Why have a transfer market at all? Just give all that money to these genius managers that can 'find solutions' to having bad players.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Is Pep the median marker now? Pep is an anomaly. You know that. He has is own issues with financial doping.
Plus, did Joe Hart, make Pep not win 2 league games on the bounce after 4 months as a manager?
Answer me, what will it take for Amorim to win 2 league games on the bounce? What? More time like 6 months or more money or new shining signings?
Nope I'm saying he should be doing better but nowhere as better as others think.
In the same way there's a limit to how far SAF could take a conference side there's a limit on this squad.
Ive been watching a lot of these YouTube tactical analysis videos of Amorim and his sporting team. One thing that has stood out was how crucial the back 3 were during the build up play. They were all very good on the ball, didn't panic when pressed, knew how to beat the press with their passing and positioning.
If you look at our back 3 now, Maguire, as ok as he has done defensively, is actually a hinderence during the build up play because he is poor on the ball and doesn't like to move up the pitch.
One other interesting point was that the WBs were hardly used during the build up play, quite often they just acted as decoys to keep the opposition winger occupied whilst the CBs advanced with the ball. This was clearly evident in the sporting v arsenal match. Huge contrast to here, where because our CBs are not very good on the ball, they usually end up passing the ball to the WBs, they have nowhere to pass because we're outnumbered so either pass is back to the CB or hoof it long. We end up losing the ball or end up in this zombie like motion, passing the ball endlessly in our backline.
Bruno dropping deep (almost as a CB) has helped somewhat because he can pass and beat the press, but that then means we lose a body in midfield.
If you look at our back 3 now, Maguire, as ok as he has done defensively, is actually a hinderence during the build up play because he is poor on the ball and doesn't like to move up the pitch.
One other interesting point was that the WBs were hardly used during the build up play, quite often they just acted as decoys to keep the opposition winger occupied whilst the CBs advanced with the ball. This was clearly evident in the sporting v arsenal match. Huge contrast to here, where because our CBs are not very good on the ball, they usually end up passing the ball to the WBs, they have nowhere to pass because we're outnumbered so either pass is back to the CB or hoof it long. We end up losing the ball or end up in this zombie like motion, passing the ball endlessly in our backline.
Bruno dropping deep (almost as a CB) has helped somewhat because he can pass and beat the press, but that then means we lose a body in midfield.
This debate over how much a manager can do.
We've got countless examples of what happens to a team and manager when just a few players are missing. Even the very best managers suddenly start struggling. Look at Pep this season. Look at Klopp when he lost his CB's. Even Fergie when we had a few bad transfer windows.
Once the game starts it's all about players. The managers biggest influence is creating that team in the first place. Getting a good mix of players who blend well.
If that part is wrong, if the talent and mix of qualities isn't right, very little any manager can do.
We've got countless examples of what happens to a team and manager when just a few players are missing. Even the very best managers suddenly start struggling. Look at Pep this season. Look at Klopp when he lost his CB's. Even Fergie when we had a few bad transfer windows.
Once the game starts it's all about players. The managers biggest influence is creating that team in the first place. Getting a good mix of players who blend well.
If that part is wrong, if the talent and mix of qualities isn't right, very little any manager can do.
Fair enough, we have a relegation side
Amorim HAS NOT won 2 Consecutive league games since he was appointed. Since November 2024 he hasn't.
Is that underperformance or being out of your depth?
Or we blame the squad quality for not winning 2 games on the bounce.
People are being guilty-tripped by 'manager cult group' that cant win 2 games consecutively..
It was yourself who brought Pep up. I'm just responding to that. Pep has spent more than any manager. But the most successful managers are nearly always the biggest spenders.
Why is that if a mangers biggest attribute is adapting to the players available?
Amorim needs his forwards to score some goals. Can't win games when your front three has two goals between them in over two month. From there some confidence comes back, which the lack of is without doubt making us worse than we are.
They don't spend the most to keep their side above the relegation zone, at this point we're barely playing the same sport as those best managers
It's a fair point but I don't think any of those teams were THIS bad on form. We were 17th in the table since Amorim came in last time I checked.
Happy to give the guy a few more months but if by May we've shown no improvement then probably best to cut our losses and try somebody else.
Managers don't play
Absolutely.
As poor players we have signed since 2013, we have signed extremely poor coaches.
The football heritage Mourinho rant,
'Do they play, if they play,
'Where do they play,'
Twist it with 'Do they manage, if they coach, and where do they coach'
Any manager who has moved from us and gone to have a stellar coaching career? No one.
As Lingard, Martial, Pogba as players went into oblivion is how Moyes, LVG, Moyes, Ole, ETH all went into the dark hole.
When we will get a good coach, it will be extremely visible from the start.
But we were 13th when he took over and trending downwards.
He's dropped 3 or 4 positions. Probably the same as Pep/City this season after losing just Rodri.
Liverpool absolutely collapsed when they lost their CB's under Klopp. Set a record for not scoring at Anfield didn't they?
We know the vast majority of these players need replacing. I can't judge a manager until he gets a chance to do that.
We were diabolically bad before the injuries already, they're just a convenient excuse
How did i bring Pep when it's you who said it.
So, Amorim will win 2 consecutive games after getting new Forwards..
Who is this good coach then? Because we shouldn't bother with transfers this summer and pay him whatever it takes to get him because he'll turn Hojlund etc into world beaters.
In the very post of yours I replied to you used Pep to criticise Amorim.
Then told me I can't bring Pep into this because he's an anomaly.
see below.
Amorim took over against Ipswich at Game week 12.
We had 15 points before that game.
He has managed 16 games to date in the league.
We have 33 points now.
Amorim has earned 18 points in 16 games he has managed for us. After today against Arsenal it will be 17 games with at most 18-19 points..
Thats mid way point of a season game with less than 20 points
20 points is just winning 7 games
What happened for Fergie to go from really struggling ar United for years to becoming dominant?
Obviously we know the manager stayed the same.
So what happened for such a shift in performances to take place?
Do the opposite, and dont get poor managers first. Same as Hojlund cant turn into R9 is same Amorim wont turn into Klopp 90+ points consistent team
Also, as there are poor players, there are poor managers. Both can exist in the same club. Sadly its in our club.
I was replying to Madrid selling Benzema and having better scoring records.
As Pep won the league without a striker.
Klopp won the league with Firmino.
Arteta hits 85+ points with Havertz.
Great managers know how to construct a team to win more matches than others.
But Amorim has barely spent anything yet.
I don’t understand any fan looking at our forwards and goalkeeper then being shocked at where we are. Good defenders, which we have, can't compensate for that.
The only way I could understand the huge criticism of Amorim is if the forwards stopped scoring under just his management. Or if the goalkeeper suddenly started chucking them in under his management.
But we know that's not true.
Reminder guys, Hojlund didn't score in 21 league appearances last season. 21!
Onana singlehandedly knocked us out of the ECL under ETH.
Am I right that Zirkzee had never scored a headed goal when we signed him? Sure I read that somewhere. If that's true it's incredible.
Am I wrong?
Liverpool lost three CB's, Firminho was off form and they racked up their worst home form for nearly 70 years. Was it six home defeats on the bounce?
Our player issues dwarf a few injured CB's.
I gotta admit I first thought he had all the players except for few players on the wings to fit his system when he first came in.
Even good passers like Mainoo/Casemiro I thought would be a good fit next to Ugarte with Bruno and Mount playing the 2 AM's.
But it just seems like new players are needed all over the place. We've been lacking creativity from the wings ever since he took over.
Onana needs replacing, a new creative but strong central midfielder is needed and a winger too. On top of that we need a striker who scores a lot of goals.
I know he's been popular to hate on, but I do like how Zirkzee is evolving. He is technical/creative and can probably play one of the AM roles.
So who is that creative central midfielder we lack? Who is that winger we need? Who is that striker we need?
Even good passers like Mainoo/Casemiro I thought would be a good fit next to Ugarte with Bruno and Mount playing the 2 AM's.
But it just seems like new players are needed all over the place. We've been lacking creativity from the wings ever since he took over.
Onana needs replacing, a new creative but strong central midfielder is needed and a winger too. On top of that we need a striker who scores a lot of goals.
I know he's been popular to hate on, but I do like how Zirkzee is evolving. He is technical/creative and can probably play one of the AM roles.
So who is that creative central midfielder we lack? Who is that winger we need? Who is that striker we need?
So these famed training sessions that have so far yielded a return of absolute feck all are more important than morale boost of winning a decent trophy and more importantly the financial boost from spamming our way into the CL? As far as I’m concerned Europa League should be the number one priority from now.
Again this is a narrative that is peddled by fan sentiment. Sir Alex finished second in his second season in 87/88 the highest in the clubs recent history of 8 years.
This warranted giving him credibility on top of what he achieved with Aberdeen domestically and the UEFA cup winners competition. So realistically he amassed two consecutive lower league finishes after challenging for the league.
What's worse is Amorim has already lost as many games in around three months compared to the time Sir Alex did in his first full season. There's no comparison, with Sir Alex we are contextually talking about two lower league finishes (+ one in isolation) in 27 seasons and you think it's a viable point to mention squad quality?
When Keane was on the overlap he highlighted that one of the most significant factors of Sir Alex success was not the transfer market, wasn't perceived squad quality but rather as a manager that he always took the gamble. Can we really compare that with a manager who substitutes a defender on to retain his one dimensional shape when the team was chasing a goal against Fulham to then be knocked out the FA cup?
Sir Alex was by modern standards and hindsight an immediate success at United. It was the drop off from 2nd that caused him to be questioned, not some upward hill long ardeous battle to become competitive.
Last edited:
Late to the party here but got sent that latest four four two video on YouTube on why his system isnt working.
Giving him benefit of doubt we just simply don't have the players with the right attributes required to play his way at the moment apart from Amad.
Let's hope we buy players in the summer with speed and explosiveness and have the courage to drive and take players on in final 3rd to create chances.
Giving him benefit of doubt we just simply don't have the players with the right attributes required to play his way at the moment apart from Amad.
Let's hope we buy players in the summer with speed and explosiveness and have the courage to drive and take players on in final 3rd to create chances.
That's all good and yeah we can't use Fergie to justify giving managers time. Agree.
You haven't answered the question though there.
What changed for us to go from struggling under Fergie to becoming dominant.
The man himself said it in his autobiography after finishing 11th.
I'm using Fergie because he's the greatest ever.
No, it isn't. If you add the evidence of last season and look at all of it together, that paints a picture of a player who lacks the quality to be an impact player in the PL in my opinion. He simply has too few strengths and too many weaknesses. In his second PL season, other teams have clearly adapted to him much more successfully than he has adapted to the PL. He doesn't make a significant contribution in ANY area of the game. He mostly didn't do that last season either, but then at least he had a scoring streak. I don't see anything in his skill set that tells me he's likely to overcome that.
And I'm not making the argument you're arguing against in your second paragraph.
Please share your findings
Ye so they won’t find anyone as good as him but they’ll still win games without him because they actually play as a team and as a unit. They create tons of chances and have more goalscorers in there team. You win more games playing as a team and in a system rather than being a 1 man team
I highly doubt he's going to get in the players he really wants given our financial situation. I'd be amazed if we sign someone on £100,000+ wages whilst cutting out free din dins for the staff. They would have to be very shrewd cheap signings, something United have struggled with for years.
They’d still be top 2 without him without a shadow of a doubt. Because everyone els as been awful this season and they keep winning. They actually play as a team which gets you more wins than not. Look at forest, there proving that you don’t need world class players to achieve something, alls you need is team work and hard working players who’ll put in a shift every week.
Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing. Watched part 1 & 2.
In the first part, he raises a valid point - our build-up play from the back is often too slow. However, is that solely due to our centre-backs being "average" on the ball, as he suggests? Or is it more a consequence of poor structural positioning elsewhere, as he also alluded to?
We've seen players like De Ligt, Martínez, and Mazraoui, who have formed our back three at times, thrive in a system under Ten Hag at Ajax, excelling at playing out from the back. Even Onana - when in goal for that Ajax side and Inter - demonstrated proficiency in distribution. These players have shown glimpses of that ability at United, too.
The real issue, in my opinion, is a lack of trust. There have been moments where Onana or our centre-backs have played progressive passes into midfield, only for the recipient to be dispossessed. If I’m honest, I’m not totally convinced when Ugarte or Casemiro receive the ball with their back to goal. But as he pointed out, this is all part of the plan - to invite pressure, draw the opposition in, and then exploit the spaces left behind. Unfortunately, we often fail to execute that next step, which forces us into playing out wide to our wing-backs. As he mentioned, this predictability makes us easier to defend against.
He mentioned signing two centre backs to fix this problem. Personally, I don’t believe signing two centre-backs is necessary, nor do I think we will. Next season, I expect us to go with:
Mazraoui/Yoro – De Ligt/Maguire – Martínez/Shaw (Heaven)
However, my preference would be to shift Yoro into the central role and bring in a right-sided centre-back to rotate with Mazraoui.
He also touched on the wing-backs, and I believe Amorim will push to sign Quenda next season, giving us a solid selection of Dorgu, Amad, Quenda, Leon, and Dalot.
From a positional standpoint, I haven’t been overly disappointed with our wing-backs. They’ve generally supported play well, but the issue lies in their lack of productivity when receiving the ball. That being said, whenever Amad has played as a wing-back, I’ve always felt we looked far more effective as a team because he has the ability to go past a player and deliver a good pass/cross.
It would also be interesting to compare how often our wing-backs receive the ball per 90 minutes compared to Sporting under Amorim. He pointed out that they are used far too frequently at United, whereas ideally, they should be a last resort rather than a primary outlet.
For me, the most important takeaway from the video was the point he made on attacking patterns. There’s a lot of frustration directed at Hojlund, Zirkzee, and others, which is understandable at times. However, when analysing the way we play, it’s easy to see why being a striker for United is such a difficult task.
Yes, Hojlund and Zirkzee haven’t been good enough, but a well-structured team should still create consistent goal-scoring opportunities regardless of individual quality. Our offensive struggles reflect our league position because we simply don’t generate enough threatening moments in attack.
A solid attacking structure would mean we wouldn’t have to rely so heavily on individual goalscorers. Instead, we would focus on team movement and positioning to create high-quality chances. An example is Arteta’s Arsenal - despite losing key attacking players, their structured play still gets them into dangerous areas, maintaining a consistent attacking presence.
As he mentioned, our attacking midfielders need to be closer to the striker to establish these patterns. He also highlighted the importance of midfield runners from the pivot.
I didn’t watch much of Sporting under Amorim, but I know he has commented on Mainoo’s defensive game when playing as an 8, suggesting he isn’t quite there yet in terms of covering ground and contributing both ways. This is likely why we’re being strongly linked with Ederson, who possesses the energy and work rate to move up and down the pitch effectively.
Some may argue that we lack the players to fully implement this style, but for me, the priority is seeing us create chances more fluidly and consistently. I want to see our attacking midfielders driving into half-spaces, Hojlund making relentless runs into the channels, and our midfielders receiving the ball in advanced, dangerous areas. Given the time Amorim has had, we should be seeing these patterns emerge far more frequently.
Come on, you know the answer. Unless you know nothing about United pre 1990. If you're debating be straight.
He went out and signed a bunch of new players. That's what he did to go from struggling to dominant. He didn't "adapt to what he had."
After finishing 11th the greatest manager of all time said he realised that squad didn't have it and needed a total refresh.
Now Amorim is obviously far from that level of management but we're expecting him to do something the greats couldn't. To just "adapt" to players with no goalscoring record and a disaster of a goalkeeper.
It was signing better players. Fergie broke the record when signing Pallister, but his two best signings would be the equivalent to £20-25 milion players nowadays, Cantona and Schmeichel.
If we had 2 wc players either end now, we wouldnt be in the bottom half of the table.
We routinely play with 5 defenders, at least one defensive midfielder, no players with ball carrying or one v one isolation ability, and then a blank space of two strikers as part of a front three.
You can tell me the players are shite and that’s the reason we’re 15th in the Premier League, but setting up this way week in week out and expecting anything other than what we serve up is pretty much negligence from the manager.
You can tell me the players are shite and that’s the reason we’re 15th in the Premier League, but setting up this way week in week out and expecting anything other than what we serve up is pretty much negligence from the manager.
Yeah it absolutely was.
Posters pretending to not know that to criticise Amorim is...interesting.
This isn't diminishing Fergie either. He was the greatest because he knew what mix of attributes, personalities, skills, and ages created a winning team. Along with his scouting network he went and put that in place.
It's what amazed me about Ole. All the midfielders he played with and he thought Fred and McTominay were good enough as a CM pairing.
That's a managers chief job. Not to literally go out scouting himself but to know what his team requires.
That's 90% of the job. Tactics and handling personalities are important but pointless if the playing talent isn't right in the first place.
Real Madrid lost their two starting CBs last season and managed to have their best GA numbers since 19/20 while winning the league with 95 points.
That's the issue with these arguments, it's cherry picking. It's always the same examples. Klopp's CBs, Klopp and Arteta finished 8th, Guardiola needed a season before he won the title, and now Rodri is injured. This is the sum total of everything that's happened in the history of football. That and Ferguson's early years (football took a decades-long pause after he won United the title).