Yeah, agreed. Despite our woes this season, every loss is still a catastrophe, every scraped point against mediocre opposition still has an asterisk beside it. It's OK for us to just celebrate results.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) talk about the proposed new stadium, season ticket prices, Sir Jim Ratcliffe and all things INEOS after the first year of their co-ownership.
They also discuss back-to-back victories vs. Real Sociedad and Leicester City - was this the best week for Amorim so far?
Think what concerns people is the league form. From that list, it's four league wins, right?
The only person in this thread who claims the squad is good enough for 4th-6th is obsessed with ETH and clearly hasn't gotten over him. So it's a fair point.
Correlation doesn't mean causation, but point taken
We have 15 out of 30 league points so far this calendar year - 4 wins, 3 draws, 3 losses. All of this happened during Hojlund's long dry spell. The consecutive losses to Palace and Spurs were probably the low point. Things seem to have improved a bit since then.
Oh I'm definitely sceptical, however, I'm intentionally looking at just Amorim's time, which for the most part (bar Europa) has been worse. And the tiny shoot of optimism for is the "run" you mention. I don't think we've really had that (might be wrong). Especially 2 wins after doing well in a big game. It feels like immediately after offering false hope in the big matches since RA arrived, we proceed to serve up horror shows straight after in 'smaller' games.
the attacking squad that Amorim inherited is absolutely shocking for this level but ffs we knew after the first month before ETH got sacked
the change in system actually only enhanced the lack of attacking quality and options within the squad
the change in system actually only enhanced the lack of attacking quality and options within the squad
The current group of players that Amorim has available to him are far weaker than the group that Ten Hag available to him, and that was after spending close to a billion quid. The likes of Antony, Sancho, Rashford etc aren't bad players, they're just bad players at the price we got them for, they're not bad 'options' at the right price, and I'm sure Amorim would prefer to have them available to him if presented with them or nothing. Ten Hag under performed in every way, hence the reason he got sacked, now we're cleaning up the mess he and the previous management team left behind.
The other thing to note is the amount of injuries we are contending with and having to loan players out to leave us literally zero attacking options in some games on the bench.
Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, Yoro, Evans, Dorgu all defenders missing yesterday and then Heaven going off injured. Barely a word said about 6-7 defenders unavailable.
Add Amad, Mainoo, Mount injured and Sancho, Rashford, Anthony and Malacia out on loan and theres a lot going on to contend with.
Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, Yoro, Evans, Dorgu all defenders missing yesterday and then Heaven going off injured. Barely a word said about 6-7 defenders unavailable.
Add Amad, Mainoo, Mount injured and Sancho, Rashford, Anthony and Malacia out on loan and theres a lot going on to contend with.
I would be interested to see a table of injuries per PL team and most time out. I feel like we're rivalling Spurs now.
The likes of Garnacho, Amad, and Bruno are more than adequate. He just didn't inherit a capable striker, which is the #1 reason we are in 13th instead of 6th or better. Each of the three losses during the Christmas break to Newcastle, Bournemouth, and Wolves, and the two Feb losses to Palace and Spurs - not a single goal scored by United.
I felt when we played Spurs we were even worse off than they were and again it was them getting all the pity. That was the day we had Victor Lindelof babysitting 8 on the bench
I hate when people rate a squad so narrowly as 4th to 6th. That isn't how this works, if the players are out of form, demoralised, struggling with tactics then the fall isn't just two places.
If this lot were in top form and if Rashford was willing it probably could get that 4th to 6th place but for a variety of reasons this season it hasn't and isn't. The range of this squad is more 4th to 14th, largely due to inexperience, age, mentality issues.
It isn't just the players that Amorim inherited that are the issue it's all the considerations above that can't be magically undone at the flick of a switch. We're rebuilding from that low base level.
If this lot were in top form and if Rashford was willing it probably could get that 4th to 6th place but for a variety of reasons this season it hasn't and isn't. The range of this squad is more 4th to 14th, largely due to inexperience, age, mentality issues.
It isn't just the players that Amorim inherited that are the issue it's all the considerations above that can't be magically undone at the flick of a switch. We're rebuilding from that low base level.
I completely agree with you. I posted this response to Cathy Ferguson on February 13th:
"Patterns of play. Positioning. Moving without having to think first. Pressing as units. CBs stepping into voids. etc etc. A lot of what RA wants us to do is slowly starting to happen. The problem is two-fold, in my opinion. First, our players are lacking in decision making, physicality, and playing at fast tempo. Second, our players lack the tenacity and determination required to recycle possession regularly in the current era of premier league football."
That’s far better form than what I had in my head for some reason
We sound very RAWKish: beating a woeful Sociedad and then soon to be relegated Leicester, and people are saying the revolution is here. I think we would have been hard pressed to lose either of those, such were the state of our opposition.
We will be brought back down to earth soon enough.
Holy feck that's nowhere near as bad as I'd have thought especially when you think with what he's working with. Definitely heading in the right direction.
In the summer I think we'll see a lot of Dorgu/Heaven type signings i.e. not extraordinarily expensive in the grand scheme of things (granted Heaven's price not going to be all the time) and also not on massively stupid money so there's an incentive for them to play for a bigger contract.
Think the understanding of the new style is growing. Now it is easier to bring in youth players. I was a bit frustrated at him for not trusting the u21 against spurs but I think he was right to wait for a more settled team.
yes, those 3 are more than adequate...more so Bruno on a consistent basis....but yes the bigger problem is no striker who worries teams to score
the sheer lack of adequate depth is the most concerning part when we are having rely on unproven academy kids as the main source of depth in the attacking spots...again b/c of proven players like antony, sancho, rashford couldn't adapt properly or be arsed to do any sort of work
The youth team have been playing his formation and tactics since he arrived and they’re smashing the league. He’s not picking them because they’re not ready for the physicality of first team football, but the one that are will slowly be integrated and get minutes.
I don‘t agree: last season we weren‘t far off top four, really, and we had a gazillion injuries. Our problems were mostly backline and midfield.
The argument that our players aren‘t good enough for top six doesn‘t hold up to any scrutiny.
We finished 8th last season and we didn't deserve to at all. You can point to injuries, but tactically we were a mess. You can disagree, but it's the truth. We just haven't got enough out of our front three.
That's fair.
Its quite interesting this... players are not good enough for top 6. Really, our players are good enough for top 4.
For me, I generally say, the teams that keep players the fittest, does better. The reason why Arsenal were challengers last few seasons, no injuries, Liverpool this season and even Chelsea.
I have watched Chelsea play, their players are not that much better than ours.
We have not had a consistent team selection since Amorim came. Our spine has been injured / unavailable.
Obviously, we do have loads of players that are overpaid and underperforming too.
We've also alot of players who aren't that good
I had been very critical of Amorim for not giving youth more game time. But picking Heaven ahead of Lindelof against sociedad is what I want to see. So kudos to him for giving Heaven more game time and yesterday giving Amass game time too. That's what we need to do. We need to develop more of our youth into our squad, can't be spending on squad players.
Also I think we should be looking at the performances for the real encouragement not the results. We've played well in 4 matches in a row, starting against Arsenal 2nd half mainly which was us playing well in their half and not just counter attacking.
Also I think we should be looking at the performances for the real encouragement not the results. We've played well in 4 matches in a row, starting against Arsenal 2nd half mainly which was us playing well in their half and not just counter attacking.
Of course it holds up to scrutiny. Finishing “not far off” the top four last season means feck all. It’s this season’s squad that we’re assessing here. The squad that was in 14th place, under the same manager as last season, when Ten Haag was sacked. Why do you think that happened if the squad was good enough for top four and couldn’t possibly be bad enough to finish outside the top six?
Rashford was a massive issue, he was decisive and dealt with it immediately. Put under immense pressure, but he was decisive and steadfast and said he wouldn’t change. Garnacho was on the verge of kicking off, but as a young player, his approach has again been decisive, disciplinarian but offering him a way back, which he has taken.
I am really impressed so far with his leadership qualities and his confidence in his own ideas and abilities. I really think we are in good hands.
I am really impressed so far with his leadership qualities and his confidence in his own ideas and abilities. I really think we are in good hands.
Compared to other top 4 teams, it’s only Bruno who stands out. Amad has come along but Garnacho still should be breaking through realistically.
But agreed about the striker situation.
Beat Leicester and suddenly the squad is top 4 material 
Its all about getting the players to play as a team, which we haven't done with any consistency. Forest are currently third with a group of players a vast majority of casual fans have probably never heard of. None of them are considered better than Amad and Garnacho. More broadly, the likes of Elanga, Martinelli, Trossard, Sancho, Nkuku, and Madueke aren't exactly world beaters, its just that their teams are well coached and they have enough reliable goal scorers to win games.
That‘s the question isn‘t it? I don‘t have all the answers, but I‘d say the inconsistency of our young forward line, Rashford letting us down, a new system that wasn‘t working (yet), previous issues persisting.
This season‘s squad is better than last season‘s, without a doubt. Think back on all the different backlines we had because of injuries.
So, the explanation that the squad deserves to be where it is doesn‘t compute to me.
That 15/20 minute part of the game yesterday where the fans just sang the new chant on loop is probably my favourite moment of the season.
2 wins against 2 of the statistically worst teams the PL has ever seen helps that you do have to beat them all though, we'll see this next run of games after the international break whether anything has truly improved in my opinion, I remain sceptical about the nature of the formation but the last games has seen goals and attacking hopefully gives the team confidence
But we were playing an 18 year old CB before Heaven started getting games.
I think he's done really well at blending the youth in.
We did lose 4 in a row before that though.
Forest and United are both outliers. Wood and Höjlund are having freakish seasons. If we can get a striker who scores 18 goals next season then we can reach top 6 with some luck. Play Höjlund and it is 10-14th.
Forest have 2 great CBs, Gibbs White, Andersson and so on. Very underrated players.
Which makes the last 3 months more impressive.
It was obvious very early on it was such a change to the players they had no idea what they were meant to be doing, and I had no concern about bad results.
Hopefully it’s slowly coming together and clicking for them as a team.
We played easy to win easy games. Thats changed
If we get a proper striker it could actually propel us into league contention next year. By proper I mean Osimhen or Gyokeres. Bottom line, we need a striker who can bag about 25 or more goals next season as that would take a lot of pressure off the other attackers to carry the water for our misfiring #9.