Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[Rektsanwalt]

No offense, but with all your pro military posts, you do sound like someone from 1913-1914.

yea, wanting a functioning military after a european country was invaded directly makes me some kind of militarist, especially after a former leader of the german army simply said "no" when asked whether or not the Bundeswehr could actually defend Germany in case of any invasion
Not like the whole integrity of whole Europe is under attack and the offender only understands military power

 

[Suv666]

Seeing people celebrate increases in military funding while commenting on a on going war/invasion is pure peak monkey brain.

Yup. Where do they think the money will come from? Welfare programs and public spending will suffer.

 

[nickm]

yea, wanting a functioning military after a european country was invaded directly makes me some kind of militarist, especially after a former leader of the german army simply said "no" when asked whether or not the Bundeswehr could actually defend Germany in case of any invasion
Not like the whole integrity of whole Europe is under attack and the offender only understands military power

You wpukd think that the obvious lesson from all this is that if you cant defend yourself, you will be in Putins sights.

 

[nickm]

Yup. Where do they think the money will come from? Welfare programs and public spending will suffer.

What's the alternative?

 

[::sonny::]

Platitudes and barren words

 

[Sky1981]

You think that the obvious lesson from all this is that if you cant defend yourself, you will be in Putins sights.

You have NATO for that. NATO actually works.

 

[Redlambs]

Yeah, because Russia will try to invade Germany

 

[led_scholes]

yea, wanting a functioning military after a european country was invaded directly makes me some kind of militarist, especially after a former leader of the german army simply said "no" when asked whether or not the Bundeswehr could actually defend Germany in case of any invasion
Not like the whole integrity of whole Europe is under attack and the offender only understands military power

Defend an invasion by whom? Russia? Like in such scenario, Poland-France-UK-US-Italy and the rest of EU would not intervene. Yeah an 80 million country and all the allies (which include super powers) won't be able to hold against a declining Russia.

It's a bit sad really. People seem to never learn from our previous mistakes. It's like world War 1 didn't happen..

Remember when Austro-hungary felt threatened by Serbo-bosnians and boom the whole continent went on war?

 

[JamesB__]

The biggest scandal in all of this is that people have chosen to call him ‘Putler’ and not ‘Vladolf’.

 

[spiriticon]

You have NATO for that. NATO actually works.

So you're depending on other countries spending loads on their defence so that you yourself don't have to?

I don't get that logic in any way...

 

[nickm]

You have NATO for that. NATO actually works.

NATO does work, but it is underfunded and overly reliant on the US, whose delivery cannot always be taken for granted. It should be fairly uncontroversial that Germany, given its position, might feel it needs the option of being able to better defend itself.

 

[Sky1981]

So you're depending on other countries spending loads on their defence so that you yourself don't have to?

I don't get that logic in any way...

It makes sense. Without NaTo germany has to spend much much more to counter Russia alone

 

[2cents]

Just spent an hour with a Ukrainian friend of the family here in Dublin, he’s absolutely devastated and talking about going back to fight along with his son.

 

[VorZakone]

 

[UncleBob]

Not if their economy is export-driven and needs an upturn in the global economy to grow in order to create the 10-11 mil jobs required annually.

The extra bob they'll make from Russia isn't going to compensate for the effect this could have on the global markets and Chinese exports. Heck, It might not even compensate for the effects on the energy market.

We'll see,

 

[Sky1981]

NATO does work, but it is underfunded and overly reliant on the US, whose delivery cannot always be taken for granted.

As it is i think NATO can hold themselves without the US. 50/50 at worst against russia. And you have nukes.

So you're gucci if push comes to the shoves i think.

 

[TMDaines]

I don’t doubt people might be experiencing racist behaviour, but there also might be a legitimate explanation for much of this.

Schengen rules dictate that Schengen and other EU countries with freedom of movement get priority processing at Schengen borders. Passport holders of other countries are all second priority, including the UK now. The EU also agrees other policies with third countries. Ukraine has had visa-free access to the EU for a few years now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they also were part of priority processing on the Poland-Ukraine border, or the current situation means a temporary arrangement has been agreed. This would also be the case for international trains between Ukraine and Poland.

I used to cross at Medyka-Shehyni frequently and when the UK was part of the EU, and Ukraine didn’t have visa-free access, I could get always get priority over all the Ukrainians at the Polish border points, but of course had to wait in line with everyone for the Ukrainian border checks. Checks for Ukrainians entering Poland at these times could be above 2-3 hours routinely unless you got there early.

As much as I have sympathy for anyone trying to flee from this, I would have fully anticipated Poland prioritising their own, EU and Ukrainian citizens in such circumstances. The EU isn’t just going to open the borders when people are relatively safe, albeit having a very long, uncomfortable, wait at the border.

 

[spiriticon]

It makes sense. Without NaTo germany has to spend much much more to counter Russia alone

Why are you so dependent on NATO? NATO is an organisation, which can break down at any time depending on the geopolitics. Trump nearly took the US out of NATO.

 

[VorZakone]

 

[GDaly95]

By any chance has anyone listened to this particular 'space' on twitter?

https://twitter.com/i/spaces/1BdxYwdyQrQGX

I've been listening on and off but feel a bit conflicted about what I've been hearing.

It's a few difference speakers consisting of veterans and journalists with different expertise and from different locations trying to keep up with what's going on in Ukraine.

It is educational at times but there's also a whiff of narcissism and war fetishization coming from it.

 

[::sonny::]

Yeah, because Russia will try to invade Germany

They would like or would try

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Actually I think it's the opposite. NATO has been in an existential crisis for decades. Now europes most economically and politically powerful NATO member has decided it is time to draw a line under that.

Or one existential crisis has given birth to a worse one.

 

[Sweet Square]

Got to be honest, the delight at it has baffled me too.

“It's in your nature to destroy yourselves” - Robot Dad

But seriously I don’t know how people seeing the scenes unfold in Ukraine can come away thinking the answer is more guns and bombs. It’s pure reactionary thinking.

Yup. Where do they think the money will come from? Welfare programs and public spending will suffer.

Pretty much.

There is a minimum need to defend yourself. If Germany goes over the edge and starts building 6000 nukes, we can definitely worry. But until that time comes, a stronger Germany is a stronger Europe, a stronger NATO.

You live in one of the most advanced modern countries in the world. You don’t have any enemies you don’t need defending. You are posting on a football forum.

a stronger Germany is a stronger Europe

It’s super cool that history isn’t a thing anymore.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[spiriticon]

You live in one most of the most advanced modern countries in the world. You don’t have any enemies, you don’t need defending.

Really?

 

[do.ob]

Spending billions on military doesn't make me cheerful, but I also think it would be wrong for Germany to just keep it's army underfunded and try to free ride on the backs of other countries. And I think in a reality where the US elected someone like Trump (he may just have been the beginning) and the UK are isolating themselves it would also be naive to just assume others will always fight your conflicts for you.

 

[SirAF]

NATO does work, but it is underfunded and overly reliant on the US, whose delivery cannot always be taken for granted. It should be fairly uncontroversial that Germany, given its position, might feel it needs the option of being able to better defend itself.

Fair point. Who can say that a future GOP President won't pull out and tell NATO to feck off? Trump has changed the game.

 

[The Corinthian]

It leads to a broken Russia. For the rest of us, it means we get to go about our lives freely.

Do you live in Ukraine?

 

[nickm]

As it is i think NATO can hold themselves without the US. 50/50 at worst against russia. And you have nukes.

So you're gucci if push comes to the shoves i think.

NATO as it is currently set is absolutely reliant both on US forces, leadership and command structures. I can guarantee that without the US, there is no NATO.

 

[spiriticon]

Look, the best thing obviously is a world treaty to demilitarise all nations at once, but let's be honest. Is that EVER likely to happen?

 

[Dante]

There is a minimum need to defend yourself. If Germany goes over the edge and starts building 6000 nukes, we can definitely worry. But until that time comes, a stronger Germany is a stronger Europe, a stronger NATO.

Germany already have nuclear latency.

They have sufficient pre-existing technological expertise to build enough nukes to destroy the world in fairly short order. So do Japan, to be fair.

But improving defensive capabilities and developing better early-warning systems is a different kettle of fish.

 

[nickm]

Do you live in Ukraine?

No but I do live in a country that has recently had its citizens killed by Russia.

 

[The Corinthian]

No but I do live in a country that has recently had its citizens killed by Russia.

Which country is that?

 

[led_scholes]

Look, the best thing obviously is a world treaty to demilitarise all nations at once, but let's be honest? Is that EVER likely to happen?

No. But it's also realistic to tell Russia that in order to lift sanctions they need to cut military budget for example.

 

[Sky1981]

NATO as it is currently set is absolutely reliant both on US forces, leadership and command structures. I can guarantee that without the US, there is no NATO.

Without the US someone will take command.

Ukraine is holding up against Russia. Imagine Ukraine with full Nato troops instead of just weapons

 

[the hea]

 

[Sky1981]

Look, the best thing obviously is a world treaty to demilitarise all nations at once, but let's be honest. Is that EVER likely to happen?

Someone wont let that happen. And if that happens i fear the US more than the Russia

 

[Varun]

Which country is that?

Russia

 

[Skåre Willoch]

You have NATO for that. NATO actually works.

So all NATO countries should underfund their military because NATO is there to defend them? Not sure you grasp the concept, buddy. If every NATO country keeps negleting their armed forces, NATO will become a think tank.

 

[Interval]

I don’t doubt people might be experiencing racist behaviour, but there also might be a legitimate explanation for much of this.

Schengen rules dictate that Schengen and other EU countries with freedom of movement get priority processing at Schengen borders. Passport holders of other countries are all second priority, including the UK now. The EU also agrees other policies with third countries. Ukraine has had visa-free access to the EU for a few years now, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they also were part of priority processing on the Poland-Ukraine border, or the current situation means a temporary arrangement has been agreed. This would also be the case for international trains between Ukraine and Poland.

I used to cross at Medyka-Shehyni frequently and when the UK was part of the EU, and Ukraine didn’t have visa-free access, I could get always get priority over all the Ukrainians at the Polish border points, but of course had to wait in line with everyone for the Ukrainian border checks. Checks for Ukrainians entering Poland at these times could be above 2-3 hours routinely unless you got there early.

As much as I have sympathy for anyone trying to flee from this, I would have fully anticipated Poland prioritising their own, EU and Ukrainian citizens in such circumstances. The EU isn’t just going to open the borders when people are relatively safe, albeit having a very long, uncomfortable, wait at the border.

Sort of makes sense. Indian reporters also interviewing many Indian students stuck at Polish borders not being allowed to cross. Threats of being beaten up and firing in the air is what these kids are saying. You’re talking about 20 yr old kids - boys and girls alike.

it’s definitely happening. War is sucky.