Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

The worst thing is that cultural isolation works for Putin, not against him. He's been trying to achieve that for years and the world now making it even easier for him.

I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.
There's been plenty of that to be fair even though for the most time I'd use the word "biased" instead of dishonest/manipulative which infers conscious and malicious lying. Debunking that seems a bit counter-productive though, especially with an incomparable shower of Orwellian shit that the Russian media are putting out there daily.
 
What's really dangerous is how this rhetoric is often a precursor to a bigger conflict.

Set the population against the 'enemy' and it's so much easier to take the pain, approve wartime 'sacrifices' and spending on weapons.

Then again, there has been a trend in the West for a long time to cancel dissenting opinions which has been the reason that Putin has got so far as well. Sometimes the truth is not convenient.

Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.


There are horrific war crimes happening in Ukraine.
As someone who was very involved in being a dissenting voice in America (Not getting into all that here), the only gains Putin has made is with the dumbest of the left and right.
In addition, I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.

Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.
 
It's a "funny" situation: I'm not sure you could really blame the Russians for attacking a weapon's transport to their opponents in this war (as long as it happens inside the actual war zone at least), but then Nato couldn't just say "fair enough" either if it actually happened.
US shipping being attached was a major contributing factor to our joining WWII, might be the beginning of another war here.
 
No. It is all a consequence of Russia waging a needless war of aggression upon a peaceful, sovereign state against a backdrop of concocted lies and false flags.

The same as people in the West face energy hikes and fuel poverty, a talented Russian pianist gets his concerts cancelled. For the people whom are not directly affected by the fighting, life sucks for us all in many ways, but we are not the victims, and neither is he.

No-one wants to be 'entertained' by someone who is associated with a terror state. I am pretty sure Germans weren't in high demand for shows during the II World War.

Let's put this in perspective: he is being asked not to play his piano for the foreseeable. He and his supporters can cry about that on Twitter while people in Ukraine dig mass graves or watch on helplessly as corpses are eaten by dogs. They are the victims.
The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).
 
Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.
Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.

Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

(I'm dealing with a winter blizzard here, likely will lose power. Someone else please deal with these stupid questions.)
 


Israel ech? We should really be treating them the same as Russia. Total isolation.


It should be pointed out that Bennett has denied advised Zelenskyy to surrender to Russia. Indeed, a senior Israeli official says that "Israel is suggesting that Russia should assess events more adequately"

Re. the Iron Dome missile defence, this point may be moot because I'd imagine (but don't know) that it takes very considerable to training to operate - training that the Ukrainians don't have - to be able to use it.

Holodomor happened 90 years ago - it's hardly relevant to the here-and-now of Russia's invasion

The sanctions issue is a fair point.
 
But they will be driven through the polish borders, if Russia attacks a convoy in polish soil, it would be an attack on NATO.

Yes, but I doubt Russia is threatening that.
 
Re. the Iron Dome missile defence, this point may be moot because I'd imagine (but don't know) that it takes very considerable to training to operate - training that the Ukrainians don't have - to be able to use it.
I think that denial happened years ago.
 
The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).

Exiled German Scientists didn't do too badly either.

Agreed with you that these moves only serve to strengthen Putin's group on Russia further and potentially drive even some of those Russians who don't support him into his arms eventually.
 
Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

Who argued against sanctions? In fact I’m all for them.

I was talking about the Discussion point at hand, which is the outright condemnation we’re seeing against everyone Russian regardless of their opinions. The calls for people being removed from their roles purely because they’re Russian.

As I’ve said numerous times it’s very important that it’s clear that the problem is against the Russian state, banning a pianist who’s openly protesting against the war because he happens to have been born in Russia helps Putin in that he can paint the western world as Russophobic. Honestly seeing some of the rhetoric we’ve seen in the last two weeks it’s hard to argue that sentiment isn’t growing massively, which should worry absolutely everyone.
 


Israel ech? We should really be treating them the same as Russia. Total isolation.


The Israelis are obviously going to play the fence like a stratovarius to maximize their relationships with as many international players as possible. Therefore not taking a strong position against Putin, however wrong, is not entirely nonsensical from their perspective. Criticism of Putin would obviously also draw an unneeded spotlight to their own policies next door. I think this posture will hurt them in the long run and Bennett will end up looking as much a grandstanding geopolitical clown as Macron has.
 
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The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).

I'm actually more interested in that. Again if we take the example of Svidler, who rightfully hasn't been cancelled. He made his statement while living in Russia, the same applies to Nepo, in practice aren't they taking more risks than others? Chess is a popular game around the world and they are pretty big names.
 
The Israelis are obviously going to play the fence like a stratovarius to maximize their relationships with as many international players as possible. Therefore not taking a strong position against Putin, however wrong, is not entirely nonsensical from their perspective. Criticism of Putin would obviously also draw an unneeded spotlight to their own policies next door. I think this posture will hurt them in the long run and Bennett will end up looking as much as a grandstanding geopolitical clown as Macron has.

They have to deal with the Russian military right next door in Syria, and require a good relationship with Moscow to maintain their freedom of action there. That’ll be Jerusalem’s number one immediate priority.
 
Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.




Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.
Well at least Garry Kasparov is respected in the US. The guy who wanted to bomb not only Baghdad but also Damascus, Riyadh and Teheran in 2002 before the Iraq invasion. He was good at chess so we must listen to his opinions.
 
Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

(I'm dealing with a winter blizzard here, likely will lose power. Someone else please deal with these stupid questions.)

I assume he's talking about Svidler, who @JPRouve mentioned above.

That poster didn't mention sanctions in their post so I'm not really sure why you've said that but regardless, it isn't actually accurate to state they're hugely popular throughout the world. They're popular in the global North; North America, Europe, Australasia, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan.

Central and South America, Africa, almost all of the rest of Asia (ie 'The Global South', rather more conspicuous in their absence).

Interested in how you would have wanted to be treated as an American considering what you're arguing on here now regarding Russians and your own beliefs on the actions of the US government in the past (if I'm thinking of the right poster).
 
They have to deal with the Russian military right next door in Syria, and require a good relationship with Moscow to maintain their freedom of action there. That’ll be Jerusalem’s number one immediate priority.

Good point. They also have do carefully navigate the reality that Soviets/Russians have historically been sympathetic to Palestinian statehood and wouldn't want that sentiment to entrench any further.
 
I'm actually more interested in that. Again if we take the example of Svidler, who rightfully hasn't been cancelled. He made his statement while living in Russia, the same applies to Nepo, in practice aren't they taking more risks than others? Chess is a popular game around the world and they are pretty big names.
Yes they do. No one cares about big names anymore even though I don't thing that anyone of note had been prosecuted for the new "anti-fake law" or for the law that criminalises "the discreditation of actions of the Russian military". For example the Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin had said that all cultural workers (including famous singers, actors etc.) that signed anti-war open letters or stated their disagreement with Putin's actions have to be ostracised for being collaborators and traitors to the nation. Most of those who had an option of leaving the country, did — even someone like Ivan Urgant, who had his own Saturday Night Live-esque show on the biggest Russian federal channel (he never participated in pro-Putin propaganda to be fair and he was even allowed to make very direct jokes about our government/politics before the invasion. He's been taken off the air & is now apparently in Israel, although it hasn't been confirmed). Maxim Galkin, a very conformist comedian who is very popular in elderly demographics had his concerts cancelled including anti-Galkin demonstrations (most likely staged by the state) at the airport where he had landed before the show — again, after publishing an anti-war statement around the beginning of all of this mess. And those are bigger names than Chess GMs that aren't really that well-known to the general public.

The new laws have only been introduced for about a week, I think, and there have already been hundreds of criminal cases opened — it's only a matter of time before they'll take some big name in as an example.
 
I've just arrived in Turkey today with my football team. We're here to train for a week. I noticed some lads with crests on their shirts in Cyrillic. I'm pretty sure it's the Mariupol crest. I'm wondering if they've evacuated athletes.
 
I don't like this trend of blaming Russians (and Belarusians) for the atrocities of Putin, especially ones that have chosen to make their home outside of Russia and have seemingly no connection to the Putin regime.

As for the above, don't Russians need visas to reside in Germany and have to reapply regularly for renewal? It just smacks of overdoing it and literally cancelling a whole nation.
Of course, you already need these documents when you open a bank account.
 
BBC reports:

"Zelensky ... claims that around 500-600 Russian troops surrendered to Ukrainian forces on Friday."
 
They have to deal with the Russian military right next door in Syria, and require a good relationship with Moscow to maintain their freedom of action there. That’ll be Jerusalem’s number one immediate priority.

I'm not missing how complicated things are for Israel at the moment. Although, it's a bit disturbing that the US has spent trillions of dollars in support of Israel and now there's this situation.
It's bothered me since @Raoul posted that Frontline interview, yesterday
 
Does Putin think people actually believe what he says, outside Russia?

The trolls will believe it, as well as some who have fallen into that particular rabbit hole, but I think those statements will mean nothing. He's hardly going to say to them 'I'm in the wrong here, killing civilians and levelling cities is bad'.

The concerning thing would be if he himself believes this, which I wouldn't be surprised if he did.
 
Does Putin think people actually believe what he says, outside Russia?
I don't think we'll ever going to know. It's really hard to understand how far does his personal belief go. Does he believe all of that/some of that himself? Considering that he lives in an information bubble where the same propaganda that he's been feeding his people are being circulated 24/7 I wouldn't be very surprised if he does believe that, at least partially. By all accounts he seemed to believe that his military would be welcome at least in the Eastern regions — or at least that the opposition won't be as homogenous.
 
Do use google-translate to read that, it seems to work kinda okay. It's an article about the global mobilisation that takes place in DNR (DPR) at the moment.

https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/20...stvo-v-xxi-veke-i-delaiut-s-nami-chto-khotiat
A girl from Donetsk contacted the editors of Novaya Gazeta. For security reasons, we cannot name her (audio recordings of the monologues are at the disposal of the editors). She told how forced mobilization was organized in the “DPR”. They have already taken away all the guys whom she personally knew, her university classmates, relatives, and acquaintances. None of them had served in the army before. From some there are reports that they are already in Ukraine. We publish the monologues of a girl and her friends who are faced with mobilization.

“At first, even before [the “special operation”], before the evacuation, they began to take away all state employees. Those who worked in the Central Bank, who worked as teachers, lecturers, who worked in tax and other structures. More than 50% of the men were taken there. On some - 100%, where they were not vital. In the bank, for example, only the male collectors were left, and the rest - up to the bosses - were all taken away.

Then, already during the evacuation, they began to pick up students. It didn't seem like it was necessary. You had to come to the dean's office and confirm that you are in Donetsk. My classmate went in this way, he was told to come to the military registration and enlistment office at the place of residence, to confirm that he was in the full-time department, but it all ended with the fact that they were taken to the training camp a week and a half ago and since then they have not returned. Those students who tried to leave for Russia together with the evacuees were not released by the “DPR”. We have only three checkpoints with Russia. All cars are checked. If there is at least one man from 18 to 55, they are sent to prison and put into something like a paddy wagon and taken to mobilization points. There are no options to leave.
Men, like dogs, are caught in the streets.

Even if a man just goes to the store, he can be stopped and asked for documents. If there are no documents, then they are taken to the police department to establish their identity. If there is, but there is no mark from the military registration and enlistment office that he is not subject or has already undergone military training, then they are taken immediately to the mobilization point. There are no men in the city now. Those who have not yet been taken away - there are very few of them - they sit at home and do not go out in principle.

.... more ->
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/20...stvo-v-xxi-veke-i-delaiut-s-nami-chto-khotiat
 
I don't think we'll ever going to know. It's really hard to understand how far does his personal belief go. Does he believe all of that/some of that himself? Considering that he lives in an information bubble where the same propaganda that he's been feeding his people are being circulated 24/7 I wouldn't be very surprised if he does believe that, at least partially. By all accounts he seemed to believe that his military would be welcome at least in the Eastern regions — or at least that the opposition won't be as homogenous.
im also thinking about the press releases and spokespeople, the ludicrous things they say to the world to save face. im conflicted whether its high intelligence or high idiocy to think what works in Russia works for the onlooking world
 
Theres a stunning video report of Kharkiv from BBC's Quentin Sommerville on Twitter. He patrols the city with the Ukrainian army.

The video is 6 minutes long and also shows some dead bodies, so won't post it here
Also on BBC website.
 
I doubt your doubt, when it comes to Putin and his minions. The Russian foreign minister has said that they would look at military responses to any other country shipping stuff in

Looking at doing something and actually doing it are two different things.
 
I doubt your doubt, when it comes to Putin and his minions. The Russian foreign minister has said that they would look at military responses to any other country shipping stuff in

'Look at' the same way they are looking at nuclear options. It won't happen.

Attacking a Nato convoy would have to be done from the air, and so be the likely tipping point for a no fly zone. The war becomes unwinnable for Russia from that point on.
 
Yes they do. No one cares about big names anymore even though I don't thing that anyone of note had been prosecuted for the new "anti-fake law" or for the law that criminalises "the discreditation of actions of the Russian military". For example the Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin had said that all cultural workers (including famous singers, actors etc.) that signed anti-war open letters or stated their disagreement with Putin's actions have to be ostracised for being collaborators and traitors to the nation. Most of those who had an option of leaving the country, did — even someone like Ivan Urgant, who had his own Saturday Night Live-esque show on the biggest Russian federal channel (he never participated in pro-Putin propaganda to be fair and he was even allowed to make very direct jokes about our government/politics before the invasion. He's been taken off the air & is now apparently in Israel, although it hasn't been confirmed). Maxim Galkin, a very conformist comedian who is very popular in elderly demographics had his concerts cancelled including anti-Galkin demonstrations (most likely staged by the state) at the airport where he had landed before the show — again, after publishing an anti-war statement around the beginning of all of this mess. And those are bigger names than Chess GMs that aren't really that well-known to the general public.

The new laws have only been introduced for about a week, I think, and there have already been hundreds of criminal cases opened — it's only a matter of time before they'll take some big name in as an example.

Thanks. That's worrying.
 
I've just arrived in Turkey today with my football team. We're here to train for a week. I noticed some lads with crests on their shirts in Cyrillic. I'm pretty sure it's the Mariupol crest. I'm wondering if they've evacuated athletes.
Many Ukrainian football teams have their preseason done in Turkey around this time.