What would your guess be?
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
You had posters on here claiming Everton have a better first 11 than us. The same Everton who were struggling to win a single game and were flirting with relegation, before they sacked their clearly underperforming manager for one who was not shitting the bed nonstop.
Almost everyone on here understands this team are not title material unless there’s a bizarre season and they play out of their skin, but to somehow justify the abhorrent run of performances and results takes special mental gymnastics, which we are seeing plenty of after each horrible game.
Where do you think our current (actually available) best XI ranks?
It doesn't take 'special mental gymnastics' to see it's bottom half level but I assume you think otherwise?
The problem Amorim has and ETH had is that our squad is very poorly suited to the pace and power of the premier league. Until our squad make up changes, I can’t see any improvement in performances
He cant make runs? Did you watch Thursday evening? Dalot just has to square the ball and he doesnt even spot it. Or do you mean he should receive the ball and dribble past 6 players to score from a solo run? He does all that for us in the past, and hes stopped.
Thats the point I am making - you cant knock his first season that much. I agree he looks terrible at the moment but most of our players do.
We can list a whole bunch of players who have fallen off the bus here. I can see why Mainoo wants out to be honest. Theres something deeply wrong with this club. Look at our constant injuries. Look at the mentality of the players. Look at what you see on the pitch. Coaching looks crap, sports psychology looks non existent, sports science looks no existent. INEOS look like all bluster at the moment - came in promising to employ the ‘best in class’ at these things, now focusing on cutting the canteen soup bill.
For my money, all I’ve seen from Amorim is a kind of return to Van Gaal subuteo soccer. We wont have the money to turn the playing squad round that much in the summer and you rarely see a manager recover this sort of nose dive. When we start next season afresh from 0 points, if these level of results continue we’ll quite quickly be sat in the bottom 3. I dont think he’ll be Manchester United Manager by November.
I imagine City would have done better without Rodri this season. But I don't know it with a strong degree of certainty because, as I already explained, there are real-life (not hypothetical) examples of teams getting better without some of their best players.
I don't know, a guess is pointless because the entire point is the ability of a manager to find solutions. I don't know Slot, so I'm not going to take a guess on his abilities.
I'm also not entirely understanding these references to Salah and Rodri. United's best player is Bruno Fernandes and he's started almost every league game.
.........
I don't understand why this discussion still even exists. Just look at him. Not only does he not score goals, as far as I can tell he doesn't really do anything at a high level for the PL. Loses almost every 50/50, can't beat a defender, usually can't make a pass, can't hold up the ball, easily neutralised by any defender who gets stuck in. And no, he doesn't get into many good positions either. You're clearly right about the Dalot situation, but that is one situation. It's not something that replicates much. And, it's not like this was totally different last season. It was a little bit better in terms of goals, but then too he really didn't contribute much else. Defenders have figured out how to neutralise him. And he doesn't have a reply.
Again, i’d agree that he looks awful on current form but thats looking at it with a recency bias. There were signs of these things in his first season. The question for me is why has he stopped doing it. I’m not saying hes the best striker in the world or that he is going to be. But he can do more than he is, like a lot of our players.
I’ve seen this argument a lot - blame it all on the players. If its not a managers job to get the best out of his players or get them performing, why do you need one? If it is solely letting 11 players go on a pitch and do their stuff, then you just need players. You cant take the position that the two are exclusive - its not 100% the players or 100% the manager - it can be both at the same time
I absolutely disagree we should be bottom half. What next? We are lucky to be avoiding relegation? It’s funny that the team which finished 8th last season (which many fans feel was with us underperforming and massive injury crisis), having added good players in the simmering (bar maybe Zirkzee who has been poor for us) - and that equals to us being naturally “bottom half” material.
The first eleven may not be the best but a top class striker and goalkeeper and every other player would all of a sudden look better and have increased confidence.
Our striker hasn’t scored for three months and our keeper is a constant liability. These thoughts creep I to our team and also opposition can smell the fear and doubt.
Our striker hasn’t scored for three months and our keeper is a constant liability. These thoughts creep I to our team and also opposition can smell the fear and doubt.
It's pointless guessing whether he would have won the PL with my Sunday league side too I suppose. He could have found solutions after all.
Sure, Liverpool without Salah is a sunday league side.
They probably would have been. They still create a ton of chances every game and they’ve got players all over the pitch that chip in with goals. So although Salah is probably irreplaceable for them. They’d still win enough games without him.
We at best marginally improved a side that had underlying stats of 15th. We removed goal threat on top. This is the result.
Make it any other side. Same argument.
Managers would get paid ten times more if they had the influence on results you seem to think compared to the players that clubs spend hundreds of millions on.
Plenty of analysis out there that wage bill is the biggest indicator of predicted performance.
The stats of 15th was only due to the players and had nothing to do with the coach? If so, why were fans wanting to get rid of Eth? The buying of players was anyway going to be taken away from him, so he might as well have been kept on. In fact, even if we get rid of Amorim, it should not matter based on the premise that the performance has nothing to do with the manager’s capabilities and tactics.
They probably would have been as good without him but he's irreplaceable? What?
So there is no difference between Benitez and Zidane or SAF and Atkinson or Gerrard and Emery or Klinsman and Heynckes?
As for your last point do you spot an issue with that fact in relation to United or Football in general? What if I tell you that this predictor is only correct if you have a competent enough head coach?
Would they feck. He’s scored or assisted close to 70% of their goals. You’re having a laugh if you think that swapping him out for any other player would see them having the same season.
Of course there is a hierarchy of managers, same with players.
With United it's obvious why really, ridiculously high wage bill for players that don't even make the pitch (Casemiro, Sancho, Rashford, Mount, Shaw, Antony etc).
Why is there a hierarchy of managers?
Because some are better than others? No idea where you're going with this but it's not going to prove that Amorim is heavily under performing with what he's got available.
Dont explain to some United fans, you will get migraines for no reason.
Pep has won EPL without a striker.
Arteta has challenged the league without a striker.
But only us, we need 11 world class players to do anything meaningful.
Barca lost Messi, almost went into administration, building a new stadium, employed club legend sacked him, won thr league before us and are challenging for league again, while us we are waiting for 'miracle worker' to come and make us a TOP 6 team
without losing a GOAT, having levelers, building a new stadium. It's extremely baffling, it's opposition fans who see some very basic things.
Great managers adapt to the team available. Managers main job is to beat the next team he faces. Everything else is just hot air.
But is that likely that a manager that has a 31% win rate is heavily underperforming, outside of relegation contenders?
He's either a terrible manager or vastly underperforming
So you think this is a top 4/title challenging team just lacking the right manager? Laughable.Dont explain to some United fans, you will get migraines for no reason.
Pep has won EPL without a striker.
Arteta has challenged the league without a striker.
But only us, we need 11 world class players to do anything meaningful.
Barca lost Messi, almost went into administration, building a new stadium, employed club legend sacked him, won thr league before us and are challenging for league again, while us we are waiting for 'miracle worker' to come and make us a TOP 6 team
It's extremely baffling, it's opposition fans who see some very basic things.
Great managers adapt to the team available. Managers main job is to beat the next team he faces. Everything else is just hot air.
I told people here,
How comes Benitez was unable to achieve anything with Madrid but Zidane took over and won CL immediately.
How come Benitez was unable to use the 'Squad' in madrid but Zidane was able.
Flick took Bayern in December, won a treble why did the previous manager get sacked?
Emery took Villa from Gerrard, immediately Villa improved. 100% some Villa fans during Gerrard were saying their squad is extremely poor and relegation squad.
People hide behind squad quality to insulate against poor managerial abilities.
Compare our best available XI to others and work it out. Underperforming maybe, 'heavily' definitely not.
If you don't have goalscorers you don't win games it's simple.
This is ridiculous as Amorim has said himself he didn't anticipate being this poor. He said that the results were embarrassing when assessing his responsibility in the interview with Ferdinand.
He's pretty much come out and said he's underperformed himself
Challenging no.
But fighting for top4 then it is.
We should be getting 60+ points with this team. Thats winning 20 games in a 38 game season. Win 12 home games, win 8 away games. Draw 5 games. We are fighting for top 4.
Amorim is doing such a bad job that we have 33 points from 27 games. Has he won 2 consecutive league games yet? Since November 2024. Has he?
Or even this squad can't win 2 consecutive league games??
Dont explain to some United fans, you will get migraines for no reason.
Pep has won EPL without a striker.
Arteta has challenged the league without a striker.
But only us, we need 11 world class players to do anything meaningful.
Barca lost Messi, almost went into administration, building a new stadium, employed club legend sacked him, won thr league before us and are challenging for league again, while us we are waiting for 'miracle worker' to come and make us a TOP 6 team
It's extremely baffling, it's opposition fans who see some very basic things.
Great managers adapt to the team available. Managers main job is to beat the next team he faces. Everything else is just hot air.
How come Pep has spent more than any other manager is history then?
If the real skill is adapting to the team available to them? Why didn't he just adapt to Joe Hart?
DelusionalChallenging no.
But fighting for top4 then it is.
We should be getting 60+ points with this team. Thats winning 20 games in a 38 game season. Win 12 home games, win 8 away games. Draw 5 games. We are fighting for top 4.
Amorim is doing such a bad job that we have 33 points from 27 games. Has he won 2 consecutive league games yet? Since November 2024. Has he?
Or even this squad can't win 2 consecutive league games??
Exactly it's a redundant argument, managerial competence is a thing. One individual fans underestimate to this day is Sir Alex Ferguson. There is a silly consensus that time was the reason for his success when the reality was he was the best manager in the league for over a decade.
United haven't had a world class manager perhaps with the exception of Jose who has achieved the most competitively in ten years out of all the coaches, it can't be a coincidence. As I have stated before Anorim, Eth, Solskjaer, Ragnick, LVG and Moyes is not a selection of managers where you begin to diminish the influence of the players exclusively while absolving the managers of their responsibilities.
Yep even he must have vastly overrated these players like many of you do.
What your doing is absolving a manager with as low as a 30% win percentage of any professional responsibility. The real world doesn't work like that and thankfully individuals will be held accountable due to poor performance.