Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

US says it is willing to take diplomatic steps to help Ukraine

The US has said it is willing to take diplomatic steps to help the Ukrainian government, reports Reuters.

A state department spokesperson made the comments on Saturday after the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the west should be more involved in negotiations to end the war.

“If there are diplomatic steps that we can take that the Ukrainian Government believes would be helpful, we’re prepared to take them”, the spokesperson said.

“We are working to put the Ukrainians in the strongest possible negotiating position, including by increasing pressure on Russia by imposing severe costs and by providing security assistance to help Ukrainians defend themselves.”
 
McGrathsipan said:
But the whole thing is his fault they shouldn't be there
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No doubt they had to bomb the city to preempt Ukrainian attacks.

It's amazing how many times the Russians have had to preempt Ukrainian aggression. An untrained eye would only see Russia being aggressors during this entire invasion...
 
Assume that one has a residential building/apartment complex which was destroyed by Russian tank/bomb/whatever. How does someone go about rebuilding it, once this is all over? Who pays for that stuff?
I’m assuming insurance won’t pay for property destroyed by war..?
 
iKnowNothing said:
Assume that one has a residential building/apartment complex which was destroyed by Russian tank/bomb/whatever. How does someone go about rebuilding it, once this is all over? Who pays for that stuff?
I’m assuming insurance won’t pay for property destroyed by war..?
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Most likely it would be paid by the government from the funds that they’ll get abroad on, well, rebuilding the country from the ground up. I believe that USA had already stated that it’s going to introduce Marshall Plan 2.0 when all of that it (hopefully) over.

Or, more likely, they’ll get some compensation/be offered an alternative living space.
 
ooeat0meoo said:
I'm not missing how complicated things are for Israel at the moment. Although, it's a bit disturbing that the US has spent trillions of dollars in support of Israel and now there's this situation.
It's bothered me since @Raoul posted that Frontline interview, yesterday
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The Julia Ioffe interview is going to be part of a brand new Frontline episode this coming Tuesday.
 
Money and EU companies, of course. The Germans will love it.
 
Raoul said:
NATO and the world need to prepare for how to respond if this happens. More sanctions simply won't cut it at this point. It will require a military response.
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Like Syria?

If it happens there will be claims and counter claims

I don't see the USA going with a military responce unless they can prove 100% what happened

And they would probably need investigators on the ground to do that... And considering the ground will probably be under russian occupation that seems improbable to me
 
sun_tzu said:
Like Syria?

If it happens there will be claims and counter claims

I don't see the USA going with a military responce unless they can prove 100% what happened

And they would probably need investigators on the ground to do that... And considering the ground will probably be under russian occupation that seems improbable to me
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Not taking action in Syria is obviously remembered as a mistake that shouldn't be made again. Ditto with Obama's red line comment.
 
Raoul said:
Not taking action in Syria is obviously remembered as a mistake that shouldn't be made again. Ditto with Obama's red line comment.
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I actually think the responce would not be military but instead massive diplomatic push by usa and Europe to use it to get China to isolate and sanction Russia

I think at least in the first instance that would be the responce

If China didn't respond and then putin repeated the use of chemical weapons then the USA and nato have to make decisions ... and given some countries didn't want to stop selling luxury goods or stop buying gas they might not br ready to go eyond sanctions?
 
sun_tzu said:
I actually think the responce would not be military but instead massive diplomatic push by usa and Europe to use it to get China to isolate and sanction Russia

I think at least in the first instance that would be the responce

If China didn't respond and then putin repeated the use of chemical weapons then the USA and nato have to make decisions ... and given some countries didn't want to stop selling luxury goods or stop buying gas they might not br ready to go eyond sanctions?
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That wouldn't stop Putin though. The only thing that will stop him is trouble inside Russia through an uprising or coup and/or the US getting militarily involved. His calculus so far has been "I can do what I want because I have nukes and you wouldn't dare attempt to stop me". The US needs to do the same to him by taking some sort of provocative military action that ignores Putin and seeks to protect Ukrainians. Put the pressure on Putin to respond to that at at time when he's losing the war in Ukraine and in danger of crushing pressure back home.
 
Using chemical weapons against your brotherly nation tells you all you need to know about how far Putin is willing to go.

He'd probably use them in Russia if the need arises in his sick mind. Absolute psychopath
 
Rightnr said:
Using chemical weapons against your brotherly nation tells you all you need to know about how far Putin is willing to go.

He'd probably use them in Russia if the need arises in his sick mind. Absolute psychopath
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100%. Which is why endlessly enabling him by taking military options off the table will only incentivize him to keep murdering the masses.
 
sun_tzu said:
My calculus is that China isolating him would massively increase the chances of that happening
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I don't think it would influence him much TBH. He only understands the language of violence and coercion, which means the only thing that will change his risk calculus would be a threat to his own life or getting into a hot war with the United States (which would be tantamount to him committing suicide). Ultimately, Putin is all about his own self-preservation and the only way to influence him would be a threat to his own survival.
 
Raoul said:
NATO and the world need to prepare for how to respond if this happens. More sanctions simply won't cut it at this point. It will require a military response.
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Not if that response involves direct combat between NATO and Russians forces. The red line is a Russian attack on a NATO country - and there it must remain. As terrible for Ukraine as this may be, we cannot risk a nuclear WWIII. This is the hard truth.

Russia is losing this war. Chemical attacks will not change the outcome.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Not if that response involves direct combat between NATO and Russians forces. The red line is a Russian attack on a NATO country - and there it must remain. As terrible for Ukraine as this may be, we cannot risk a nuclear WWIII. This is the hard truth.

Russia is losing this war. Chemical attacks will not change the outcome.
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I think its inevitable at this point, unless of course NATO are ok with standing by with a genocide in Europe.

(Disclaimer: Genocide is genocide wherever it takes place, but far more conspicuous when it takes place next door).
 
If Ukraine have intelligence that Russia will carry out the chemical attack, can they not preempt? Obviously, intelligence might not stretch that far but just a thought.
 
Rightnr said:
If Ukraine have intelligence that Russia will carry out the chemical attack, can they not preempt? Obviously, intelligence might not stretch that far but just a thought.
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Preempt what ? Launch their own chemical attack against Russian soldiers in Ukraine ?
 
Rightnr said:
I meant prevent or stop the Russians.
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The information is apparently coming from the US side that the Russians are going to do it and blame the Ukrainians having done it to the Russians. It would be hard to stop something like that since they don't know how the attack would take place, whether by a dropped bomb from a bomber or otherwise.
 
Raoul said:
Preempt what ? Launch their own chemical attack against Russian soldiers in Ukraine ?
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Raoul said:
The information is apparently coming from the US side that the Russians are going to do it and blame the Ukrainians having done it to the Russians. It would be hard to stop something like that since they don't know how the attack would take place, whether by a dropped bomb from a bomber or otherwise.
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Wouldn't rule out putin sacrificing a few dozen of his own conscripts and doing a chemical attack on them and saying it was Ukraine
 
The Firestarter said:
How? That means unilaterally bombing their missile sites.
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hellhunter said:
Which would be fair game for Ukraine, if they could get close enough
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The above is what I had in mind since I imagine they'd launch from within Ukraine.

If not, it's another example of how asymmetric this war is. I can keep hitting you until I kill you but you cannot respond.
 
Rightnr said:
Using chemical weapons against your brotherly nation tells you all you need to know about how far Putin is willing to go.

He'd probably use them in Russia if the need arises in his sick mind. Absolute psychopath
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Has he used it at Chechnya?
 
Rightnr said:
Using chemical weapons against your brotherly nation tells you all you need to know about how far Putin is willing to go.

He'd probably use them in Russia if the need arises in his sick mind. Absolute psychopath
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Well he novichok’d Navalny, so already has to be fair.

And you’re right, he doesn’t give a feck. Absolute top cnut.
 
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