He didnt evolve formations. He made tweaks like moving a wingback to midfield to overload the midfield. And Klopp played the same 4-3-3 at Dortmund and Liverpool. The posters here are asking Amorim to play 4 at the back. Thats a change in formation meaning the way we play is completely different.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
Things are incredibly shit right now but I believe in this man long term. The board need to pull their finger out and radically change this squad though. First thing we need to fix is the physicality. Bring in players who are cheap but are physical specimens who put in a real shift. Amorim can work with that. The quality can come later. We'll have to complement that with 4/5 youth options that also have the physical qualities.
He accepted that relegation is a possibility in his post game interview. What a time to be alive.
I am sick of all those posts on internet who are absolutely convinced he is the guy and losing consecutive games is the way to success.
Maybe he is, maybe not. But it is not a given. Ineos is also a huge work in progress with their decisions still hardly reliable and question marks on what they are doing.
Maybe he is, maybe not. But it is not a given. Ineos is also a huge work in progress with their decisions still hardly reliable and question marks on what they are doing.
They didn't adjust, they started implementing their systems immediately. It took while for both them to get going. Both had the benefit of a more suitable squad of players that fit their system. Pep took over a league winning team and Klopp took over a team that took the league title down to the last match.
Amorim has taken over a shit show.
If he was pragmatic he would switch to the system these players know, to at least finish at a non embarrassing place in the table, then buy suitable players in the summer (cant do so in January) They lost games in the previous system but never such a nose dive. And what RvN tried is actually better than EtH's version, so there is some compromise.
Let's say current players are really dim and can't ever learn/play his system. Everything Amorim has said points to the fact he'll continue trying to teach them, whatever the results. That's him being dogmatic.
So I guess you didnt hear him speak or ready anything I said cause its clearly explained why he shouldnt change the formation to a back 4.
When you take the suicidal option of starting with Eriksen & Casemiro in central MF; and Zirkzee on the left of a front 3.. and then, after 30 mins, have to sub in Mainoo into CM, hang Zirkzee out to dry and push Eriksen to LW; sorry that's on the manager/head coach...
He's 100% out of his depth.
He's 100% out of his depth.
Agree. It's been too long since we had some proper physical bastards on the pitch and by bastard I mean people like Stam, Vidic, Zlatan etc.
Looked frustrated tonight. Like a man standing on the edge of the bridgewater canal, barking tactical instructions to a confused family of sitting ducks.
I’m not sure what magical formation wouldn’t require CB’s to head the ball?
If they need months of training and diagrams to explain that basic principle then we are truly fecked.
Amazing how the “playing 3 at the back” will become the latest excuse.
If they need months of training and diagrams to explain that basic principle then we are truly fecked.
Amazing how the “playing 3 at the back” will become the latest excuse.
I've seen this argument plenty tonight. Why is everyone talking as if he Bruno and Ugarte on the bench and he chose to go with Zirkzee and Eriksen? Mainoo started the last 2 games and he has said injuries have been a problem so he needs to manage the squad better. So he wasnt going to risk Mainoo by starting him 3 games in a row. So btw Mainoo did not have a good game at Wolves. So it could be performance related as well.
Lets look at the options at #10 - Rashford wasnt going to start for obvious reasons. Garnacho is the only other option and he didnt exactly set the world alight when he came on. At least Mainoo put in a good performance tonight. Who else is there to play as a #10 other than Zirkzee?
And Ashworth knew all this stuff. He argued these points and was outvoted so left.
I think we will regret his departure.
"I don't have another one"?? Oooof.. My prayers are out for Ruben already.
I really really really hope that his 343 at it's peak is some God's work of art.
His pressers are brilliant. Don't think ive ever seen such an honest manager. I think it will stand to him.
It feels alittle like he’s picked up the rock and shined a light on all the woodlice scrambling.
Rather than put it back and maintain some normalcy he will work with that until they’ve left.
The players that have been allowed to hide and be protected will leave quickly. There ego doesnt like being exposed so easily. The board also have no option but to support new signig
This feels like the only instance of him being dogmatic. He’s just got shit squad depth in addition to some weak links in his first team.
Rather than put it back and maintain some normalcy he will work with that until they’ve left.
The players that have been allowed to hide and be protected will leave quickly. There ego doesnt like being exposed so easily. The board also have no option but to support new signig
Didn’t Amorim say he puts importance on condition of players so he will interchange regularly?
This feels like the only instance of him being dogmatic. He’s just got shit squad depth in addition to some weak links in his first team.
It’s funny because the Caf was insistent that he move Amad to the no10 position and play Mazraoui at WB. Not saying you held this view, but many did and are now complaining. The sooner everybody realises that there’s no way of making this team function, the better. 343/4231/433 it doesn’t matter, all can and will be exploited. I never thought I’d say this but we need Mount back pronto, we miss his work rate and pressing ability. Bruno has to be in every game. Amad at WB maybe, or even try Antony. Garnacho looks like he’s won a competition to play every time he comes in so he’s not an option.
It’s a staggering mess right now. We’re heading for a relegation scrap, there’s no two ways about it.
If your making serious structural changes to your team after 30 mins you've fecked up with your selection.
Sure I did. But the results are much worse than anyone ever predicted. If the Swiss cheese holes align , we legit might end up in a relegation scrap. Are you going to accept that hoping the players manage to "be convinced" (Amorim's words) , learn the system and fight for staying up in the league?
Let's be honest this scenario is a lot more likelier than a month ago. I don't see any effort or fight in this players apart from one or two.
So according to you if we switch back to a 4-2-3-1 he can get a tune out of the players?
It feels the system needs one attacking wingback and one of the 10s to be fast with the ability to get ahead of the striker. He started with that approach and it was working ok. However, he’s since ditched Rashford and Garnacho and keeps picking Dalot and Maz as the width. Frustrating.
Fascinating to see what we do in January. The league is now a complete write off (just need to avoid getting dragged towards the bottom 3) so the only thing to really look forward to is the UEFA. He’s going to have to show some progress over the rest of the season.
Fascinating to see what we do in January. The league is now a complete write off (just need to avoid getting dragged towards the bottom 3) so the only thing to really look forward to is the UEFA. He’s going to have to show some progress over the rest of the season.
I read a report that he’s only had 4 training sessions which seems bizarre but when you look at his fixtures he’s played 11 games in 34 days so it could possibly be true
11 days of matches followed by recovery days especially with so many matches and I bet it’s not far off
11 days of matches followed by recovery days especially with so many matches and I bet it’s not far off
Does Antony have it in him? Where are the signs of this?
Ten Hag couldn't get much out of him and his was "his man" from Ajax?
His answers in the presser about the system are good. The endless press questions about the formation really are childish. I dont know why people hold up the 'formation' as the most important thing, even people that were managers albeit extremely unsuccessful like neville.
yes. Because that's what they've shown to be capable of doing (won a couple of trophies that way) and , more importantly, seem to prefer it. Something ridiculous to say 15 years ago but apparently now and in this club players have a say in tactics and need to be convinced. Because of the absurd amount of money they are on, and the club unable to spend freely on the market.
Yup. He is trying to change the car tyre while driving. Not going to work.
I think he underestimated quite how dense, unfit, untalented and unmotivated some of these players are.
Ten Hag left him with absolute dross. He spent £650mil and is there one signing that you would want to build a side around?
They showed they were capable of playing in a 4-2-3-1? Then why was the previous manager sacked and why were we 13th when he was sacked? Why was our goal difference in the negative last year. Why did we finish 8th last year?
It’s madness most of our goals conceded are from corners or crosses as if playing 4 at the back would eliminate that
You’re right to an extent, but there’s also no accounting for the sort of performance Zirkzee put in tonight. To make matters worse, seemingly most of our team can do that on any given day. At least he saw it and reacted, but the damage was done by then unfortunately. Let’s just hope he learns from it and doesn’t do it again.
He said it’d take a few weeks to figure out his best team and he’s clearly not done that yet. But I also would struggle to pick an 11 right now also. There’s maybe 3 or 4 players that have arguably claimed their spot right now. And the best one is Amad, and people still can’t decide where they’d play him! That just says it all really. Not sure how he sorts this one right now, we desperately need more players to start performing. Even the likes of Mazraoui has gone off the boil. I was hoping Mainoo would come back into some sort of form but he’s been useless wherever he’s played. It’s a real mess.
It was the first performance since he came here that really caused me to have some doubts. All the previous losses were bad but we were actually decent against Forest and Bournemouth and lost to dumb mistakes he couldn’t have prevented, and at Wolves we were down to 10 men very early into second half which didn’t help.
Tonight, not having Ugarte or Bruno was always going to be tough against one of the best midfields in the league, but I don’t get why he persisted with two full backs at wing back when it has repeatedly shown to not work and removes any threat we ever had on the flanks. 343 is reliant on having dynamic wingers, you can’t pull it off with both Dalot and Mazraoui.
I still trust him to get it right and he has the benefit of doubt. He’s a very young coach, he will learn from these setbacks.
Tonight, not having Ugarte or Bruno was always going to be tough against one of the best midfields in the league, but I don’t get why he persisted with two full backs at wing back when it has repeatedly shown to not work and removes any threat we ever had on the flanks. 343 is reliant on having dynamic wingers, you can’t pull it off with both Dalot and Mazraoui.
I still trust him to get it right and he has the benefit of doubt. He’s a very young coach, he will learn from these setbacks.
There really nothing wrong with prime Ruben’s 3421bit it must have the correct players. However it needs two players for each positions and right now if we are looking at a First and Second 11
This is what we need;
First 11
New GK
L Yoro(RCB)
New CB
New LCB
Amad RWB
M Ugarte DM
K Mainoo CM
New LWB
New R10
New L10
New Number 9
2nd 11
A Onana
MDL
H Maguire
L Shaw
N Mazraoui
D Gore
T Collyer
D Leon
S Lacey
Bruno
R Hojlund
All the other players can be sold A Bayinder, V Lindelof, L Martinez, L Shaw,, D Dalot , Casemiro, C Eriksen, Antony, M Rashford, J Zirkzee, A Garnaucho, J Sancho(obligation) all can be sold to help finance the 7 first team players we need.to play his system?
If we can’t get him these players we should part ways with him and let him go back to sporting?
This is what we need;
First 11
New GK
L Yoro(RCB)
New CB
New LCB
Amad RWB
M Ugarte DM
K Mainoo CM
New LWB
New R10
New L10
New Number 9
2nd 11
A Onana
MDL
H Maguire
L Shaw
N Mazraoui
D Gore
T Collyer
D Leon
S Lacey
Bruno
R Hojlund
All the other players can be sold A Bayinder, V Lindelof, L Martinez, L Shaw,, D Dalot , Casemiro, C Eriksen, Antony, M Rashford, J Zirkzee, A Garnaucho, J Sancho(obligation) all can be sold to help finance the 7 first team players we need.to play his system?
If we can’t get him these players we should part ways with him and let him go back to sporting?
The results were unsatisfactory. The results now are disastrous . I'd say they were more capable of producing the odd result in the previous system.
But we won the cups.
It is quite bizarre that the media narrative was "these players will get any manager sacked".
Now it's, "this formation is not right for these players". They were shit in a 433.
Casemiro and Eriksen wont find their legs and lungs in a 433. Rashford won't suddenly become interested again in a 433. Mount wont find fitness in a 433. Martinez wont start winning duels in a 433. Onana wont stop making howlers in a 433 and Hojlund wont suddenly learn to hold the ball up and link up play in a 433.
The one good thing about United is that we finally have a top tier manager with personality and drive. Get behind him. The road may be rocky until the end of the season, but give him a summer and a window or two to build something. The man has hardly had a training session to work with this bunch of dross who week in, week out, make stupid individual errors.
Wow so you dont even care if we play well, if we dominate, if we play in a proper system. You just want the odd result like we got with Ten Hag? And results were only unsatisfactory under Ten Hag? They weren't disastrous?
Ok! Atleast Amorim is trying to do the right thing and said so himself there will be short term pain hopefully for long term success. But you are happy with short term gain?Well at least he’s telling it as it is. Ten Hag would have actually complimented tonight’s performance, likewise all previous losses.Wow so you dont even care if we play well, if we dominate, if we play in a proper system. You just want the odd result like we got with Ten Hag? And results were only unsatisfactory under Ten Hag? They weren't disastrous?
Some context. We lost 3-0 to Bournemouth last season too. We scraped a 97 min winner v Wolves away last season (with 11 men on the pitch) and only won the home game thanks to the ref not giving them a late pen for Onana taking out their forward. Newcastle are one of the form team in the Prem and we are without most of our midfied.
What I want is to not be in a relegation scrap. Another thing I would prefer is if a group of players cannot learn a system or are ill equipped for it , then stop trying to empirically define insanity. Use what they are capable for temporarily and then buy the players you need in the summer . That's the pragmatic approach. Because it may well turn out the current group is not suited to this system. And you cannot replace the group in January.Wow so you dont even care if we play well, if we dominate, if we play in a proper system. You just want the odd result like we got with Ten Hag? And results were only unsatisfactory under Ten Hag? They weren't disastrous?
Fully supporting this, he is not selling out his vision to adapt to those cnuts like Ralf did, regardless of the outcome, if he fails its on his terms
Exactly. He had time to develop that great system at Sporting. He needs certain pieces to make it work and time to get the players to learn it. With this lot, that does seem a while away because, as we see tonight, some cant even do the basics well. We have a forward who cant hold up the ball and a midget center back who cant defend a cross - The Butcher has been blunted!
Considering the majority of fans haven't even watched a Sporting game, I think Amorim is best places to work out what he feels is best for his system, with the limited resources he has currently. If he thinks its better to play Maz and Dallot at wing back, then im sure it is because he thinks other would be worse. Though unfortunately, without airing the dirty laundry, a manager cant give his real reasons, so all we hear is one opinion from the pundits like Jamie Carragher. Even though his points re Maz and Dallot may be valid, I think the man who won titles with this system knows better.
United have invested in Amorim not just to get a quick bounce, it is for the long term.
Some of you lot wouldn't be much good with investments. You would sell your stock at the first sign of a dip.