If he really wants to be a thought leader on the conflict then he neads to delineate a path towards a peaceful settlement rather than just saying there should be one, which is what the vast majority of people think anyway.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
If he really wants to be a thought leader on the conflict then he neads to delineate a path towards a peaceful settlement rather than just saying there should be one, which is what the vast majority of people think anyway.
I agree with @Sarni here. I don't see any other way out of this mess.
Also, the very last thing Zelenskyy should be thinking about (and I really doubt he's thinking about it at all), is the next election.
What if Russia’s offer is do this, or we start throwing thermobaric bombs and possibly tactical nukes?
Zelensky is not a career politician, and I doubt he cares about elections. If that is on the table, who knows what happens.
I don’t see how Putin retreats without getting anything in return. Which leaves someone ousting him (no indications that might happen), some settlement with Ukraine, total destruction of Ukraine, and nuclear war as options.
What a bunch of clowns
Aren't a lot of the Russians in that part of the Ukraine not happy with the invasion and haven't backed Putin like he expected.
Start using thermobaric weapons and tactical nukes and you see NATO getting involved as those weapons cause genocide and responsibility to protect under the UN charter kicks in. If Putin is bent on getting something significant, he needs to give something significant up. He is the one who is losing eveything minute by minute and he is the one who started the bloody war. No major country in the world ever recognized either the results of the Crimea elections or LDP and DNP.
Well now that it's been pointed out clearly to me, and seems to be familiar with sentiments of Ukrainians I know, that would probably be a defeat for Ukraine. My issue is I do not see this ending with Russia getting nothing, and they've been fighting over that territory for 8 years, I do not see this ending anytime soon. There really does not seem any realistic good way out of it. It's not like Russia will back down.
I don't think many if any western reporters get a chance to go there and let the world know what's going on there, so largely info about those regions will be coming out of russian media. Same with Crimea, ever since it was annexed, I don't think any western outlet has made a piece on life there, just different reports from different organizations.
Corbyn is the teenager's idea of a politician. He's an absolute heavyweight when it comes to nice words and absolute amateur when it comes to actually getting results.
He would have tried to negotiate with Hitler and complained about both sides when the Nazis were at the door.
But we all know that that means, don’t we?
Yeah and when nukes start flying about we are all toast.
Why does that weapon exist and why the feck would anyone have 6 thousand of them. It's absolutely ridiculous.
Considering Krakow is rather meaningless in military or economic terms I would probably be spared (+ I live 12 km from city center), but feck me if I had to live in evaporated world where all major cities are gone, there's no economy and probably no food either.
Exactly. There is no chance they fight this doggedly for Ukraine only to give part of it away to a retreating enemy.
Some guarantees about not joining NATO and such might satisfy both sides. I can’t see how giving parts of Ukraine over would even work since that’s not what Putin wanted anyway.
His order for nuclear submarine captains would have been to surrender to Russians if they nuke London.
It makes sense, I just think that means that the current sanctions will then be no motivator for Putin to call back his troops.
I understand that the hope is that the citizens of Russia see the situation Putin has caused and start a new revolution, this would be great and probably the best long term outcome but who knows how long that could take. I saw the sanctions as a great bargaining chip that could be offered to Putin once the pressure from his people increases to say "you can end all this, just withdraw your troops now" seems like a quicker way to stop people dying and then tackle the problem of Putin still being in power once the immediate crisis is over.
That said, I am fundamentally ignorant with world politics.
I mentioned this yesterday or Saturday, nobody should have nukes nevermind thousands of them.
The Russian Economy:
I agree with a lot of what he says from an ideological standpoint, but no, he’s not the person I’d want in charge right now. Lord knows I don’t want that moron Bojo, but the issue with Corbyn is that he so idealistic, he prioritises accuracy over plausibility. What would he actually do, other than ask for peace? I don’t think anyone wants a war with Russia but for me, Corbyn is the epitome of political impotence. He sounds great as a university lecturer, but in the harsh reality of the actual world, on the world stage, he’s a lamb to the slaughter.
I firmly believe there’s a middle ground. Because as much as what happens on the world stage is utterly deplorable, it still happens. You can’t control the actions of other countries and leaders. And at times you have to get tough in the name of national or regional interests. Voices like his are vital and I have a lot of respect for him, but I can’t imagine him as PM anymore than I could imagine Bojo. He’s like a box of wet tissues.
Putin himself published an article titled “On the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians” in article summer 2021 - I posted a link earlier in the thread but the Kremlin website is currently down so can’t access it here. But you can read an analysis of it here -https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacj...icle-historical-unity-russians-and-ukrainians
The sanctions are there not to motivate Putin, but to force him. Withdrawing troops on Putin's terms implies giviving away some territories that the Ukranian people died for. Do not see that happening personally.
Красава. Респект.
I think the idea is to cripple him economically so that he cant fund this a second time around. The perception is that he has been building up to this for years, certainly at least since they annexed Crimea, with the Russian economy funding the build up.
If you take that away (or at least severely damage it) he wont be able to do it again. I could be wrong but I think that would be the approach.
Putin is essentially stuffed surely?
As rigged as what their elections are or however he stays in power (threats no doubt), I can’t see the Russian PEOPLE happy with what he’s dragged them into
He’s made a hash of this war he’s started on Ukraine, many Russian Soldiers have died, they don’t look like winning anytime too soon, which could result in dirty tactics…..war is dirty, but there are war crimes to be committed that can make it dirtier which a lot of the time is through desperation and too win, which will only make matter worse for Putin and the Russians perception of him.
I just think this move on Ukraine and how it’s panning out will only end with the end of Putin
obviously not guaranteed but that’s just how I see it at this stage and I hope too god I’m right, preferably someone would whack him but more realistically Russia goes into civil chaos and oust him, which won’t be a pleasant process for the people of Russia, nothing as unpleasant than what the Russian Government has put Ukraine through of course, but nonetheless unpleasant
As rigged as what their elections are or however he stays in power (threats no doubt), I can’t see the Russian PEOPLE happy with what he’s dragged them into
He’s made a hash of this war he’s started on Ukraine, many Russian Soldiers have died, they don’t look like winning anytime too soon, which could result in dirty tactics…..war is dirty, but there are war crimes to be committed that can make it dirtier which a lot of the time is through desperation and too win, which will only make matter worse for Putin and the Russians perception of him.
I just think this move on Ukraine and how it’s panning out will only end with the end of Putin
obviously not guaranteed but that’s just how I see it at this stage and I hope too god I’m right, preferably someone would whack him but more realistically Russia goes into civil chaos and oust him, which won’t be a pleasant process for the people of Russia, nothing as unpleasant than what the Russian Government has put Ukraine through of course, but nonetheless unpleasant
Don't really disagree with this, Corbyn and his socialist ways and ideas sound nice on paper but i do agree he's better off on the outskirts of pollitics or giving lectures etc. I liked him but had my reservations about him on many things. Like you said i just couldn't stand Bojo and his tory cronies which had me more with Corbyn.
However you word it, the fundamental point remains the same though surely?
"We are placing sanctions on your country until you do what we want"
"Okay will you remove the sanctions if I do what you want?"
"No"
"So why would I do it?"
Putin definitely deserves to be punished in the harshest possible way, he is literally a war criminal. I just don't see how you get past the above.
Doubt all the sanctions would be gone, some would be removed but not all of them. We're talking relationships beyond repair here between countries, so even if they withdraw all troops it's not going to repair the damage they've caused.
Big companies are pulling pretty much everything they can, dumping projects etc. This will have long lasting consequences for Russia.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in terms of Zelenskyy's continuing leadership. Initially, he stated he was going to be a single term President, but has since backtracked a little on that. Being a peacetime leader and seeking re-election after a war isn't always easy though. Sometimes the general/presidential elections are a great war suggest people want to move on from it, even if the wartime leader was respected for their role.
You are right on there being zero appetite for the Donbas and Crimea being conceded though.. Getting Crimea out of Russian hands without a real escalation in direct military involvement from the West seems very difficult right now. I could see Donbas given special status within Ukraine, similar to what Crimea had previously, where the Russian language has official status too. Ukraine, regardless, will be on the express path towards EU and NATO membership now though unless the country becomes occupied. The problem with all this is that there is no just reason why Ukraine should concede anything, and whatever you give Putin will not be enough except Ukraine becoming another Belarus.
Some sanctions will obviously be removed If Putin withdraws Russias forces, probably a carrot under the table as well in terms of financial aid.
From what I have read he can fund this for an awfully long time, meaning hundreds of thousands or even more could die.
Surely if we have the carrot of removing the sanctions it is worth using if it can stop this now? Surely that is the priority.
Now I do not believe that will be enough for him, I think he will ask for Ukrainian concessions that are beyond what they would sanely view as acceptable. Still it is worth having the carrot to offer once his citizens begin ramping up the pressure due to dire financial situations.
Oh look, I can see my bones through my hands, it’s very hot
That makes a lot more sense to me.
I've already convinced myself its all over and i'm going out in a blazing inferno.
I am incredibly jealous of people i see out and about everyday who just carry on as normal, i cant stop checking the news even if i know its bad for me.
I am incredibly jealous of people i see out and about everyday who just carry on as normal, i cant stop checking the news even if i know its bad for me.
Are you for real?
I think people are overlooking that essentially the war goal for the NATO/EU coalition now is regime change in Russia. Supporting Ukraine is obviously the initial primary motivation, but the West is now far too all-in for anyone to think that next month this might all have been settled peacefully, with all of the leaders of the major protagonists intact.
I assume this Lenin quote is not apocryphal:
I assume this Lenin quote is not apocryphal:
“There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen”
Depends really, as he now has to satisfy Ukraine's terms and West terms.
Think of it this way, his military is sieging Kiev right now so he will feel he can impose terms beneficial to him for this to end, in a similar manner, West is sieging Moscow right now economically, and they will impose their demands in order for that to stop. It won't go hand in hand with stopping invasion, I would think.
As a person that suffered terribly from anxiety a decade or so ago, i can tell you its not rational, doesn't make it less real
No need mate. I think it's safe to say a nuclear war isn't gonna happen. Putin won't be that insane and his generals wouldn't allow it.
And don't forget that militaries have direct communication channels with eachother. I'm sure the US is keeping contact with the Russians like Mark Milley did with China.