Ukrainian civilians have been killed by air strikes launched from that air base?
It’s no mystery why the Ukrainians are celebrating it being bombed, or why others are joining in with them.
To be clear first, every death in a war is one too much. That said the sad truth is that there is a war ongoing. And too speak for myself I am not celebrating or laughing about the potential death of civilians, I am laughing about the stupidity of people going on vacation in a war zone and then acting all surprised about it.
They clearly drank the Russian military supremacy koolaid
For some people having to cut short their vacation on the occupied territory where they have no right to be? Nice, wrong place to be weird at. If you are worried about civilians, worry about the thousands who have lost their lives or millions who have had to flee their homes.
Oh believe me, I agree with you.
"haha excellent" is a perfectly normal reponse to a video of missiles being fired over a beach and tourists scattering. is that the line we're taking now? the next time hamas and ij fire on israel, will those who say "haha excellent" be considered normal? will it be considered pearl clutching or hand wringing to say otherwise because the israeli state has done terrible things?
is there any evidence in this thread of anyone celebrating russian strikes? i haven't seen any but maybe there were one or two people i missed.
it's clearly insane and fair enough if you disagree but beyond the ukrainian armed forces and civilian population all i see is madness in people celebrating this kind of thing or being happy at it.
is there any evidence in this thread of anyone celebrating russian strikes? i haven't seen any but maybe there were one or two people i missed.
hamas will say the same thing i guess and it'll be fine in the future too.
it's clearly insane and fair enough if you disagree but beyond the ukrainian armed forces and civilian population all i see is madness in people celebrating this kind of thing or being happy at it.
You are comparing attacks targeting civilians with an attack on a military airbase. I can't understand how anyone can think those two are in any way comparable?
dear lordcivilians were on the beach. they ran because they didn't want to die. that's the tel aviv example. did they target civilians? no. did the civilians know that? no. could they have hit civilians even if they didn't want to? yes. that's war. it's an unnatural state of affairs for all involved. most of us are not involved so you'd expect people beyond the immediacy of that situation to demonstrate a bit more restraint. guess not.
so people did celebrate russian attacks in this thread?
Russia is waiting for people as brainwashed as you. Go there and stop posting here.
As a wider point, outlining long-held academic explanations of Russia's motivations is important.
Explaining is not justifying. Russia is a dwindling force with terrible geography, and is only kept in it's current position in the world order because of its abundance of natural resources, nuclear weapons and shady international influence. With the move to carbon neutral and a terrible demography, already paranoid Russia, whose population still perceives itself as a major world power, will become more and more aggressive.
Russia has therefore invested billions in developing and leasing warm water ports. It invaded Crimea almost immediately after their lease on Sevastopol was threatened. It is well known that it had been moving Russian-friendly individuals into the area for years, due to its paranoia about losing its grip on Ukrainian government stooges and thus Sevastopol.
I didn't think it needed to be stated, but it does not excuse Russia's actions in the slightest. You obviously should not invade countries, kill and torture tens of thousands of people, and destroy their homes because geography doesn't favour you. It is inhumane and barbaric. Even from a purely Russio-utilitarian point of view, probably ultimately futile without a huge geopolitical shift
My specific response was that Russia has, and will go to extreme lengths to retain Sevastopol, due to its strategic geographic importance. I don't think that will result in the use of nuclear weapons, as that will lose Russia some of the few friends it has left, but it could result in conscription/ proliferation of the evils we have seen so far
haha excellent response.
No clue. Maybe. We’ve banned some folks for posting dumber things.
Crimea hasn't been an active war zone, unless you want to say the whole of Ukraine is a war zone irrespective of any military action. Even during the annexation only three civilians died, it has been a surprisingly safe place to be as long as you go along with the powers that be. A lot of people on those beaches will also not be tourists. Laughing at the Russian from Moscow running for cover while having sympathy with the Russian from Crimea in the adjacent sunbed doesn't quite track for me, and if this turns into a serious attempt to regain control then we might be looking at thousands of civilian casualties like in Donbas.
I think the comparison offered earlier was actually quite good. I'm very sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, but I'm not going to laugh at Israelis hiding from rockets. I believe we have at least two active Cafites with bomb shelters in their apartments. And the Israelis have been living in a more dangerous zone than those who live in or visit Crimea, though that might change.
Let's get one thing straight shall we? There is no "lord".
There, said it.
they are certainly not lords! just someone's mates.
I’d say it would be a blunt instrument and counter-productive in that many of the Russians who want to travel to Europe are probably not the biggest fans of the regime anyway. Conversely, some factory worker in the Urals who gets all his news from state TV and believes that Putin is saving Russia from Nazis is unlikely to be planning a trip to Paris or Tuscany.
avoiding personal arguments, i think this is the point. i don't think i'd find myself laughing at rockets hitting an idf position either. in each case, you have two people, ukrainian and palestinian, whose lands have been invaded and colonized. but it's almost unthinkable to consider a situation where people laugh as israel is hit with rockets, even defensive positions in occupied territories, yet somehow that is deemed ok in this case. and that was the broader point about memes. normalizing things which aren't normal and shouldn't be. you can understand that it isn't normal and shouldn't be normalized by comparing it to cases that we are also familiar with. the internal propaganda value is a legitimate point, but it's the external normalization or hypernormalization that people have been taking issue with, not the value it has for the ukrainian defense or the ukrainian population. also, when people say "why mention the us or israel" or anywhere else, it's because we are also familiar with those cases and uphold and apply different standards. by seeing the difference between reactions you see how unnatural it is to respond with laughter. i could bring up the congo and how after independence there was a wave of reprisals that were also treated with a similar response but which were also not in any way normal or justifiable. but i'm guessing people are less familiar with that conflict being that it happened 60 years ago.
anyway that's the argument i and others were making and i think it's clear it has nothing to do with an anti-us agenda or anti-west agenda if you take time to read through the past two pages.
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Maybe you are right, I don't know. But wouldn't it make those people who are travelling to Europe (and supposedly not being the biggest fans of the regime) more vocal? I think the idea of that ban is so that it would mostly affect the upper class people who are likely to have a louder voice and would maybe put some pressure on the regime. Or maybe it's just a wishful thinking.
I don’t know for sure but I suspect that they are too few in number to influence real change, even if they became emboldened to risk prison. In the absence of a mass uprising (which I find highly unlikely), it will all depend on who controls the security apparatus, which means it would have to be a palace coup.
Now that would be one helluva raid if true
Being happy of Ukrainian strikes to a Russian military base is normal if we think:
- Russia is invading Ukraine destroying civilian infrastructure indiscriminately. Killing innocents, displace millions and kidnap millions to Ukraine
- Therefore, Many people believe that Russians are in the wrong, so they want them to lose the war
- To lose the war, they need to be beaten in the battlefield. To b beaten in the battlefield they need to destroy their military equipment, military bases and kill their army till they surrender
- Ukraine, to win the war have to avoid to be striked by the Russian military advances (bombs, missiles, etc) .
- Ukraine bombed an important military base, therefore for the reasons above, people that support Ukraine cause are very happy. The same people are not happy then the other way around happens to Ukraine. So is normal to be happy for one side and not the other
- Killing directly Ukrainian civilians striking their homes in a Ukrainian territory, is different than indirectly killing civilians because they are close to a military base in a Ukrainian occupied territory. False equivalency
- Killing directly Ukrainian civilians striking their homes in a Ukrainian territory, is different than civilians fleeing from vacations in a occupied territory subjected to be attacked. False equivalency part 2
Till here Sesame street false equivalency and why people support certain actions from one side and the other
- Russia is invading Ukraine destroying civilian infrastructure indiscriminately. Killing innocents, displace millions and kidnap millions to Ukraine
- Therefore, Many people believe that Russians are in the wrong, so they want them to lose the war
- To lose the war, they need to be beaten in the battlefield. To b beaten in the battlefield they need to destroy their military equipment, military bases and kill their army till they surrender
- Ukraine, to win the war have to avoid to be striked by the Russian military advances (bombs, missiles, etc) .
- Ukraine bombed an important military base, therefore for the reasons above, people that support Ukraine cause are very happy. The same people are not happy then the other way around happens to Ukraine. So is normal to be happy for one side and not the other
- Killing directly Ukrainian civilians striking their homes in a Ukrainian territory, is different than indirectly killing civilians because they are close to a military base in a Ukrainian occupied territory. False equivalency
- Killing directly Ukrainian civilians striking their homes in a Ukrainian territory, is different than civilians fleeing from vacations in a occupied territory subjected to be attacked. False equivalency part 2
Till here Sesame street false equivalency and why people support certain actions from one side and the other
As I wrote above, sabotage seems the most logical to me, although not directly by SOF , it is very deep behind enemy lines. Some agents that have been activated for this seems more likely . But if it turns out its by SOF ingress by helis or sea that's even more impressive, movies are made for less...
It's a bit distasteful having videos of people fleeing, including children, while shit is blowing up in the background, to the sound of silly tunes.
Reporting stuff is one thing, making silly videos with silly music and reading tons of comments (not here, on social media) about how soon the russians will suffer like the ukranians are suffering, is something quite different.
Loads of people sharing and celebrating this will also be cheering with we start registering russian civilian casualties? It will happen, it's a matter of time.
Will it be ok because the dead are orcs?
Reporting stuff is one thing, making silly videos with silly music and reading tons of comments (not here, on social media) about how soon the russians will suffer like the ukranians are suffering, is something quite different.
Loads of people sharing and celebrating this will also be cheering with we start registering russian civilian casualties? It will happen, it's a matter of time.
Will it be ok because the dead are orcs?
I have lots of shadenfreude for people fleeing their vacation place in an ocuppied territory during a war. I enjoy this videos so much. Get the feck out
Another thing would be if the videos would be of killing them
They are just losing losing their vacations because of their government decided to invade another country
The two instantaneous detonations point to it, but the similar crater and explosion sizes point to missiles, unless the base had its ammo stacked in equal measure.
I don't think we know yet what caused the fire prior to the three explosions...
Sure would be.
Do y'all think Ukraine will destroy the Crimean Bridge?
If they had the capability they'd have done so already.
Good for you. I don't like watching civilians in distress, regardless of the circumstances, much less when someone adds a silly music and uses it as social media entertainment. As I said, it's distasteful. War should never be entertainment and this one has clearly turned into one a long time ago.