Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

I think the tide is changing a little now given the lack of news we are getting (pro Ukraine) over the past 24 hours.

I suspect Russia is exerting some control now.
 
TMDaines said:
You've already seen Syria. Now Ukraine. What are you going to appease next?
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if we jumped to a WW every time the States or Russia invaded a foreign country we'd be in the double figures by now..

I'm pleasantly surprised how active govts are with sanctions in such a short amount of time and that would definitely hurt Russia in time.
 
Rightnr said:
They did yesterday but today it's on BBC and much bigger audience.

Meanwhile, a Ukrainian journalist is ripping Boris a new one
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I did see that. She was basically saying we should remove all russians from western territory and provoke (military) WW3 and by extension nuclear warfare.
 
Gambit said:
If it does, then the sanctions will continue. The world order will move on without Russia being a factor. It's not just the west that's pissed with them.
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Very unlikely, people in Russia will starve and Puting will threaten with nukes again. Do you really believe that sanctions will continue even then?
 
Rajma said:
I’m baffled people don’t get that, if we retreat now in few years it will be Poland/Baltics, and it will be much harder because you’ll now be bordering with Russia instead of Ukraine.
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agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
 
MUFC OK said:
I did see that. She was basically saying we should remove all russians from western territory and provoke (military) WW3 and by extension nuclear warfare.
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Well, Putin is threatening war on the West's way of life.

In times of war, you expel the aggressor's citizens. Some people seem to be struggling to catch up.

Also, the lady in question was clearly very emotional, as anyone would be if their home is being bombed and you're seeing supporting with thoughts and prayers. I know NATO cannot fight but I sure as hell get the sentiment.
 
How long before the sanctions start making the life of an average rural Putin supporter difficult?
 
spiriticon said:
If Putin wins the war and is not removed and we go "Meh, back to normal life", we are fecked. It allows China and North Korea to see that what Russia is doing is possible, that the 'West' is weak, afraid of hardship, and will conform to their will in time to come.

Boris wasn't joking when he said Putin must fail. He must or it is an existential threat to our governments.
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This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
 
Tarrou said:
agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
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"Never" is a strong word. I would say he's not currently thinking about it seriously and leave it at that.

I bet he wasn't seriously thinking of invading Ukraine 10 years ago either though.
 
Rajma said:
What will be the difference then?
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Exactly, if the botox face is ready to use nukes in a war against Ukraine, he will be fecking up for it when his own citizens start feeling the heat really bad.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? That they embrace Western culture and governments?

They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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He'd be right to make that assumption. Take over the world is a bit strong, but big chunks of South East Asia? Yep, I can see that.

China are despicable and I wish we could cut ties.
 
Tarrou said:
agree on not backing down but he’s never invading Poland in a million years
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Maybe not Poland because it's a big country and it's a hard sell to convince anyone it's traditionally Russian.

The Baltics, on the other hand... they could easily be next.
 
It is ridiculous to suggest that policy of indifference and inacting will help us avoid a new World War.

If anything, WW2 teaches us that it is precisely what may lead us into next war. Anyone not remembering well enough should repeat a history lesson on Edvard Beneš and Czechoslovakia in years leading up to WW2, and how European leading countries at that time were way more concerned in appeasing Hitler, hoping that by taking smaller countries around will eventually satisfy him enough.

Yes, the Europe is way more united now, but it is ridiculous to suggest not getting involved further will calm Putin down and cut his ambitions.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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Go read some history. China will make hay if people like you don't wake up.
 
Buster15 said:
The F35 and EF Typhoon carry out different roles. Typhoon is far better at air to air.
While the F35 is nothing like as good at that, it is better at ground attack.
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In a close in dogfight. Pilots who graduated from 4.5 gen fighters always say the sensor fusion on the F35 gives it a big advantage over them despite it's lower performance stats, and forgetting the stealth element.
 
spiriticon said:
Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? That they embrace Western culture and governments?

They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
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IWat said:
He'd be right to make that assumption. Take over the world is a bit strong, but big chunks of South East Asia? Yep, I can see that.

China are despicable and I wish we could cut ties.
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Rightnr said:
Go read some history. China will make hay if people like you don't wake up.
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China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.
 
Smores said:
Childish response. Thankfully the western government aren't as childish as some of you and are actually being balanced with their actions.
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Well if the sanctions don't stop Putin, are you arguing that we don't do anything else and that we should leave him to it?
 
spiriticon said:
Do you get the impression they are very friendly to the West? They are not evil, but that doesn't mean they won't welcome a bigger influence on the world order.
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The Chinese people are very friendly to the west, the same anti-west sentiment isn't really there. Although considering posters like that like to keep projecting China as an empire in waiting they're probably going to end up pushed away from westernisation.
 
Conor said:
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
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China feeling emboldened (by the West's inability to protect Ukraine) to take Taiwan would be enough to create a similar situation at the other end of the world.
 
TMDaines said:
The disinformation is that just because strikes happened elsewhere does not mean that they matter less here in Ukraine now. You should be even fecking angrier about what is starting to happen in Kharkiv right now, because it is beginning to look like Russia will consider doing what they did in Syria and turn Kharkiv into another Aleppo.

You are doing the Kremlin’s job for them if you are engaging in whataboutery. They actively want black people, brown people and white people from the West to divide on these issues and not present a united front.
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Oh bore off. I've been vocal about Russian aggression for years and it won't stop at Ukraine. I really hope they don't take the same approach they took in Syria as it was really barbaric. The damage they did there was truly emotionally draining.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
It is ridiculous to suggest that policy of indifference and inacting will help us avoid a new World War.

If anything, WW2 teaches us that it is precisely what may lead us into next war. Anyone not remembering well enough should repeat a history lesson on Edvard Beneš and Czechoslovakia in years leading up to WW2, and how European leading countries at that time were way more concerned in appeasing Hitler, hoping that by taking smaller countries around will eventually satisfy him enough.

Yes, the Europe is way more united now, but it is ridiculous to suggest not getting involved further will calm Putin down and cut his ambitions.
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People are scared. I get that. I absolutely agree with you though.

Each country needs to stick together both behind the scenes and publicly in order to apply pressure on the Putin regime from every angle.

If it gets to the point where more action than sanctions are needed and supplying weapons, then this is on Putin and as with any bully everyone must step up and stand up for what is right.

Burying heads in the sand won’t work nor will trying to appease him due to fear.

Anyone who has been bullied will know this.
 
Rightnr said:
Well, Putin is threatening war on the West's way of life.

In times of war, you expel the aggressor's citizens. Some people seem to be struggling to catch up.

Also, the lady in question was clearly very emotional, as anyone would be if their home is being bombed and you're seeing supporting with thoughts and prayers. I know NATO cannot fight but I sure as hell get the sentiment.
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Well actually, keeping Russian assets and citizens in the UK may in itself be a nuclear deterrent. I am concerned that Putin is definitely willing to go that far and definitely agree with Johnson regarding no flight zone, and I scarcely ever agree with him.

Completely sympathise with the lady. It's an abhorrent sequence of events and we have to deal with this with tact, but we have to take the threats seriously and not escalate matters.
 
Conor said:
China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.
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China doesn't have to go to war to extend it's sphere of influence. It only needs to up its propaganda levels on a scale which beats the West. Win the information war.

With so many Western people failing to see the dangers ahead, it looks like a very easy battle.
 
Failing to understand what is the point of Russia asking the US to withdraw their nuclear arsenal from Europe. While this made sense in the sixties, with ICBMs and SCBMs, what does it change? The US has the capability of throwing thousand of nuclear weapons from the US and oceans, so why it is important that they remove them from Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy, and Turkey.

Or could it be that Russia really thinks that they can block ICBMs/SCBMs?
 
Given the understandable reluctance to directly intervene militarily, I guess the question for anyone who wants to see this end with Putin's downfall is what it will take in terms of sanctions or Russian casualties (either as a result of this invasion or insurgency) for a move against Putin from within Russia to be successful. And would the west have the appetite to maintain the sanctions neccessary to force that for long enough, even after Ukraine is taken.
 
TMDaines said:
Well if the sanctions don't stop Putin, are you arguing that we don't do anything else and that we should leave him to it?
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Depends what you mean by stop, if he takes anywhere beyond Ukraine it'll be war. Otherwise we'll leave him to it, arming a resistance possiblly but that'll be the extent of it.

Why is that surprising? We leave countless dictators to it all the time, some are allies and some we sell them the arms to slaughter innocent civilians.
 
do.ob said:
China feeling emboldened (by the West's inability to protect Ukraine) to take Taiwan would be enough to create a similar situation at the other end of the world.
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So we are essentially supposed to progress towards nuclear holocaust to try and convince China not to try and take back Taiwan? I'm pretty sure they will do that either way, if they really want to. People genuinely seem to forget this isn't the 1940s anymore. This whole 'we will fight them on the beaches' bravado doesn't really stand the test of time when everyone has nukes.
 
Sanctions will almost certainly be eased even if Ukraine falls. Putin's entire war is based on 'the west will not end the world over Ukraine'. Like feck he's in any doubt that the sanctions that actually hit will be removed if he threatens again.

Shite as it is, even if he takes Ukraine, the only ones who'll suffer after it are the Ukrainians. Rest of the world will move on.
 
Conor said:
China are probably a bit ahead of the US on the despicable scale, I will give you that. Some of you in this thread are going on like this is a movie and it's scaremongering nonsense, fed to people by war mongering governments and institutions that are half the reason shit like this constantly happens in the world.
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A bit? They're carrying out what if it isn't already, comes very close to being a genocide against the Uyghurs.
It's a state where restrictions on freedom of speech make Putin look like a cuddly bear.
I'd get thrown in prison for posting this from China on a Chinese website.
And it's going to be a military superpower, if it isn't already.

I don't want to de-rail the thread so I will stop here on China. But a bit? Come on.
 
Varun said:
Sanctions will almost certainly be eased even if Ukraine falls. Putin's entire war is based on 'the west will not end the world over Ukraine'. Like feck he's in any doubt that the sanctions that actually hit will be removed if he threatens again.

Shite as it is, even if he takes Ukraine, the only ones who'll suffer after it are the Ukrainians. Rest of the world will move on.
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Sanctions won’t end anytime soon and they will get worse for Russia before better
 
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