Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

So all NATO countries should underfund their military because NATO is there to defend them? Not sure you grasp the concept, buddy. If every NATO country keeps negleting their armed forces, NATO will become a think tank.

That's not what im saying.

Just saying that nato still does the job without needing to go into the opposite extreme. At least for now.
 
The extra bob they'll make from Russia isn't going to compensate for the effect this could have on the global markets and Chinese exports. Heck, It might not even compensate for the effects on the energy market.

We'll see,

It wont. They need stability for global growth. So they are playing the long game with Russia.
 
Someone wont let that happen. And if that happens i fear the US more than the Russia

Probably. The US defo start their fair share of wars. Geopolitics change all the time. NATO is a concept that is here now, but may not be there in 5 years time.

NATO is strong now, but may not be in 5 years time.
 
That's not what im saying.

Just saying that nato still does the job without needing to go into the opposite extreme. At least for now.

a) Germany isn't going into the opposite extreme, but catching up: Scholz has pledged to fulfill the 2% that everyone agreed on, the €100bn are supposed to make up for previous underspending
b) NATO does the job as long as the US prop it up, which one can probably rely on Biden to do, but what/who comes after him?
 


Friedman speaking out, Abramovich (virtually) stepping down and allowing Chelsea to post a statement about the war (even a short evasive one), that's 2 of the 10 richest oligarchs in the Putin circle. Lets hope others come out of the woods, that could move the lines significantly. I guess they don't like their 200M yachts to be confiscated.
 
a) Germany isn't going into the opposite extreme, Scholz has pledged to fulfill the 2% that everyone agreed on, the €100bn are supposed to make up for previous underspending
b) NATO does the job as long as the US prop it up, which one can probably rely on Biden to do, but what/who comes after him?

Yeah. If everyone agrees to split the bill, but nobody is willing to pay up, what happens when it’s actually due? You hope the other debtors pay your share because “we’re in this together”? Right now this has been the mentality for most NATO countries, and as much as it hurts to say it, Trump legitimately called them out for it. The constant underfunding and reliance on USA was/is naive and unfair.
 


This comes with little surprise, hopefully everyone gets out safely.
I don’t doubt people might be experiencing racist behaviour, but there also might be a legitimate explanation for much of this.

Schengen rules dictate that Schengen and other EU countries with freedom of movement get priority processing at Schengen borders. Passport holders of other countries are all second priority, including the UK now. The EU also agrees other policies with third countries. Ukraine has had visa-free access to the EU for a few years now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they also were part of priority processing on the Poland-Ukraine border, or the current situation means a temporary arrangement has been agreed. This would also be the case for international trains between Ukraine and Poland.

I used to cross at Medyka-Shehyni frequently and when the UK was part of the EU, and Ukraine didn’t have visa-free access, I could get always get priority over all the Ukrainians at the Polish border points, but of course had to wait in line with everyone for the Ukrainian border checks. Checks for Ukrainians entering Poland at these times could be above 2-3 hours routinely unless you got there early.

As much as I have sympathy for anyone trying to flee from this, I would have fully anticipated Poland prioritising their own, EU and Ukrainian citizens in such circumstances. The EU isn’t just going to open the borders when people are relatively safe, albeit having a very long, uncomfortable, wait at the border.
People aren’t having to wait the equivalent of 2-3 hours for checks though, they’re being turned away/continually returned to the back of the queue. In a time of war I’m unsure how you can explain this away with Schengen rules, if the result of such a rule is a group of people continually being denied exit then the rule is the issue. Threatening to shoot people doesn’t strike me as ‘safe’ but ‘uncomfortable’.

If during a time like this we don’t prioritise human life over passports then we truly have failed as a human race.
 
So I’ve seen an interview not where someone mentioned that people with blue eyes were being massacred — at best that comment was tone deaf and at worst it was racist.

Does it really matter more that Europeans are being killed and not Afghanis or Yemenis?
 




:rolleyes: At least they're open about it..


do we know the breakdown of the ethnicities that have died yet? i want to be appalled by it all but if we’re only talking a handful of white people and mostly browns dying then we can go back to our avocado on toast without worrying about any of this.
 
I don’t think so. Orban sees Russia as an ally against “Islamisation of Europe”. As do most of the far-right in Europe. And most of the far left sees Russia as the lesser evil compared to the US. Thankfully most of EU countries are under normal governments.

But still, Hungary is a member of the EU, and a member of NATO, and Orban knows where his interests are. So he will play along, no matter what he thinks.

In some of the Baltic countries, there is surely parts of the population that are more inclined to support Russia (for ethnic and religious reasons), at least support Russia as a Power, but they are in the minority. And I think this war will end up eating up whatever good reputation Putin had among them.
This partly explains why people’s understanding of the politics of Easter European countries collapses when trying to place everyone on a left-right spectrum. You can be quite heavily to right and still have your more natural political allies in the West be left-wing or left-centre, because you share a pro-European stance.

I think that confuses a lot of people in the UK especially, where Brexiteers and the current Tory Party are right-wing but are more defined by their Euroscepticism, which makes them very politically remote from centre-right and right-wing parties in many central and eastern European countries.
 
So I’ve seen an interview not where someone mentioned that people with blue eyes were being massacred — at best that comment was tone deaf and at worst it was racist.

Does it really matter more that Europeans are being killed and not Afghanis or Yemenis?

For the reaction of westerners it sure does. If Putin was doing this on his eastern border you wouldn't see such a response and the willingness for sanctions that cut both ways.
 
So I’ve seen an interview not where someone mentioned that people with blue eyes were being massacred — at best that comment was tone deaf and at worst it was racist.

Does it really matter more that Europeans are being killed and not Afghanis or Yemenis?
Unfortunately yes, its 2022 but there are people that still think some lives are worth more than others
 


This is official page of Russian Embassy in BiH.

This is what it says:

Objection of Russian Federation Embassy in BiH

US Embassy in Sarajevo has published on its instagram page a pathetic "documentary" which states that Russian representatives have "lied" about not having intentions to "invade" Ukraine.

As usual, it is the Americans that lie. There is no "invasion". Instead of that, there is a special operation of demilitarization and denazification of Ukrainian regime.

Demilitarization - because it was precisely the United States who stood behind arming the criminal band with weapons, which were then used to barbarically destroy civilians of Donetsk and Lugansk, including children.

None other than United States have filled Ukraine with biolabs that were - quite possibly - used to study methods of destroying Russian people on genetic level.

Denazification - because United States where the ones who supported Neo-Nazi tactics and strategies of Banderites of Kyiv, effectively denying Ukraine, as a Minsk agreeement side, to fullfil its obligations.

United States are commited to their hypocritial policy in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is Washington that actually hinders dialogue within BiH, turns constitutive nations each against the other and opposes abolishing anachronic foreign protectorate which is represented through Office of High Representative. At the same time, Washington "carefully" pushes such Bosnia and Herzegovina towards EU, so that it can be - just like Kosovo - used as a "fuse" against it geopolitical opponent, which is EU. It is true, even though in light of current imaginary solidarity between USA and Europe on "Ukrainian case", such a statement may look excessive. But the moment of truth will come.

USA are not a "proven friend", but experienced predator which is going to, without hesitation, let its allies down to their own destiny, if its tail is stepped on. Examples are in this case needless.

Even the acronym USA is deciphered by some Americans as United States of Anxiety. Anxiety is, and we would like to add, lies too, what United States bring to the whole world.

This is incredible. These people are really insane.
 
UK is being too aggressive in this situations, they've taken actions too much in the past few days imho. They need to calm down a bit. I really like Ukraine's fighting spirits, respect.

 


This is official page of Russian Embassy in BiH.

This is what it says:

Objection of Russian Federation Embassy in BiH

US Embassy in Sarajevo has published on its instagram page a pathetic "documentary" which states that Russian representatives have "lied" about not having intentions to "invade" Ukraine.

As usual, it is the Americans that lie. There is no "invasion". Instead of that, there is a special operation of demilitarization and denazification of Ukrainian regime.

Demilitarization - because it was precisely the United States who stood behind arming the criminal band with weapons, which were then used to barbarically destroy civilians of Donetsk and Lugansk, including children.

None other than United States have filled Ukraine with biolabs that were - quite possibly - used to study methods of destroying Russian people on genetic level.

Denazification - because United States where the ones who supported Neo-Nazi tactics and strategies of Banderites of Kyiv, effectively denying Ukraine, as a Minsk agreeement side, to fullfil its obligations.

United States are commited to their hypocritial policy in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is Washington that actually hinders dialogue within BiH, turns constitutive nations each against the other and opposes abolishing anachronic foreign protectorate which is represented through Office of High Representative. At the same time, Washington "carefully" pushes such Bosnia and Herzegovina towards EU, so that it can be - just like Kosovo - used as a "fuse" against it geopolitical opponent, which is EU. It is the true, even though in light of current imaginary solidarity between USA and Europe on "Ukrainian case", such a statement may look excessive. But the moment of truth will come.

USA are not a "proven friend", but experienced predator which is going to, without hesitation, let its allies down to their own destiny, if its tail is stepped on. Examples are in this case needless.

Even the acronym USA is deciphered by some Americans as United States of Anxiety. Anxiety is, and we would like to add, lies too, what United States bring to the whole world.

This is incredible. These people are really insane.

Wow :lol:

What a remarkable statement in total
 
Seen many reports that many African migrants in Ukraine are finding it difficult to cross the Ukrainian-Polish border.
 
For the reaction of westerners it sure does. If Putin was doing this on his eastern border you wouldn't see such a response and the willingness for sanctions that cut both ways.
Unfortunately yes, its 2022 but there are people that still think some lives are worth more than others


Agreed on both counts. Sad to see.
 
That's not what im saying.

Just saying that nato still does the job without needing to go into the opposite extreme. At least for now.

All it takes is for another Trump to get elected in the US and withdraw them, and suddenly NATO is looking like it needs more firepower.

NATO nations committed to spending 2% GDP on defense, they should be doing so. Its pathetic for the likes of Germany to just expect others to step in to defend them.

If you want peace, you must prepare for war.



Going back to the actual point of the thread, its brilliant to see the Ukrainians holding their own. The longer they hold out, the more problematic this entire affair becomes for Putin, who was banking on a swift 'blitzkrieg' style victory and capitulation. The sanctions being brought in now and discussed are the ones that we shouldve been doing from the start, to really kick hit Russia where it hurts. It is unfortunate that the Russian civilians will suffer from this, but ultimately if you have a rogue state under a dictator, these steps need to be taken to limit their ability to threaten the rest of the world. A beaten down and broken Russia is much less of a threat, even with their nukes (which wont be used to first strike a country like Ukraine).
 


This is official page of Russian Embassy in BiH.

This is what it says:

Objection of Russian Federation Embassy in BiH

US Embassy in Sarajevo has published on its instagram page a pathetic "documentary" which states that Russian representatives have "lied" about not having intentions to "invade" Ukraine.

As usual, it is the Americans that lie. There is no "invasion". Instead of that, there is a special operation of demilitarization and denazification of Ukrainian regime.

Demilitarization - because it was precisely the United States who stood behind arming the criminal band with weapons, which were then used to barbarically destroy civilians of Donetsk and Lugansk, including children.

None other than United States have filled Ukraine with biolabs that were - quite possibly - used to study methods of destroying Russian people on genetic level.

Denazification - because United States where the ones who supported Neo-Nazi tactics and strategies of Banderites of Kyiv, effectively denying Ukraine, as a Minsk agreeement side, to fullfil its obligations.

United States are commited to their hypocritial policy in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It is Washington that actually hinders dialogue within BiH, turns constitutive nations each against the other and opposes abolishing anachronic foreign protectorate which is represented through Office of High Representative. At the same time, Washington "carefully" pushes such Bosnia and Herzegovina towards EU, so that it can be - just like Kosovo - used as a "fuse" against it geopolitical opponent, which is EU. It is true, even though in light of current imaginary solidarity between USA and Europe on "Ukrainian case", such a statement may look excessive. But the moment of truth will come.

USA are not a "proven friend", but experienced predator which is going to, without hesitation, let its allies down to their own destiny, if its tail is stepped on. Examples are in this case needless.

Even the acronym USA is deciphered by some Americans as United States of Anxiety. Anxiety is, and we would like to add, lies too, what United States bring to the whole world.

This is incredible. These people are really insane.

Deary me.
 
Seeing people celebrate increases in military funding while commenting on a on going war/invasion is pure peak monkey brain.

It's peak monkey brain to think that underfunding military is the way to go when we live in times like these. It seems to me that you obviously have no idea what so ever about the state of the german military. Like, completely clueless. Especially compared to our economical power and responsibility towards Europe - as no other country profits as much from the EU as we do, yet we always fell short in terms of spending when it comes to defence. Our european allies, the US and basically everybody kept crying about how little we spend on military and now that we do, people keep crying. I guess you can't please everyone, but let me tell you that the german military is in desparate need of this money.

There is a minimum need to defend yourself. If Germany goes over the edge and starts building 6000 nukes, we can definitely worry. But until that time comes, a stronger Germany is a stronger Europe, a stronger NATO.

That's the way I see it too. By no means should anybody be frightened by Germany finally fulfilling its duty to spend proportional on military. Especially considering our economical and political role in Europe as the biggest nation. We always fell short when it came to responsibility in that regard.

Defend an invasion by whom? Russia? Like in such scenario, Poland-France-UK-US-Italy and the rest of EU would not intervene. Yeah an 80 million country and all the allies (which include super powers) won't be able to hold against a declining Russia.

It's a bit sad really. People seem to never learn from our previous mistakes. It's like world War 1 didn't happen..

Remember when Austro-hungary felt threatened by Serbo-bosnians and boom the whole continent went on war?

I understand that learning from history is something of great importance - but comparing the current Germany with the Germany from 1914 is a bit silly, quite frankly. As I said it in my previous posts again and again, a stronger Europe means less dependancy on our american friends, which should always remain allies. European emancipation is my vision for Europe, as not long time ago an american president played with the US' role in NATO and was very unreliable as a partner. Long term and very unfortunately with what's going on in the US, I feel like it's time to take a step away, from which, by the way, the US would profit as well, as it wouldn't need to spend as many resources for european soil.

Spending billions on military doesn't make me cheerful, but I also think it would be wrong for Germany to just keep it's army underfunded and try to free ride on the backs of other countries. And I think in a reality where the US elected someone like Trump (he may just have been the beginning) and the UK are isolating themselves it would also be naive to just assume others will always fight your conflicts for you.

Exactly, we can not act like we can rely on the US forever when someone like Trump was in office. And as you mentioned, the UK dissociating itself from mainland Europe doesn't help either. We should aim for european autonomy.

Germany already have nuclear latency.

They have sufficient pre-existing technological expertise to build enough nukes to destroy the world in fairly short order. So do Japan, to be fair.

But improving defensive capabilities and developing better early-warning systems is a different kettle of fish.

I'm not very informed on that technical side. While I know we definitely have the capabilities to create nukes as fast as it's basically humanly possible, how fast would that be? Does anybody know how long that process would take?
 
I feel like if Merkel is still a chancellor of Germany, the situations would be change into a bit different dimensions. Since I'm sure that Germany will take actions about Ukraine against Russia more.
 
Zelenskyy is an absolute modern hero, and goes to show that perhaps the best leaders arent the millionaire career politicans, but the everyday people who want the best for their countries, not just themselves.