Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

The Firestarter said:
It's like a choice between a giant douche and turd sandwich.
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That very much depends on what happens though. If Wagner does drive Putin out that doesn't mean Prigozhin immediately takes power. It just means Russia will be in a state of flux. If the civilian populace marches on mass I don't think there's really much Prigozhin can do. Yes, he's got 25k troops, but if they start opening fire on Russian Civilians then all that good will they've got with the Russian Army goes. Then it will be all out war. On top of that you just know there will be diehard supporters of Putin who will not go out quietly.

It's going to be an utter mess.
 
Sir Matt said:
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Corbyn will claim that NATO's aggressive expansion has lead to Russia emptying it's prisons to join mercenary militias...battle in Africa and Syria to gain combat experience...be directed to fight in Ukraine...decide to do a 180 and start fighting Putin's forces and storm Moscow.

He may even claim it's part of some global conspiracy run by...ah yes...well lets just say global corporate forces.
 
Champ said:
Yeah, because reports already of potential civilian injuries in Russia is great to hear.
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What about those who died in Kyiv tonight due to russian bombing? Why didn't you write a post about them?
 
do.ob said:
Right. My heart is breaking seeing how the aggressors turn their weapons against each other instead of combining their strength against Ukranian civilians.
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This.

Trying to take a moral high ground when there’s feck all high ground to take is laughable.

Russia started all this, they can deal with the consequences. If this brings a quicker end to the bloodshed in Ukraine then I’m all for it, im not condoning innocent lives being lost in Russia but with a war, it’s a sad reality, but I’d rather that be within the aggressors borders.

This is Russia’s mess.
 
TMDaines said:
They, Wagner, aren’t going to gain power. It’s a question of when and not if they are subdued. In the meantime, however, it might provide a bit more of a distraction for Ukraine to liberate its territory and – more importantly – its enslaved people.
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If this does go to an all out assault for Moscow, it stands to reason that no troops will be brought in from the Ukrainian battlefield, that'd take too long to get any troops there.

Meanwhile attacks are still continuing in Ukraine.
 
buchansleftleg said:
Corbyn will claim that NATO's aggressive expansion has lead to Russia emptying it's prisons to join mercenary militias...battle in Africa and Syria to gain combat experience...be directed to fight in Ukraine...decide to do a 180 and start fighting Putin's forces and storm Moscow.

He may even claim it's part of some global conspiracy run by...ah yes...well lets just say global corporate forces.
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instead we should celebrate the rise of privately funded paramilitaries committing carnage around the world. yee haw!
 
Champ said:
But the problem there is the battlefield is merely being moved,

The Ukrainian war won't end straight away, and if the Wagner group did gain power, or at least Putin lost power, there's no guarantee that the Ukrainian war would end, or troops be pulled out.
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The leader of Wagner has come out and said that the war is nothing to do with demilitarisation but simply for a general to get another star. He could maybe change his narrative again and continue the war but it's a better chance for a resolution of the conflict than to allow what's currently been going on to continue. Obviously innocent Russians are going to be in the crossfire and that is tragic, but a continuation of the killing in a prolonged war would surely be greater and worse?
 
Champ said:
No, it's Ukrainians suffering at home

And now Russians suffering at home.

Great stuff. Two for the price of one.
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Things can't be in two places at once. Any vehicle lost in Russia is one vehicle less attacking Ukraine. Any missiles expended at Wagner is one missle less aimed at Urkaine. Wagner moving on Russia probably means tens of thousand Russian soldiers less in Ukraine. Surely that's not so hard to grasp? And besides, Russia imploding is the quickest route to peace anyway.
 
Champ said:
If this does go to an all out assault for Moscow, it stands to reason that no troops will be brought in from the Ukrainian battlefield, that'd take too long to get any troops there.

Meanwhile attacks are still continuing in Ukraine.
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Unless they roll right away through Moscow, there will be some standoff. In such a case , its a race against time and the government would have resources in Ukraine they could deploy through the Northern routes.
 
onemanarmy said:
I prefer them fighting in Russia in stead of Ukraine to be fair.
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but they are also fighting in Syria, Libya, the Central African Republic, Mail, North Sudan and Yemen.
I want Putin gone as much as the next man, but a coup by a privately funded multinational paramilitary group that doesn't seem to answer anymore to any state, only its funders? how can that possibly end well.
 
Incredible to see people crying about murderers, rapists and enslavers turning on each other, rather than just getting on with more murder, rape and enslavement.
 
TMDaines said:
Incredible to see people crying about murderers, rapists and enslavers turning on each other, rather than just getting on with more murder, rape and enslavement.
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The same types who wanted Ukraine to be occupied quickly so there is less bloodshed.
 
Champ said:
But the problem there is the battlefield is merely being moved,

The Ukrainian war won't end straight away, and if the Wagner group did gain power, or at least Putin lost power, there's no guarantee that the Ukrainian war would end, or troops be pulled out.
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At the VERY least it interferes strongly with Russian logistics, reserve planning, morale and communication which is already a huge, huge positive for Ukraine. At best the invasion is about to implode completely within the next few days and I doubt Ukraine with its new weaponry will have to give up any territory they recapture in the near future, even if whoever wins the power struggle really decides to come back (chances are he takes the coup as an excuse to stop the war efforts).
 
Superden said:
but they are also fighting in Syria, Libya, the Central African Republic, Mail, North Sudan and Yemen.
I want Putin gone as much as the next man, but a coup by a privately funded multinational paramilitary group that doesn't seem to answer anymore to any state, only its funders? how can that possibly end well.
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Privately funded? It's just the Russian state and client states that fund them. Up until yesterday this was a de facto arm of the Russian state.
 
Superden said:
but they are also fighting in Syria, Libya, the Central African Republic, Mail, North Sudan and Yemen.
I want Putin gone as much as the next man, but a coup by a privately funded multinational paramilitary group that doesn't seem to answer anymore to any state, only its funders? how can that possibly end well.
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Wouldn’t there just be a power vacuum in Russia now that’ll take up their time?
Honestly, if they aren’t as nuke mad then it can only be good for the rest of the world
 
do.ob said:
Things can't be in two places at once. Any vehicle lost in Russia is one vehicle less attacking Ukraine. Any missiles expended at Wagner is one missle less aimed at Urkaine. Wagner moving on Russia probably means tens of thousand Russian soldiers less in Ukraine. Surely that's not so hard to grasp? And besides, Russia imploding is the quickest route to peace anyway.
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Plus both forces will be far mote hesitant to cause civilian casualties in their homeland than in Ukraine since it could cost them domestic support.
 
Champ said:
If this does go to an all out assault for Moscow, it stands to reason that no troops will be brought in from the Ukrainian battlefield, that'd take too long to get any troops there.

Meanwhile attacks are still continuing in Ukraine.
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I don’t understand what you want?

Putin will never back out of Ukraine. Do
You want Wagner group to stop what they’re doing, come to their senses and go back to Ukraine to continue the slaughter and war that’ll likely last years?

Or do you want Wagner to continue with their push on Russian defence putting at risk Russian lives and potentially, country with civil war?

Or do you want them to laydown arms, surrender to Russia and the Ukraine war continues?

There’s no good solution here, so vehemently commenting whilst sitting on the fence does absolutely nothing.

I don’t want the war full stop, it’s fecking shite, but at least this challenge to power is a potential out from the absolute shitstorm we find ourselves in. The other options don’t even have a glimmer of an out.
 
Superden said:
but they are also fighting in Syria, Libya, the Central African Republic, Mail, North Sudan and Yemen.
I want Putin gone as much as the next man, but a coup by a privately funded multinational paramilitary group that doesn't seem to answer anymore to any state, only its funders? how can that possibly end well.
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Wagner's funding isn't really private. It's all from the Russian state. Wagner was created to give Russia more latitude to act overseas without "officially" acting. Their forces in Africa are there for plunder and influence. There's not a secret private cabal running Wagner. Putin just gave Wagner and Prigozhin too many resources and too much independence.
 
Just saw a post from a Russian acquaintance of mine, that Wagner has taken over a prison in Rostov, inviting inmates to join them. Some real life Game of thrones shit.
 
cyberman said:
Wouldn’t there just be a power vacuum in Russia now that’ll take up their time?
Honestly, if they aren’t as nuke mad then it can only be good for the rest of the world
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The issue is that some of the people outside of Putin's bubble are even more radical. Wagner committed terrible atrocities on behalf of Prighozin and guys like Girlin openly opted for the use of tactical nukes.

The best outcome IMO could be that Putin takes home a very costly win and is so weakened that his downfall is only a matter of time, but not to Wagner or other lunatics
 
Champ said:
If this does go to an all out assault for Moscow, it stands to reason that no troops will be brought in from the Ukrainian battlefield, that'd take too long to get any troops there.

Meanwhile attacks are still continuing in Ukraine.
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So... where do you think the Wagner soldiers came from?
 
Adisa said:
Watching your men die by the thousands would drive anyone mad.
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If he really held back ammo to plan for this coup he willingly sacrificed them for his political ambitions. Maybe he took this decision because he witnessed the pointlessness of thr invasion but still
 
Champ said:
Can't believe people are trying to portray this as a good thing.

More war, more civilians at risk, more bloodshed, and if anything an elongation to the current war in respect that we now have a war within a war.
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This is without doubt helping the Ukranians, full stop. That's why it is being portrayed as a positive vis à vis the current war.
 
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