Yeah poor sods being inconvenienced
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Yeah poor sods being inconvenienced
In a way he's right. In another way he can feck off.
Of course he's right, he might be massively opposed to Putin and the war yet he's punished.
It can be unfair and necessary at the same time though.
And get paid with rubel?
Richness is the last thing China needs now. They're loaded. What they need is time ane stability. The longer the better
Their fans would get abused outside their borders right now though, unfortunately. Athletes would be massively unpopular, and for one, I'm eager to see how their news agencies explain this to their population.
They're giving it the tried and tired "keep politics out of sports". And it might be unfair. But I'd argue what's going on is way more unfair on the Ukrainian population in general and especially the civilians.
Of course it's shit being a Russian civilian at this time too but they can thank Putin for that and otherwise shut up if they feel treated unfairly. Unless their anger is directed at Putin and his cronies.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that it’s a also propaganda — it’s not a coincidence that using POW like that is against the Geneva convention. We’ve already seen many examples of Ukraine pushing forward sketchy concepts that suited their side of the story.
In some of the Russian hospitals near the border they’ve stopped admitting civilian patients (which is one of the only clear evidence from the Russian side that there are many casualties). I would assume that they aren’t doing that for treating corpses.
I have huge sympathy for Ukraine and, unlike with Russia, don’t get offended by their lies (as they essentially lead to a good thing) but it’s important to remember that they’re not a reliable source for unbiased information (even though they’re more reliable than Russia for obvious reasons).
It's not. Civilian should be spared as they have nothing to do with the political moves. Or else are we all punishable for the bad things our country did?
This is the way sanctions work, though. It will be civilians who feel the immediate impact, increasing their likelihood to apply pressure to their government
Many Russian athletes are military officers so I think banning them is actually a very mild reaction.
Easily. The Ukraine are doing all they can, but this ends exactly when Russian decides it does. They have the means, but they don't want to flatten the place.
Like the US had the means in Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq?
I think it's very different.
Can we stop calling this a political move? It's a fully unjustified war with dozens of civilian casualties so far.
I personally think the FIA solution of the neutral flag is the fairest solution. F1 isn't really about nation so yeah it's a statement without punishing someone just because they happen to be born in Russia.
No name, no link, no statement, nothing. No idea if it’s true or not
there was a link but it’s been removed
must be bollocks
It's a 'military operation'.
“Special military operation” is the official title. Like in Leo Tolstoy’s famous book “Special military operation and peace”.Peacekeeping even
Russia can't really afford to bomb the shit out of Ukraine as it is European country and is under the spotlight. It's unjust I know, but flattening it would result in serious outcry around the world where the consequences for them would be a lot bigger than when the States flattened Iraq/Afghanistan.
Russia will have to sacrifice a lot of soldiers as time is against them and bombing and shelling sieged cities for months is not in their favor. Whilst on the other hand US could operate fairly free in that area(even supported by many countries) and could sit back and wait until the resistance is depleted.
Russia will become China's vassal state in a few years if this barrage of sanctions last that long.
It is though. Russia will be hit on their cultural pride and togetherness by being deprived of sporting achievements.
F1 racers being excluded is a much lesser loss for those racers than what are lot of Russians are feeling as a result of these sanctions.
Should american citizen be punished for what they did in iraq?
Should japanese civilian be punished for world war 2?
Should Russian rich people that has no direct link with putin that just happen to have flats in UK got deported? Or got his asset frozen without due trial, or just based on some ad hoc bodies that plays judge jury and executioner. I dont even think escobar got his account frozen that easily.
Good intention, wrong principle.
It happened with 2014, Syria etc. Some people say those weren't covered, but they were, it just gradually faded over time.
The location might keep it in European news longer.
They were, the country was destroyed.
That's a bit strong sounds almost fascist. What next round up anyone born in Russia in camps unless they prove their loyalty?
We need to be a bit careful not to slip into something dark. Targeting oligarchs and making every statement we can against Russia is of course necessary, punishing innocent Russians who aren't even representing Russia is not.
Liberation tooPeacekeeping even
Russia/China trade has jumped 35% last year along, before the war started. It is likely to increase even more and probably double with the current sanctions in place. China will exploit that - no doubt about it.
There is already trade war between USA and China and one of the reasons why the trade between Russia and China is rising. Europe can't afford to sanction China really, unless it goes in openly as Russia ally and bring forces in Ukraine.
Currently China exports almost a trillion of worth of products and services on year basis. If Europe bans this it means it will complete an economical suicide. Most of the machinery in industries is imported from China and tools and repair kits too.
My guess is that China will remain "neutral" but provide the bridge for Russia to divert their export.
Suggesting banning people from partaking in sports is a slippery slope to internment camps.
What sanctions do you suggest that avoids hurting the civilian population of Russia but puts pressure on e.g. oligarchs?
Most of those are energy imports. China needs Russian gas and a lot more of it in order to make any progress in it's climate pledges. Heck it needs it to keep lifting people out of poverty.
That'll be something that'll be tolerated because the alternative is further gas price hikes or China having to keep running very dirty and inefficient coal plants.
Team sports should be banned, individual not so much. F1 drivers, tennis players in singles, etc., they should be allowed to play but without a flag, IMO.
What did you imagine that the sanctions would do to the common people in Russia?
It's a war. We're well past the stage of "let's clamp down on those oligarchs but otherwise leave Russia as intact as possible."
Seems like you are moving the goalposts a bit here. Has there been any talk about deporting the average Russian living abroad? I don't think so. Targeting the oligarchs I would be more than OK with - I would encourage it even. Anything that can be done to even slightly push for ending this war and removing Putin from power, I'm all for.
It might not be fair in the strictest sense, but we should use every tool available to make it clear to the Russian people, that this is not acceptable. It will hit some people that might be against it already, but so be it. That's unfortunately how countries work.
I'm conflicted on the Russian athlete thing. It's easy to say it's not their fault and politics should 'stay out of the sport' but on the other hand: Russia has to understand the gravity of their actions and this includes isolation from international sporting. I lean towards the latter.
Suggesting banning people from partaking in sports is a slippery slope to internment camps.
What sanctions do you suggest that avoids hurting the civilian population of Russia but puts pressure on e.g. oligarchs?
TBF I'm also opposed to banning people from partaking in sports just because they are Russian. National teams - yes. Events hosted inside Russia - yes. But banning someone because he's born there is not something I can accept.
Of course there are exception to what I said above like Mazepin for obvious reasons.
Exactly this.
And that's a fair opinion and worth discussing. Suggesting it's a step away from internment camps is more than a bit of a reach.
I'm not sure I agree people can complain too much about unfairness given what's going on in Ukraine though.