Clearly not it seems
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Clearly not it seems
Isn't the issue that Ukraine can't take any jets but only the ones they are currently able to use? So the point you are responding to doesn't really work whether we are talking about the US or most EU countries.
BBC saying that serving British Troops are going missing and heading to Ukraine and if they were captured or found by Russia. Russia would use this as proof to escalate against the west.
I know. I was just flipping the “America, oil, lulz” angle back around, since what they do have is natural gas.
They are trolling at this stage.
US claimed that Yugoslavia is preparing to do genocide in Kosovo -> Russia claims that Ukraine is doing genocide in Donbas.
US claimed that Iraq was developing weapons of massive destruction -> Russia claims that they have found evidence that Ukraine has developed weapons of massive destruction.
OK, sorry misunderstood what you were getting at
No worries
I'm just saying Russians aren't wilfully and knowingly against democracy because they don't have democracy
An obvious example, North Koreans right now are probably close to 100% against democracy
Russians obviously have more freedom to chose than that, but Putin controls the flow of information so they pretty much think what he wants them to
Poland have the jets but won't give them to Ukraine directly.
Poland also want new Jets as replacements.
America refuse to supply or exchange either, as it could prompt Putin to escalate.
I would have made the same remark if Ukraine were open to immediately take US build jets. Because it's kind of true but it also applies to british and French oil lobbies.
Not sure it will happen, but I think it could actually be a smart move in a way. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but i believe Russia doesn't really have any troops west of Kyiv. Imposing a no fly zone over the whole of Ukraine would be fairly big escalation with potentially huge consequences. Simply starting in West Ukraine would be a much smaller escalation as it wouldn't necessarily lead to direct confrontation with Russian troops immediately, hence making it harder for Putin to escalate from there.
Proverbially it would be NATO dipping their toes in the water to test the Russian response, and free up some Ukrainian forces to concentrate on the active war areas. At the same time, if Russia don't have the balls to immediately retaliate, extending the no fly zone to more areas in the country, when half of the country is already one, would seem a smaller escalation than doing it all at once.
Of course it would still be a fairly big step, and Putin probably wouldn't respect the no fly zone over Kyiv for instance. But it probably would give him a headache as to how to react.
The US refused to have them fly to Rammstein AFB and then fly into Ukraine. We didn’t refuse to replace Polish jets if they gave them to Ukraine directly.
Nato would have taken out Russia years ago if it wasnt for their nukes. They are not playing softly softly for sht and giggles. They just dont want to start world war 3.
Poland are in a similar situation, they need the jets themselves and can't take any replacement jets quickly. And logically Poland don't want to fly jets into Ukraine, they are scarred of Russia, as rumoured the US could allow the jets to be exchanged in Ramstein but that's very close to a declaration of war and no amount of gas would see them do that currently and on their own.
Why even make it public that they might supply jets. Just keep it top secret. Then all of a sudden Ukraine attacks with a sht loads of jets and the Russians will just think they kept them in reserve.
The polish proposal makes sense. If the jets are given directly by Poland, it could be perceived by Putin as an act of war and he might retaliate against Poland. Leading to the escalation everyone is trying to avoid.
But if the US was the one giving away jets from its base, then Putin would be less likely to attack the US.
I don't think you could move 20+ jets from their usual airbases to Ukraine without Russian intelligence monitoring it.
The US have confirmed the facilities, too, which is more than Bush and Blair got in Iraq. Though it would seem they are benign. Nuland testified on it yesterday. It was a weird testimony, too, because it gives credence to Russian propagandists (why bother?).
Can't find raw CSPAN footage.
There is a also a human cost that is not comparable to what they have been doing in Ukraine. I have seen one of the expert that is often twitted in this thread make a similar point but Russia's struggles have been in term of logistic because the higher ups seamingly tried to hide the invasion, they are also not carpet bombing or going actually as heavily as they could if it was an open conflict without care for optics.
What we are seeing here is not the strength of Russia's army but the weakness of their strategy when it comes to be subtle and patient.
But even then it wouldn't be as straightforward as it sounds, right? The replacement jets would need to fit with polish pilots training, if they were using MIGs then it would take weeks/months to be ready what is Poland supposed to do in the mean time? Surely it would mean that someone will have to "give" them pilots and jets during that period of time which is part of NATOs missions but still needs preparation and agreements.
They bombed a civilian corridor according to HRW who have an impeccable record. That's worth noting.
Flying NATO jets directly into the skies over Ukraine is still going to be seen as a no-no.
They need to do what the US and UK did to get around the Neutrality Act and wheel the MiGs over the border.
Replacements would be F16, which the Poles already have.
Personally I think it’s staged, as you say why make it public - the only benefit is it portrays NATO as not escalating.
400 Empty Buses! and they didn't want to get in.....2:32 is where it all unravels
I firmly believe with all the crap that's going on the worst is yet to come. It is going to escalate further without a doubt. It's truly a miserable era to be alive.
So, is this guy lying or is he just clueless?
Bloody hell, I hope you're a pessimist.
Except Bush never found the evidence.
If this is true, then that is not fair on Poland, as they are close to Russia and takes in millions of refugees. To also expect them to both donate their fighter jets AND take all the risk alone does not seem right. And even if they got F-16s, a lot of pilots are specialized in the russian fighter jets and will need extensive training I guess.
I too have thought that this can not be true. It seems like it is staged or something. They must have had talks about this and know each others point of views.
They may have them but the pilots aren't necessarily all used to pilot them?
Lying of course. But towards the end he, confused himself and then questioned why they won't travel north EG: Russia.
I am really super uncomfortable about the idea of us giving away almost half of our fleet, without replacement, and potentially risking starting a war with Russia.
A war in which NATO will not protect us either as by flying our planes into the war we will not be considered under article 5 anyway. So we would virtually have to fight Russia with almost no air support because we've just given away large chunk of already limited jets.
Did they make the discovery whilst the Ukranians were too busy bombing themselves?
In before they publish the report and it's dated back to January 2022.
I personally think this is dumb. Putin knows where they are coming from regardless. And would respond the same way if it went from Poland the Germany to Ukraine vs Poland to Ukraine.
And that response would be shouting at the wind
It is huge difference. If Polish jets go from Poland straight into Ukraine, and Russia retaliate, NATO will not have to protect Poland. If they go through US, and Poland gets attacked as retaliation, NATO will be obliged to protect us. It's a massive difference.
The majority of the PAF’s fighter squadrons are F16, and they’ve got about a dozen F16 as trainers. They’ve been transitioning away from the MiG as-is and moving to a fighter wing of F16 and F35 only, that’s why they’re willing to offer them to Ukraine.
Western unity breaking down right before our eyes on planes, refugees and fuel.
Putin is laughing.
Just stop with this plane donation idea. Its not workable without them flying off from a NATO base. Since we don't want to poke the Russian bear under any circumstances, let's just quell this talk.
Putin is laughing.
Just stop with this plane donation idea. Its not workable without them flying off from a NATO base. Since we don't want to poke the Russian bear under any circumstances, let's just quell this talk.