Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Revan]

US should put an embargo in Russia same as in Cuba/Venezuela/Iran/N. Korea or stop bothering. Lite sanctions won't do anything at all.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Huh, that is tricky statement. If one side in "civil" war is supported by another country; is it a civil war?
Talking from personal experience here....

Two sides supported, too, which makes it more difficult. All I know is since 2014 15000 people have died there.

 

[Paxi]

No, he’s using a small minority of people (which every country has including Russia ultra nationalist within its ranks) almost as a justification for killing hundreds thousands of innocent people and invading a country in the of Europe in the 21st century. Anyone that doesn’t find that insane has big issues quite frankly. Who do you think has made Ukraine a hostile state it’s now (according to him)? Not the Russian aggression in the first place? You just have to admit that only country that is acting anything like Nazi Germany is Russia and that’s an actual fact.

I know Russia has them but Ukraine has people whom are sympathetic with fascism. I mean Bandera is a national hero. Getting rid of shit like that and having no place for parties like Svoboda would go a long way to getting Ukrainian whom are Russian leaning incorporated back into Ukraine.

I, myself, think that we’re on the precipice of something truly horrific and as someone whom was born in Russia, it’s horrible to witness. I don’t want us to be the the aggressor that we’re being but I can also point out that Ukraine has major issues as well.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Listening to Putin tonight, it seems for him this goes far beyond questions of Russian security and stability, and is fundamentally about correcting what he sees as major, trans-historical wrongs.

It’s been a clarifying moment for me anyway. Presented with the spectre of an old imperial power attempting to bully a formerly subjugated territory, I know what side I’m on.

Hitler started world war 2 this exact way

 

[Mickeza]

What American activity in Donetsk, that's some weak ass sanctioning.

The sanctions are supposed to be a deterrent. It’s not the time to go all in yet.

 

[owlo]

Every European country have issues with Nazis I don't see how is this relevant?
Can we not derail the thread please?

It's been pushed by Russian bots, so the talking heads now see it as one. Theory goes, Ukraine has lots of Nazis in their militias so they 'deserve' a spanking from Russia.

"Ukraine has literal Nazi battalions in the army" as a justification for why they don't deserve sympather was an actual comment in this thread some pages ago.

 

[Rajma]

The irony of people taking Russia's sides cause Ukraine has some Nazis, where it is Russia who has been behaving for a decade now like Nazi Germany!

And later act surprised why anti-Russian sentiment is developing in young people in Ukraine and eastern europe in general, when they’re threatening to destroy their livelihoods at every turn! No fecking shit!

 

[spiriticon]

I wonder if the West really has the power to crush the Russian economy in one fell swoop. I doubt it but I guess we'll find out soon.

 

[TMDaines]

And later act surprised why anti-Russian sentiment is developing in young people in Ukraine and eastern europe in general, when they’re threatening to destroy their livelihoods at every turn! No fecking shit!

The ridiculous thing is if you were born in the late 1980s or early 1990s, you probably were completely indifferent to Russia until recent years. The only country stoking anti-Russian sentiment is Russia itself.

 

[dove]

I bet Putin is fuming once he heard that... Laughable "sanctions" as per usual.

 

[Revan]

I wonder if the West really has the power to crush the Russian economy in one fell swoop. I doubt it but I guess we'll find out soon.

Germany is very dependent in Russia's gas, which is a problem.

 

[Paxi]

Can’t see anything else other than an annexation of DNR and LNR.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Feck your idea of an empire up your arse, Putin. Plenty of land to control and for what? Russia is at a net loss of over 2 million people since 1991 up to now. And besides, you still have to return the Kurill Islands to Japan after the forebear to your country performed an illegal invasion that took place after Japan's announcement of surrender.

Hitler started world war 2 this exact way

Exactly. It was the exact same shit about having to protect ethnic members first, and the Kremlin still has no fecking clue about why the Balkan Wars have gone as badly as they went in the 1990s. It was a nightmare of ethnic groups against ethnic groups.

I wonder if the West really has the power to crush the Russian economy in one fell swoop. I doubt it but I guess we'll find out soon.

If the US are willing to go forward with an embargo on Russia, the dominoes would fall. Never underestimate the power of an American embargo. I know people say that Russia could well turn to China to buy goods, but other anti-Western geopolitical players have not exactly been anywhere better off by doing so thus far.

 

[The Firestarter]

In 2018, the U.S. House of Representatives also passed a provision blocking any training of Azov members by American forces, citing its neo-Nazi connections. The House had previously passed amendments banning support of Azov between 2014 and 2017, but due to pressure from The Pentagon, the amendments were quietly lifted

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion#Neo-Nazism

Interestingly , the only sources linked to that article that claim lifts of bans is from the same Jerusalem post , and it has no sources links whatsoever.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I wonder if the West really has the power to crush the Russian economy in one fell swoop. I doubt it but I guess we'll find out soon.

Some countries can't afford it. Some will do, some will not. USA are not losing nothing, in matter of fact they will profit from that. On the other hand, Germany economy would be hardly hit because of north pipeline.

 

[Revan]

If the US are willing to go forward with an embargo on Russia, the dominoes would fall. Never underestimate the power of an American embargo. I know people say that Russia could well turn to China to buy goods, but other anti-Western geopolitical opponents have not exactly been anywhere better off by doing so thus far.

They should have already threatened it. It is the only sanction that would change things.

I do not think there is enough political will in the US, and even less in Europe for that to happen.

 

[Rajma]

I know Russia has them but Ukraine has people whom are sympathetic with fascism. I mean Bandera is a national hero. Getting rid of shit like that and having no place for parties like Svoboda would go a long way to getting Ukrainian whom are Russian leaning incorporated back into Ukraine.

I, myself, think that we’re on the precipice of something truly horrific and as someone whom was born in Russia, it’s horrible to witness. I don’t want us to be the the aggressor that we’re being but I can also point out that Ukraine has major issues as well.

Listen, I’m native Russian speaker myself and normally support Russian nationals across sports etc., but the way Russia has gone about things since 2008s made me despise the current regime and I truly believe that any Russian that tries to put any kind of positive spin on Putin’s actions deserves ridicule and calling out. I hope one day the democracy and peace will prevail in Russia but it’s not looking great given how much resources Kremlin has to keep the opposition at bay.

 

[Raoul]

I bet Putin is fuming once he heard that... Laughable "sanctions" as per usual.

Yeah they are toothless, but not unexpected given that they can't use the most powerful sanctions so they can save them for the actual invasion.

 

[Foxbatt]

No one can hit Russia with those kinds of sanctions that's being used against small countries. No one wants to end the world.
I think Putin has lost it or is incredibly clever.

 

[Paxi]

Listen, I’m native Russian speaker myself and normally support Russian nationals across sports etc., but the way Russia has gone about things since 2008s made me despise the current regime and I truly believe that any Russian that tries to put any kind of positive spin on Putin’s actions deserves ridicule and calling out. I hope one day the democracy and peace will prevail in Russia but it’s not looking great given how much resources Kremlin has to keep the opposition at bay.

Amen. Can’t see it though.

 

[berbatrick]

Interestingly , the only sources linked to that article that claim lifts of bans is from the same Jerusalem post , and it has no sources links whatsoever.

Which s a mainstream and best-selling paper in Israel, a centre-right paper within a right-wing country. Hardly Stalinists.

 

[harms]

Civil war? C’mon. This is utter bullshit. Nobody believes these forces are anything other than largely Russian backed, funded and recruited.

You mean you don’t believe that (willful ignorance)? It is a civil war where Russia backs one of the sides (while securing its own interests). There are many Ukrainian people who live there and are very much pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian, the sentiment that got very radicalized over the past 8 years (interestingly enough historically pro-Russian Eastern parts of Ukraine that happened to be on the Ukrainian side of that war had drastically changed their views in an opposite way). While it’s understandable that you’re interested in a bigger geopolitical conflict it doesn’t mean that you should neglect people of Donetsk & Lugansk.

 

[klsv]

While Russia and Ukraine escalate military activities in preparation for a potential war, Europe faces yet another problem: its gas reserves are significantly depleted, despite cool temperatures being far from over. According Gazprom, which cited data from Gas Infrastructure Europe, underground storage facilities were 95.3% dry as of February 17, meaning that Europe only has about 4.7% of natural gas left for the rest of winter.

A possible reason to go easy on the sanctions. Russia will know how to strike back.

 

[berbatrick]

Interestingly , the only sources linked to that article that claim lifts of bans is from the same Jerusalem post , and it has no sources links whatsoever.

From a centre-left American magazine: https://www.thenation.com/article/a...ng-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Yeah they are toothless, but not unexpected given that they can't use the most powerful sanctions to save them for the actual invasion.

Would freezing all US-based assets that belong to all prominent Russian individuals associated with the Kremlin be considered as one of those most powerful sanctions? I don't think that's quite the nuclear option (for a lack of a better term) just yet.

 

[Paxi]

Isn’t almost inevitable that Russia will cut off gas supply to Europe if the harshest possible sanctions follow?

 

[Raoul]

Would freezing all US-based assets that belong to all prominent Russian individuals associated with the Kremlin be considered as one of those most powerful sanctions? I don't think that's quite the nuclear option (for a lack of a better term) just yet.

Yes, it would closer to the more severe ones. Going after Putin himself by freezing assets related to his corruption or exposing his corruption will also be on the table.

 

[JPRouve]

Isn’t almost inevitable that Russia will cut off gas supply to Europe if the harshest possible sanctions follow?

That's probable and if I'm not mistaken Gazprom controls the gas in Algeria too. So both of the main pipelines could be shut.

 

[VorZakone]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I still don't think a full-scale invasion will happen. I can see Russian troops moving into Luhansk and Donetsk, but I don't think they'll escalate toward Kyiv.

 

[spiriticon]

Some countries can't afford it. Some will do, some will not. USA are not losing nothing, in matter of fact they will profit from that. On the other hand, Germany economy would be hardly hit because of north pipeline.

Thats the fear. If it isn't enough, than the only thing stopping Putin from rebuilding the Soviet Union (and maybe even more) would be World War 3.

And that is not good news for anybody.

 

[Paxi]

That's probable and if I'm not mistaken Gazprom controls the gas in Algeria too. So both of the main pipelines could be shut.

What would that mean to Europe? Obviously it would hurt Russia but I think he’ll probably be relying on Chinas aid. If I recall correctly, there were talks about the Chinese giving the Russians aid when the worst sanctions hit. So yeah, how badly do you think it would affect Europe?

 

[Cheimoon]

Germany is very dependent in Russia's gas, which is a problem.

A possible reason to go easy on the sanctions. Russia will know how to strike back.

Yeah, a bunch of countries are, and have low reserves, so Russia could easily and heavily retaliate. But then, Russia's economy is rather weak and small outside oil and gas, so cutting off important customers (who are likely never coming back) hurts Russia in the long term. They do have big reserves because of their oil and gas sales, but will they find new markets before those run out? I'm not sure anyone could really fully understand how things would play if sanctions would start being played out against each other.

 

[IWat]

You mean you don’t believe that (willful ignorance)? It is a civil war where Russia backs one of the sides (while securing its own interests). There are many Ukrainian people who live there and are very much pro-Russian and anti-Ukrainian, the sentiment that got very radicalized over the past 8 years (interestingly enough historically pro-Russian Eastern parts of Ukraine that happened to be on the Ukrainian side of that war had drastically changed their views in an opposite way). While it’s understandable that you’re interested in a bigger geopolitical conflict it doesn’t mean that you should neglect people of Donetsk & Lugansk.

Russia hasn't just backed them though, it has been a very active participant. Yes, there are areas of Eastern Ukraine that are very pro-Russian and there are very real Ukrainians fighting the state. But this isn't a civil war with both sides just supplying weapons, training and funding.

 

[berbatrick]

Did he (summarizing and paraphrasing here) blame Lenin for being too nice, basically?

@2cents ?

 

[IWat]

What would that mean to Europe? Obviously it would hurt Russia but I think he’ll probably be relying on Chinas aid. If I recall correctly, there were talks about the Chinese giving the Russians aid when the worst sanctions hit. So yeah, how badly do you think it would affect Europe?

Bad, really bad. Europe is already struggling with gas supplies this winter. You'd see an annual energy bill here in the UK hit £10k+ I expect, and we're not even the most exposed.

 

[the hea]

Isn’t almost inevitable that Russia will cut off gas supply to Europe if the harshest possible sanctions follow?

Russia is extremly dependant on the gas sales also. Their GDP is a little over a third compared too Germanys for example, with most of it coming from gas and oil sales.

 

[Paxi]

Thats the fear. If it isn't enough, than the only thing stopping Putin from rebuilding the Soviet Union (and maybe even more) would be World War 3.

And that is not good news for anybody.

He’s not going to do that. He’s not going after Baltic states. As I recall he didn’t particularly see them as ‘Soviet’ as he does Ukraine for instance. It would be suicide to attack NATO, when he’d already be heavily involved in Ukraine. It’s just not going to happen, unless he totally lost his marbles, which I don’t think he has.

 

[Rajma]

Amen. Can’t see it though.

Apologies for being a bit on the aggressive side towards you initially but this whole thing is just really hitting it home. By the way, Ukraine doesn’t have concentration camps for ethnic Russians, meanwhile:



There’s really only one side that shows Nazi colors in all this.

 

[Suv666]

So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I still don't think a full-scale invasion will happen. I can see Russian troops moving into Luhansk and Donetsk, but I don't think they'll escalate toward Kyiv.

I mean yeah. I'm sure Russia can live with annexing Luhansk and Donetsk and those piss poor sanctions. Putin is playing a blinder.

 

[Paxi]

Bad, really bad. Europe is already struggling with gas supplies this winter. You'd see an annual energy bill here in the UK hit £10k+ I expect, and we're not even the most exposed.

Yeah tell me about energy bills in UK but I’m under the impression that UK doesn’t receive a lot of its energy from Russia. Something like less than 10%?