Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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It already does?
Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't think banning them is wise. Making them play without flag and anthem is the fairest solution. Especially considering that those events will be televised in Russia, and the fans in stadiums etc can put many banners/choreography about the war. In a country that is ruled by massive propaganda news, this would be one of the very few ways that the truth can be shown in Russian TVs.
Suggesting banning people from partaking in sports is a slippery slope to internment camps.
What sanctions do you suggest that avoids hurting the civilian population of Russia but puts pressure on e.g. oligarchs?
Demonisation and punishment of all Russians and saying tough shit those other Russians are causing war is exactly what leads there if left to grow yes. The japanese world over had to endure such racism for decades and muslims more recently with ISIS.
As i said neutral flag them all with the exception of sports with actual nation medals.
If we do end up at war with Russia I don't have enough faith in UK and US politics that we wouldn't start putting Russians in interment camps.
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I think there's a distinction to be made between A) banning Russians and B) banning people either competing under the Russian flag or seen to otherwise represent Russia or with some strong connections to the Putin regime. The problem is in F1 there is still a nationalistic aspect. You drive for a team, but compete under your flag with your anthem played on the podium should you win.
Different terrains ….jungle and mountain are difficult terrain, being far better suited to the opposition
I agree. Russian football players for example should be able to play for their (non-russian) clubs, but their national and professional teams should be banned.
In some sports the athletes compete for their country by default (cross country skiing for example), and in those cases it's simple. They shouldn't be allowed to compete.
The UK sanctions are going well. Big announcements, little action, government and media paralysed by lawyers working for oligarchs, and now oligarchs looking to sell all of their big assets before the sanctions take effect.
What do you expect from the Tory scum?
Guy was president between 2010-2014 before getting deposed in Euromaidan and fleed to Russia, who welcomed him with open arms and refused to give him up.
Also ran 2004 presidential elections, with his opponent getting poisoned by dioxin. Main suspect was then head of ukrainian intelligence agency Volodymyr Stasyuk. He also fled, can you guess where?
Isn't Iraq quite flat, generally speaking?
I once joked with my wife about Ukraine somehow voting Yanukovych back in one day even after Euromaidan, given he was also ousted in the Orange Revolution. It's not so funny any longer.
Which they will in return for a nice backhander and donation to the usual coffers.
It's understandable as the events leads to many emotions that are the very end of the spectrum and it's absolutely normal as it a tragedy.
Putin isn't using the military equipment to the full extend. Might be because he expected less resistance, but if he uses more ballistic power the amount of civilian casualties will be much much higher.
There is a stark difference of how this is monitored compared to Georgia for example.
Unfair is unfair. I have Russian friends who live here in Prague and have had their bank accounts blocked, supervisors refusing to help with their thesis in university, seeing Russians = Killers posters on the rallies for peace that they themselves go to, having visa issues (some might be deported if things don’t subside). They’re not supportive of Putin - there’s a reason they don’t live in Russia. What else are they supposed to do in this situation?
It’s absolutely tragic what Ukrainian people are going through. The second most unfairly affected group in this situation are the Russians though.I don’t think it’s wrong to acknowledge this.
What is the endgame for west with these sanctions and sending arms to Ukraine? While i supported it in the beginning it is starting to look very dangerous.
We are just cornering Putin more and more. No matter how west tries to paint that Russia failed so far noone is denying that Russia went easy on Ukraine in the first days.
Western leaders and especially people from USA acknowledged that and even stated that violence from Russia is likely to increase which we already seeing little by little but we are definitely far away from extreme measures.
People in Russian are not gonna overthrow Putin because he will take extreme actions before that happens.
The only way for me this stops escalating is to sit down with Russia and negotiate some kind of the deal.
West and Russia should really look into making Ukraine a buffer state, set up the government that is agreed with both sides and be watched on from both sides. Basically make Ukraine into Switzerland between Russia and Nato. But I'm afraid that west is never gonna back down to that point and it could be disastrous. Especially with the public support people on the west are giving to western states that option is looking less and less likely.
Not going through the negotiation route leads could result in my opinion in:
-Russia takes over Ukraine easily in next days/weeks but west doesn't acknowledge and it leads in more tension between west and Russia especially because of the impacts of the sanctions on Russian people (not likely that Russia will take over easily anyway)
-Ukraine keep resistance strong and impact of sanctions from the west and Ukraine getting better and better equiped leads Putin to take more and more extreme measures to end this as fast as possible (the most likely scenario)
In both cases tensions will increase and in both cases we will keep cornering Putin and it's very dangerous proposition which could lead into global catastrophy.
And sadly I really can't see any other outcome.
We are just cornering Putin more and more. No matter how west tries to paint that Russia failed so far noone is denying that Russia went easy on Ukraine in the first days.
Western leaders and especially people from USA acknowledged that and even stated that violence from Russia is likely to increase which we already seeing little by little but we are definitely far away from extreme measures.
People in Russian are not gonna overthrow Putin because he will take extreme actions before that happens.
The only way for me this stops escalating is to sit down with Russia and negotiate some kind of the deal.
West and Russia should really look into making Ukraine a buffer state, set up the government that is agreed with both sides and be watched on from both sides. Basically make Ukraine into Switzerland between Russia and Nato. But I'm afraid that west is never gonna back down to that point and it could be disastrous. Especially with the public support people on the west are giving to western states that option is looking less and less likely.
Not going through the negotiation route leads could result in my opinion in:
-Russia takes over Ukraine easily in next days/weeks but west doesn't acknowledge and it leads in more tension between west and Russia especially because of the impacts of the sanctions on Russian people (not likely that Russia will take over easily anyway)
-Ukraine keep resistance strong and impact of sanctions from the west and Ukraine getting better and better equiped leads Putin to take more and more extreme measures to end this as fast as possible (the most likely scenario)
In both cases tensions will increase and in both cases we will keep cornering Putin and it's very dangerous proposition which could lead into global catastrophy.
And sadly I really can't see any other outcome.
Yes I believe so. Definitely no expert in these matters, but imagine being mainly desert is also a difficult terrain.
It will highly depend on which media we are talking about here. There is no such a thing as the "western media" here as different countries will be affected to a different degree here. In the US and UK this topic might lose steam with time but in the eastern European countries and the major players of the EU this will be a hot topic as long as this war lasts.
I don´t see German media looking to a different angle anytime soon for example. This war changes too much here. Starting from economical ramifications (losing a major foreign market, spike in costs for both the industry and population), the entire energy debate (having to compensate for the eventual loss of gas and oil), the foreign and security policy (arguably the biggest shift in this regard in the entire post WWII history) to the humanitarian consequences, especially the large number of refugees who fill filter into the country, because Poland won´t be able to house them all (nor should they be expected to) and the obvious way for them will be westwards. Given the large Russian population that lives in Germany this might become a inner political topic aswell, although so far pretty much any Russian organisation in the country has condemned Putin and the government has been very thourough in separating this war from the actual Russian population.
It was so fecking predictable. The worry is that Russian-influence will only increase in London, not reduce, given how there is an entire industry set up to obfuscate their wealth, especially if the EU and the US get really serious in their jurisdictions.
What? They had their bank accounts blocked just because they are Russian?
Airbus and Boeing stopping delivery of spare parts and technical support for Russian planes
Just goes to show deepness of russian grip into other country politics, and lengths they will go to, to keep it their way, not just in countries around them. Yesterday, the only westerner not to vote on EU help to Ukraine in euro parliament was latvian member Zdanoka, long accused of working towards pro russian goals, yet there's no security mechanisms, that have prevented this from happening and giving her a seat on the parliament.
I'm sure whole brexit, from Nigel Farage to voter influence to tory party, was laced with russian influence.
I imagine they have a Russian bank card which basically is useless now except to withdraw rubles in Russia.
You kinda forgot to factor in what the Ukrainians want in your little scenario here.
The end game is simply that a free and democratic sovereign nation retains its freedom and sovereignty without "the west" or Russia deciding for them if they should be a buffer state etc.
Their Russian bank accounts. Can’t access them from here right now.
Yes, but there is no other way. Leave him get Ukraine easily, in 2 years it is gonna be Baltics, in 4 Romania/Bulgaria, and in 6 Poland. Also, China would get Taiwan.
The nuclear force is called deterrent because that is that purpose. All actors should know that using it, is the end. It is not something to threaten and get some advantage (land/invading countries etc), cause that just makes the bully threat more. I guess next time it is gonna be Poland is part of Russia and if anyone resists, I nuke the world.
So, I think to prevent a nuclear war, the West should actually risk going into a nuclear war.
We definitely need to do more on nuclear disarmament. We can't have despots wanting to blow up the world every 50 years.
Zelenskyy's Telegram channel is now starting to post all of his addresses with an English subtitled version. Not sure why these are not being posted to Youtube.
https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official
Also his speech to the EU Parliament brought at least two English-language interpreters to tears yesterday. Here is one, around 4:00:
https://t.me/V_Zelenskiy_official
Also his speech to the EU Parliament brought at least two English-language interpreters to tears yesterday. Here is one, around 4:00:
Youre missing the point somewhat. Ukraine isn’t allowing these non-white foreign nationals to leave. If you can make arrangements to get home in Poland or Moldova or wherever but Ukraine aren’t physically letting you into these countries then what?
Again, these are foreign nationals on work or student visas. They have a right to be there but also the same right to leave. You need to stop making excuses for what is clearly a racist policy. Indian embassy were able to charter flights home from Poland…for the students that made it there. Loads didn’t. In fact one Indian student has died at the hands of Russian shelling. You can’t not let these people through and blame bureaucracy.
here’s some further examples:
Absolutely. These events should be a wake up call to all and steps needs to be done in that direction.
No - in times of crises foreign nationals and diplomats are given allowances to leave ahead of anyone else. And obviously the amount of help these other countries can offer is severely limited if their own citizens aren’t being allowed to leave the country due to a racist policy at the border.
Problem would be getting everyone on board. How do you stop likes of North Korea, Iran from laying them down? Probably Pakistan and India too?
If anything this will have the opposite effect. Ukraine got rid of theirs and now they've been invaded.
I totally understand that I'm forgetting that factor but if u make a proposition to Ukraine to be:
- be blown into oblivion in hope of to be part of Nato and EU someday
- get funds to rebuild from catastrophy that already happened and to develop rapidly into prospective state with clear directions that Nato and EU is not a possibility but on the other hand Russian influence is also not a possibility
To be free democratic sovereign nations sounds very nice until u look into reality that this means that they want into EU and Nato which Russia is never gonna allow and contrary to my belief earlier in this crisis, reading and looking more into it, I think a-bomb is not out of question if things go very south for Russia.
I reckon 6 weeks before it drops down the news list, not a dramatic drop but a slight lessening of intrest.
Economical sanctions and restrictions. For example Iran. It's a wishful thinking of course as neither US or Russia will be aboard that idea.
It's not letting him to get Ukraine but to create buffer state. By that I mean to prevent Ukraine to be under either influence.
Russia has said for years that it wont allow Ukraine to become a Nato country. Thats the whole reason for the war. If it remained a neutral state then this war would not have happened. On one hand its a democracy and they should damn well be able to choose if they want to be Nato or not. On the other hand if they just let it be and remained a neutral state they wouldn't have been flattened by Russia. They are damned if they do and damned if they dont. They cant and will not back down now. The endgame is Russia neutralizes Ukraine. They make it impossible for it to become Nato and at the same time sets up president that any of the other countries cant as well - Latvia, Estonia, Finland and yes even Belarus (they could elect a West leaning politician in the future). They have already achieved this objective no matter what happens in Ukraine. I cannot see any of those countries joining Nato. If they do they risk the same treatment as Ukraine. Maybe Finland would get away with it.
The Wests endgame is to demonize Russia. This will make it so all these countries dont lean towards Russia like Belarus has. Russia could even be influencing countries like Czech, Poland etc and trying to elect pro Russian governments. Its the game that has been played since the second world war. Also they have legitimate reasons to fk up the Russian economy and turn the world against them.
Which would potentially override the will of a free and democratic country. I fail to see how that's a desirable outcome.