Rugby Union 23/24 Discussion

RoyH1 said:
The Irish kicking game was atrocious. Gotta nail those conversions
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Plus you have to wonder what Keenan brought to the party? Apart from a terrible error that cost us the try that handed Fiji the win. Plus a rushed tap penalty he messed up to give NZ a win in our last group game. He’s such a great player but looks as though he still has a lot to learn about playing 7s. Turns out not everyone takes to it as quickly as the greatest player in the history of rugby!
 
Reckon we get a Fiji-SA final. The South African's are just so strong mentally that I can see them knocking out the french on home soil and spoil the Dupont party
 
Jaminet just got an 8 months suspension for his racist video.
 
Antoine Dupont has waited a tick over 9 months for revenge against South Africa. The question is will he get it?
 
Xaviesta said:
Antoine Dupont has waited a tick over 9 months for revenge against South Africa. The question is will he get it?
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Most likely yes, but IMO hardly revenge - I think he would rather pick lifting the WC trophy as captain in Paris. Still something though.
 
Fiji gave Australia a proper shellacking. Have to be massive favorites against France even with the latter having the whole stadium behind them.
 
Sanzaar is implementing a 20 minutes red card for the Rugby Championship. I like it.
 
Isn't this just going to dilute the work they've done in relation to head contact and concussions?

It seems like a sop to those who never fully got onboard.
 
Withnail said:
Isn't this just going to dilute the work they've done in relation to head contact and concussions?

It seems like a sop to those who never fully got onboard.
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They haven't done any good work. They have been ignoring the main source of problem which is rucks and focused on phases that create impressive video clips but are highly debatable from a context standpoint. With this they can and should systematically red card reckless players in rucks which should happen often.
 
JPRouve said:
They haven't done any good work. They have been ignoring the main source of problem which is rucks and focused on phases that create impressive video clips but are highly debatable from a context standpoint. With this they can and should systematically red card reckless players in rucks which should happen often.
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Ok well to me, a casual observer, there's been a reduction in head on head collisions that the likes of Sexton would concuss himself with regularly.

Have they said they would ref rucks more aggressively off the back of this?
 
JPRouve said:
They haven't done any good work. They have been ignoring the main source of problem which is rucks and focused on phases that create impressive video clips but are highly debatable from a context standpoint. With this they can and should systematically red card reckless players in rucks which should happen often.
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Are rucks really the main source of the problem? They definitely contribute but even purely from a physics perspective, brain trauma from shoulder/head contact in a clear out is going to be less extreme than when two players collide, running in the opposite direction, during a reckless tackle.

I’ve no data to back this up but from watching rugby you do seem to see players knocked out - or obviously concussed - more often during contact in open play than you do during contact at ruck.

Where rucks have a danger you don’t get in open play is not so much concussion as the risk of spinal trauma, or lower limb injury from croc rolls etc
 
Withnail said:
Ok well to me, a casual observer, there's been a reduction in head on head collisions that the likes of Sexton would concuss himself with regularly.

Have they said they would ref rucks more aggressively off the back of this?
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They added instructions to protect scrum-halfves in rucks and the rationale is to sanction the players and not the game. One of the reason refs don't sanction certain phases even though the rules dictates it, is that it would kill games within minutes.

Also one important thing to mention is that too many ball carriers create their own injuries by slighly changing levels in close quarters or by target the wrong shoulders. And it's never going to change unless we move to flag Rugby.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are rucks really the main source of the problem? They definitely contribute but even purely from a physics person, brain trauma from shoulder/head contact in a clear out is going to be less extreme then when two players collide, running in the opposite direction, during a reckless tackle.
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Yes, these head collision happen in pretty much all rucks, in pretty much all cleaning phases. Which is a lot more common than a high tackle.
 
JPRouve said:
They added instructions to protect scrum-halfves in rucks and the rationale is to sanction the players and not the game. One of the reason refs don't sanction certain phases even though the rules dictates it, is that it would kill games within minutes.

Also one important thing to mention is that too many ball carriers create their own injuries by slighly changing levels in close quarters or by target the wrong shoulders. And it's never going to change unless we move to flag Rugby.
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Thanks for the info. I've found an article on it. Ok so for some offences it's a red where the player can be replaced after 20 mins and they're keeping the full Red for high levels of danger anyway.

https://www.barrons.com/news/20-minute-red-cards-to-be-used-in-rugby-championship-9b847c8d
 
JPRouve said:
Yes, these head collision happen in pretty much all rucks, in pretty much all cleaning phases. Which is a lot more common than a high tackle.
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I guess that makes sense. You’re probably getting 10 mild/moderate brain traumas at rucks for every one, more severe, brain trauma in a reckless tackle. And the mild/moderate traumas add up over time.

They have all the data to hand though. Using those gumshield accelerometer devices. So I’m sure that will inform any decisions.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I guess that makes sense. You’re probably getting 10 mild/moderate brain traumas at rucks for every one, more severe, brain trauma in a reckless tackle. And the mild/moderate traumas add up over time.

They have all the data to hand though. Using those gumshield accelerometer devices. So I’m sure that will inform any decisions.
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I actually remember something about that, iirc Rugby and Boxing were the main source and from what I understand regular small concussions are as bad or worse than isolated big ones.
 
If anybody other than yours truly tunes in for the upcoming Rugby Championship (can we get a better name please?), these are all the law variations to keep any eye out for.

2024 LAW VARIATIONS: THE RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP

1) RED CARD

In the event foul play is determined to be deliberate and with a high level of danger it will result in a full red card for the offending player who will not return to the field nor be able to be replaced.

All other Red Cards that do not meet the above threshold will be 20 min Red Cards in which the offending player will be removed from the match but will be entitled to be replaced by another player after 20 minutes. The offending team will then be able to replace the red carded player with one of their available replacements.

Rationale: the individual, not the game, punished for red card offences.

2) COUNTDOWN CLOCK FOR SCRUM, LINEOUTS AND KICKS AT GOAL.

a) Conversion & Penalty: A player will have 60 seconds to kick at goal [conversion] from when a try is scored; or 60 seconds to kick at goal [penalty] from time referee is informed of kick at goal option. If a player exceeds this time limit the conversion kick shall not count/be kicked – play restarts at the centre mark; for a Penalty a scrum is awarded to the non-kicking team at the place of the penalty.

b) Scrum: A scrum must be set 30 seconds from when the mark for scrum is made by the referee. A Free Kick shall be awarded at place of scrum against the team causing the delay.

c) Lineout: A lineout must be formed 30 seconds from the AR signalling the place of the lineout. A free kick shall be awarded on 15-metre line against team causing the delay.

Rationale: Speed up ball returning to play after a score, kick for touch or scrum.

3) PROTECTION OF THE NINE AT THE BASE OF THE SCRUM, RUCK AND AT THE MAUL

Ruck: A player who was part of the ruck may not play an opponent who is near it, and who is attempting to play the ball away. ‘Near’ is defined in Law as being “within one metre”. Sanction: Penalty

Maul: A player who is part of the maul may not play an opponent near it, and who is attempting to play the ball away. Sanction: Penalty

Scrum: Once play in the scrum begins, the scrum-half of the team not in possession must take up a position with both feet no further than the centre line of the tunnel; or permanently retires to a point on the offside line either at that team’s hindmost foot, or permanently retires at least five metres behind the hindmost foot. Sanction: Penalty.

Rationale – all three measures allow the scrum half, or player in that role, to play the ball away cleanly from the phase of play without disruption.

4) PLAY ON FOR A LINEOUT NOT STRAIGHT IF THE THROW IN IS UNCONTESTED.

Law dictates that the ball must be thrown straight into the lineout.

However, if the defending team are not lifted to compete for the ball, then play shall continue in the instance a throw may appear not straight.

If the defending team lift a teammate to compete for the ball and a throw is not deemed not straight by referee then they shall be offered the option of a lineout or scrum. If the lineout is chosen and the ball is again not thrown straight, a scrum is awarded to the team that originally threw in the ball.

Rationale: Doesn’t force a stop in play where no material offence has taken place.
 
I should also say that the tournament opener between Australia and South Africa at the magnificent Lang Park is Brisbane is sold out, which means 52,500 tickets have been sold. It's the first time 'The cauldron' has been sold out for a rugby test since the first test against the British & Irish Lions in 2013. For a sport that has had its struggles, had people enjoying its demise, been called 'dead' and rugby yawnion, it's great to see a test sold out at a venue that can hold more than 50,000.
 
Xaviesta said:
I should also say that the tournament opener between Australia and South Africa at the magnificent Lang Park is Brisbane is sold out, which means 52,500 tickets have been sold. It's the first time 'The cauldron' has been sold out for a rugby test since the first test against the British & Irish Lions in 2013. For a sport that has had its struggles, had people enjoying its demise, been called 'dead' and rugby yawnion, it's great to see a test sold out at a venue that can hold more than 50,000.
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Bit too early in the U.K. this one. I’m also a bit too full of last nights steak orgy to get downstairs to the tele. I’ve seen the score though. How’s the actual match?
 
T00lsh3d said:
Bit too early in the U.K. this one. I’m also a bit too full of last nights steak orgy to get downstairs to the tele. I’ve seen the score though. How’s the actual match?
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This match is playing out how I feared it would. They've smashed us physically and in the set pieces but they've shown real innovation with the ball. When they applied a bit of pressure, our guys shit themselves on attack. Joe Schmidt has his work cut out. Reality has well and truly bitten today after a positive July.
 
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