Everything Morawiecki says should be considered bullshit for the sake of internal polling. Trusting politician claims at face value is extremely risky in the best of times and at least thus far they seem to be the only source of this.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
It sounds like you haven't seen the video @Simbo was refering to? It was an attack on Russian treanches with BMP's not western armor and it could serve as a good example of how not to attack an enemy position because everything was done wrong.
Smoke screen was deployed far behind the Russian positions in the middle of a forrest, no suppressing artillery or mortar fire on the Russian positions, no suppressing fire from the BMP's when they where closing in on the positions and no AA support to take out the Russian drone that was following the attack from above. The Ukrainian soldiers where just expected to drive straight up to the Russian positions without any support.
This was only one operation but it proves that there are still commanders in the Ukrainian army who can't get away from the Soviet mindset of just sending in more bodies as a solution. The lives of the Ukrainian soldiers are worth more than that and problems like this should be lifted up and talked about so they can get rid of the rotten apples.
I thought you talked about the recent published video of an Ukrainian column pushing forward through open ground and getting hammered by a Russian tank + artillery after being spotted by drones. I honestly don't know how else to push there given everything is mined and they have to follow the first vehicle.
I'm talking about this video here:
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Questions will of course be asked, answered and lessons learned. Bad intel clearly, drove into a trap of the kind Ukraine has be implementing all along.
First time I’ve seen Russia so it effectively so maybe that’s new and unexpected but also it seems like a standard defensive operation and you’d like to think with all of AFU’s drones, they are looking out for stuff like this. Maybe just happy to get down a route that didn’t appear to be mined.
But as I said, the overall assault in this area, around Robotnye appears to have been successful. It’s always going to come at great cost.
If they think that air support (and more advanced specific weapons) would help a lot with their progress, just sit back and use long range to disrupt them for now until such support comes. There is not much point at all in pushing your soldiers to death when your enemy is in a big advantage position and has more manpower (to reinforce) than you.
It looks like these (very) recent operations were able to gain about 3 kilometers square(?) on the South with some big manpower and equipment loss so far. The NATO-trained troops are also very overhyped for two reasons. You can't raise their standard that high in a couple of months (without NATO standard army to support them), and if the senior officers are not trained on how to use them, it would just not be effective at all.
Funny how we mocked the Russians when they were attacking. By all accounts, they didn't seem to do too badly in hindsight, did they? All these WWII events with elastic defense in similar positions done by The Soviet Army(?) were interesting. But that worked because of the superior manpower from the Soviet Union? If it were true, the advantage now can be there for the Russian troops long term as long as Putin can keep sending their men to death?
It looks like these (very) recent operations were able to gain about 3 kilometers square(?) on the South with some big manpower and equipment loss so far. The NATO-trained troops are also very overhyped for two reasons. You can't raise their standard that high in a couple of months (without NATO standard army to support them), and if the senior officers are not trained on how to use them, it would just not be effective at all.
Funny how we mocked the Russians when they were attacking. By all accounts, they didn't seem to do too badly in hindsight, did they? All these WWII events with elastic defense in similar positions done by The Soviet Army(?) were interesting. But that worked because of the superior manpower from the Soviet Union? If it were true, the advantage now can be there for the Russian troops long term as long as Putin can keep sending their men to death?
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Russians either rolled over vastly outnumbered Ukrainian units at the beginning of this war (and still failed in many places), or they used human meatgrinder tactics like in Soledar and Bakhmut. Ukraine needs to attack positions, which have been prepared for roughly half a year. I don't see how you can compare this.
What you described here is exactly what UA would have to do to gain an inch of ground nowadays. This is not about how great the Russians are. Rather, it is about how difficult the battle field situations are for both sides with the training and equipment they have.
What do you mean, they were woeful? I can’t tell if you just look to troll people because comparing Ukraine at the start of the war to now is like comparing a League 1 club to a PL team. They had next to none of the NATO aid they now have.
I'd not even seen that clip yet. Crazy footage. Though according to noelreports, its from the battle for Novodarivka in the early days of June, which Ukraine took around June 11th.
Can't find the clip I was referring to now, oddly, guess its not being spread too much. It showed what seemed to be a "killbox" type ambush around Robotnye. I.e. they waited until the Ukrainian column reached a specific zone, took out the lead vehicle with ATGM, then unleashed hell on the rest.
Who were they that were woeful and what is there to troll?
You know exactly what I mean. There’s no other way to translate it when your quote is referenced.
No, you said "What do you mean, they were woeful"? I can't exactly answer that question if I have no idea who you think was woeful or what they were being woeful at. And I am completely lost with the rest of your post after that too. You sliced up my post and quoted the part when I talked about the Russians. Then you brought up the UA troops comparing the levels of football clubs.
And I am supposed to be trolling people.
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No not that one, I'm not certain but this one looks to be another one from the failed breach attempt in early June. The one I'm talking about has a group of BMPs that drive up to the Russian trenches and gets destroyed from two directions with ATGMs and RPGs.
Edit: Here is the video
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Oh okay, my bad then. I apologise. The video I was talking about appeared like 10 hours before on r/combatfootage on the top, so I assumed you're both talking about it. Your video is definetly more brutal. Still it's very difficult to approach such positions without any air support. You can plan all you like, on the ground the situation can develop in all directions. Cluster munitions on those trenches would have been definetly the better choice in hindsight. Also Ukraine needs more anti drones weapons. Russia is learning to use them better and better. Ukraine had the advantage in 2022 in drone warfare, but Russia has cought up a lot.
Seems like it was free vodka day in the Kremlin again:
Some Putin quotes:
"The peace plan for Ukraine and the grain deal have nothing to do with each other"
"We can't cease fire if they attack us"
"The story of the kidnapping of children from Ukraine is inflated, this is the rescue of children from the places of hostilities",
"Since June 4, the Kyiv regime has lost 415 tanks, and 2/3 of the equipment lost in battles is Western"
"The enemy in Ukraine has been stopped and driven back everywhere"
edit: If you'd show those quotes to someone who doesn't know anything about this war, he will think Ukraine is the aggressor
Some Putin quotes:
"The peace plan for Ukraine and the grain deal have nothing to do with each other"
"We can't cease fire if they attack us"
"The story of the kidnapping of children from Ukraine is inflated, this is the rescue of children from the places of hostilities",
"Since June 4, the Kyiv regime has lost 415 tanks, and 2/3 of the equipment lost in battles is Western"
"The enemy in Ukraine has been stopped and driven back everywhere"
edit: If you'd show those quotes to someone who doesn't know anything about this war, he will think Ukraine is the aggressor
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Seems like it was free vodka day in the Kremlin again:
Some Putin quotes:
"The peace plan for Ukraine and the grain deal have nothing to do with each other"
"We can't cease fire if they attack us"
"The story of the kidnapping of children from Ukraine is inflated, this is the rescue of children from the places of hostilities",
"Since June 4, the Kyiv regime has lost 415 tanks, and 2/3 of the equipment lost in battles is Western"
"The enemy in Ukraine has been stopped and driven back everywhere"
edit: If you'd show those quotes to someone who doesn't know anything about this war, he will think Ukraine is the aggressor
This is an admission of guilt, regardless of latter part.
Also, another good one :
Putin : We only withdrawed from the Kyiv-region cause we were asked to do so.
Maritime drones are pretty interesting. Wonder what the West is developing in this field.
CNN:
At some point, you would have to ask who is getting their reserve out first after awhile if that keeps happening.
Apparently, the Russian helicopters have been helping to retake the positions they have lost as well. Many times, UA troops struggled to hold the locations that they captured. So it is not really easy to soften the blow of having high casualties for the grounds that they can't hold due to lack of equipment and poor leadership just by saying well, it happens in war.
At some point, you would have to ask who is getting their reserve out first after awhile if that keeps happening.
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And you're pulling your little plonker off about it again.
Are you obsessive with me or something? It is a bit getting creepy, really. I am also very surprised that my posts triggered you like that often but I am the one who is pulling my little plonker off about around, right?
Concerning.
Very, of course.
From time to time, Ukraine shows Russians they're not as invulnerable as they think they are.
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lol-lol-lol
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We need to add more sanctions and send as much air power and ammunition as we can at this point. Too long faffing now, get as serious as we possibly can.