Open source intel is available (and supposedly reliable) and being used by a lot of social media accounts. Looks like Ukrainians were prepped for a tactical retreat so hopefully casualties are minimal right now.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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The exact same conundrum applies - Is the sovereignty of any "foreign" territory worth a world war?
I'd like to think so but... feck knows?
Yeah that’s definitely something to look out for. Hopefully it doesn’t come to that - that would be doomsday scenario.
Have they just bombed everywhere? Like they didn't even limit themselves to the 'justifiable' regions?
Yeah, Credit Suisse really going to be helpful here, Switzerland. Morons.
All of Ukraine pretty much. I think there's a strike map 1 or 2 pages ago.
What is the mood like in Lithuania?
When it comes to Taiwan it's a much different story. People here in the US actually fear China and want to defeat them peacefully and militarily if needed. Plus the sad reality is that Taiwan is more important economically and Taiwan falling would be far more damaging to US interests than Ukrainian defeat or Russian victory would ever be.
The Pacific has been the most important ocean strategically for the US for 100 years and that will be where the US natsec community will deep down want to invest resources in for years to come.
Hard to know for sure what is true, but what I gather is that there is a "proper" invasion in eastern and southern Ukraine. Then there are "sporadic" bombings in other places, in order to spread fear.
Putin seems extremely enraged to the point of total nihilistic narcissism at this stage now. What does he consider "interference" enough to justify a full scale nuclear war in HIS mind? When the Russian bodybags start going home, will he still be lying and telling his people that no, there is absolutely no invasion, he is peacekeeping? My feeling is almost that at this point, if he loses (and he will: there is no acceptable outcome at this point that ends with the world forgetting this) then does he just obliterate as much as he can in one (to his mind) justifiable infliction of suffering on the world? Will nobody in Russia stand up to it, or is the propaganda machine too effective?
Narcissistic / psychopathic dictators often consider their people an extension of themselves. Putin will see any deaths or poverty as acceptable losses to him, after all, he's doing it to get what he wants, and if he doesn't get what he wants - which seems to be the re-establishment of the Soviet Union and death of democracy in the bloc - then why care about anyone dying. After all he knows he won't live forever.
Narcissistic / psychopathic dictators often consider their people an extension of themselves. Putin will see any deaths or poverty as acceptable losses to him, after all, he's doing it to get what he wants, and if he doesn't get what he wants - which seems to be the re-establishment of the Soviet Union and death of democracy in the bloc - then why care about anyone dying. After all he knows he won't live forever.
ah gotcha, bit slow on the uptake!
it’s not really though is it?
The point is.
You either move or you get moved on.
The West knew all this. They knew what the Russians want, and what they don't want. They don't want Ukraine in the NATO pact.
It was all made clear by crazy Vlad.
They're not stepping up to the challenge. The West look weak.
Economic sanctions are the lamest excuse of a fight back i ever saw.
You fecking send everything we have. We're not prepared. The west is not prepared. Again.
It's all a bit too close to 39'.
To be fair they have a business to run. A country like Switzerland can't be as partisan as some of his larger neighbours.
So you say, "Yes, protecting US interests is worth a world war"
I bet you the people on the street don't really give a feck about Taiwan.
I can't comprehend it. You're a Russian soldier or pilot and you know you're fighting your neighbour. You know you can come back in a body bag. This isn't worth it.
...no :/
Saying Puting had no choice? You really believe that? Ukraine is a peaceful nation, a FREE nation, recognized by Russia and the rest of the world. They have not provoked or attacked Russia, and they have not applied for NATO or EU membership, and neither would they have been accepted as member, and you should know that. Putin DOES know that. It is irrelevant, just as Hitler, Putin wants his old empire back.
Read this!
The Budapest Memorandum - UN Treaty 1994 signed by Russia and other nations
They are military. They are obliged to follow orders or they end up in a tribunal for betrayal.
I am sure many of them think the same but what can they do? Desert military?
This is classic Switzerland. If I express my honest views on "Swiss neutrality" and the country's stance on such matters, I would probably get banned.
Ukraine can’t take Russia on alone. And they are alone. We’ll do a few more sanctions to make everyone feel like we’re in it together but we’re not. It’s in the west’s interest they fight to disrupt Putin but what is in the people’s interests? Some of those pictures from the frontline - some of them look about 14. And yeah - I get the “if you don’t stop him now when” argument - but the west aren’t trying to stop him. Putin had the greenlight the minute Biden ruled out military action in Ukraine under any circumstances months ago.
Ya it sucks when you say it like that but yes, the US population likes the standard of living this country offers and any war of that scale in the Pacific would seriously challenge that. Average people may not care about Taiwan in and of itself but they definitely care about and fear China taking strategic territory from the US and threatening their livelihoods.
I'd be shocked if this is a genuine pic of action today, but its still nice to look at...
Ukraine and the West aren't the aggressor. I'm still not sure what you are implying here.
West can't engage with military force at this point as it will be WW III. If Ukraine was part of NATO things would be very different.
Ah so your point was that strong countries can do whatever the feck they like unless challenged and the pretext or reason doesn't matter?
Right ok, then just go with that. Just don't give us the bullshit about Cuba equivalence and Russian concerns about their safety. Spare us the hypocrisy at least.
It doesn't matter what I believe.
What matters is what the crazy fecking Russian believes.
And nobody could read him? Or if they did read him, they read him wrong?
What irks me, is that the West played this all wrong.
And they're still reading this wrong.
Edit: they were mistaken
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Solidarity with Ukraine mostly. I mean we’re part of NATO/EU as such no ground for worries. However, generally everyone is under no illusions now about Russia even those who might have had a positive outlook towards them. We have only a very small ethnic Russian population living here (~3%) anyway.
Thats the nature of joining the Military.
You sign up knowing the risks. Your not in charge of what wars you join in on, your leaders are in charge of that.
Doesn’t make you not feel anything for those troops though, both Russian and Ukraine, they all have families back at home etc they so dearly want too return too.
I don't understand how people do not understand that NATO vs Russia would most likely be mutual complete destruction.
Let's be honest here, if it wasn't for NATO Putin wouldn't be limiting himself to Ukraine here.
Let's be honest here, if it wasn't for NATO Putin wouldn't be limiting himself to Ukraine here.
Completely knew to this (apart from the rumblings for a few weeks before). Are any other countries going to intervene are is it just fair game for Russia?
Ah right, yeah I agree with you on that. Weakest of weak responses, but then again the UK especially is totally compromised. Years of Russian funding and integration of their richest citizens, who simultaneously mingle with European elites while maintaining a direct line to Putin, has its uses.
Ya, this has proven to be one of the more baffling aspects of this thread discussion.
It's not hypocrisy.
It's geopolitics.
Being able to read your opponent. And it's still the 60's in regard to Soviet - American relationships.
The Trump administration just masked that with another doofus on the other side.
Now, there's only one batshit crazy leader left.