Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

This game hasn't changed anything that we don't 'know' already based on what we've seen. Not sure why people are arguing otherwise.

He's on a thin line for me. He has to have an amazing summer with training and transfers for it to 'turn around' to something more respectable. It's happened before with other managers and it's not out of the realm but it's hard to be really positive at the moment.
 
So wait, you feel we deserved more from our piss poor performances under Amorim. Today wasn't a good performance, it was a barely acceptable performance against a really shit team. This is some of the worst football I've ever seen from us and that includes the shit we saw under Van Gaal and Rangnick.
I’m talking about this game. He’s coached a steady if unspectacular 1 or 2 - 0 win. That dodgy pen gave them life and any team can end up on the back foot when a team with that home support suddenly has momentum. Not his fault the ref gave them a way back in it. They created zero until that point.
 
He said the tiredness came after we conceded :lol:
How about saying our heads just dropped completely because we have no confidence in each other
 
I don't think individual player quality has anything to do with the performances because the team don't look dangerous in any capacity shape or form. It's down to instructions, the attack was poor under Erik due to wasting chances
I don't see how can anyone watch football and think this. If you picked a group of quality players and put some of us in charge they still wouldn't be this crap. The attack under Ten Hag wasn't poor due to wasting chances either. For majority of his time here we were overperforming our xg.
 
Every game before it kicks off you hope to see some improvement and patterns of play to get bit excited about to watch but not seeing anything. It's boring. We are a terrible side to watch
 
I say stay the course with Ruben. There's really no choice anyway and in fact I would say we're at some risk of Ruben walking on us even with the knowledge that that would mean his contract is torn up and he gets no severance payments from the club.

My only quibble with Amorim is that he persists with tactics with players who just can't or wait deal with the tactics. We need a rebuild no matter what so why not sacrifice his principles now and do whatever it would have taken to secure at least a EL spot if not an actual CL spot by winning the EL this season AND THEN teach whoever is in the squad this summer how to play football.
How much improvement do you expect the guy to make in it 90 days, playing 2 games a week pretty much every week? Losing key players to injury, including our best player this season. However despite all that, we're so much harder to breakdown, allot more solid at the back compared to the the previous manager when we were conceding 20-30 shots a game. Bruno is playing allot better now than just before Amorim arrived, Magwire is playing better, and Zirzkee is also improving. People are forgetting that this coach was hired for a long term project, to put right shit that's been going for 12 years, and people are complaining and moaning because he's lost a few games and are losing faith already and want him to fix everything overnight.
 
Aside from poor decision making/finishing in the final third, pretty much a perfect away performance in Europe. Before the pen, that is. I'm happy with the system. We just need to find the players who can really make it thrive.
It's hardly perfect is it? I mean Sociedad were crap and we weren't much better. We're a dreadful team to watch.
 
So we were destined to get battered against this team according to most. We outplayed them, but the manager has fecked up again, apparently? It’s hard to take seriously.
 
Winning EL would be great: it could be the difference between having a great striker next season or not.

One thing about Amorim: he doesn‘t make excuses. This season can‘t be saved, he is correct.
It would be. But the bit about the striker is nothing but an assumption. United recruited without being in the CL before. And transfers aren't going to be held whether we bring in the 25-30 million we can expect from the CL. Obviously it sounds like a great piece but it really isn't.

Another game without a win against piss poor opposition. I'll hang my hat on it - he's a fraud. I couldn't have imagined us being worse than Ten Hag and yet we are. How can such a highly rated manager be this tactically inflexible. I can't wait for him to feck off if I'm honest.
Fecking hell. After 3 month... Surely no other explanations of why we play the way than he is a fraud.

His system relies so much on the full backs especially in attack and that leaves Dalot as one of our key attackers we’ll win absolutely feck all under those circumstances he’s nowhere near good enough

Time and time again match after match we create feck all because we’re relying on Dalot to put in an attacking masterclass

Pointless
Imagine trying to post something about tactics in here and then looking as if you don't know the difference between full back and wing back.
 
ETH worked a miracle by winning the cup and the toxic element in the dressing room got him sacked.

Kind of fed up of hearing about toxicity. It's guesswork from fans.

These players try. They give it what they've got.

They're just not good enough, too old or too young.
 
So we were destined to get battered against this team according to most. We outplayed them, but the manager has fecked up again, apparently? It’s hard to take seriously.

Even if we’d won 1-0 the same people would have been complaining about him because we barely beat a weak Sociedad side etc etc
 
This game hasn't changed anything that we don't 'know' already based on what we've seen. Not sure why people are arguing otherwise.

He's on a thin line for me. He has to have an amazing summer with training and transfers for it to 'turn around' to something more respectable. It's happened before with other managers and it's not out of the realm but it's hard to be really positive at the moment.

The issue I see is, to get anywhere close to what we need, we would need to sign a lot of players and our FFP position just makes it unfeasible.

Amorim doesn't have the delivery in the wingback areas, he doesn't have the ball progression he wants from centre-back (or the recovery pace), he doesn't have the dynamism and drive in midfield he needs, he does not have another #10 like Bruno that has both the workrate and ability to be valuable to his out and in possession styles, he does not have a #9 that can hold the ball up, beat defenders one v one and score goals out of nothing.

Even if we somehow managed to sign all these players in a single summer, and every single buy worked out, he would have to be super lucky with injuries not to end up right back here: Using guys who are square pegs in round holes and hoping it all works out.

I just can't see it.
 
So wait, you feel we deserved more from our piss poor performances under Amorim. Today wasn't a good performance, it was a barely acceptable performance against a really shit team. This is some of the worst football I've ever seen from us and that includes the shit we saw under Van Gaal and Rangnick.

But this must be pretty much the worst collection of players you've seen at United right?
 
The issue I see is, to get anywhere close to what we need, we would need to sign a lot of players and our FFP position just makes it unfeasible.

Amorim doesn't have the delivery in the wingback areas, he doesn't have the ball progression he wants from centre-back (or the recovery pace), he doesn't have the dynamism and drive in midfield he needs, he does not have another #10 like Bruno that has both the workrate and ability to be valuable to his out and in possession styles, he does not have a #9 that can hold the ball up, beat defenders one v one and score goals out of nothing.

Even if we somehow managed to sign all these players in a single summer, and every single buy worked out, he would have to be super lucky with injuries not to end up right back here: Using guys who are square pegs in round holes and hoping it all works out.

I just can't see it.

Yeah he's got no chance here.
 
How much improvement do you expect the guy to make in it 90 days, playing 2 games a week pretty much every week? Losing key players to injury, including our best player this season. However despite all that, we're so much harder to breakdown, allot more solid at the back compared to the the previous manager when we were conceding 20-30 shots a game. Bruno is playing allot better now than just before Amorim arrived, Magwire is playing better, and Zirzkee is also improving. People are forgetting that this coach was hired for a long term project, to put right shit that's been going for 12 years, and people are complaining and moaning because he's lost a few games and are losing faith already and want him to fix everything overnight.

Fair points, but we are arguably performing more poorly now than under ETH. I say stand behind Ruben, but how many of these players are actually going to be in the squad when Ruben is still here in two seasons? Maybe 5 or 6 at most.
 
Terrible subs but sadly we didn’t really have anyone to bring on. Taking Garnacho off neutered the attack completely as usual.
 
Even if we’d won 1-0 the same people would have been complaining about him because we barely beat a weak Sociedad side etc etc
At the moment there is plenty to criticise whether we win, lose, or draw.

As I've said multiple times, I'm happy for Amorim to go into next season. I don't want to see him sacked yet. But I refuse to become one of those annoying arse lickers who blindly defend managers despite the performances being awful.

There is no defending what we're seeing if we're being honest. Amorim has improved literally nothing so far. If nothing has improved by Christmas I'll be calling for his sacking that's for sure.
 
It definitely is, by a long way. We’ve gone past having quality players with questionable commitment now.

Agree.

I really don't get posters/fans being shocked after every game by how average we are.

If you haven't got players who can score goals football is really, really hard.
 
Madrid always finds a way to win in the UCL no matter how poor they're playing we're the complete opposite. No matter how much in control we are we always found a way to shit the bed, make some stupid mistake either Onana gifting a goal, Bruno gifting a penalty, Dalot missing a simple pass for an open goal chance, we find ways to not win.

The players' IQ is low, I dont know if its low morale, if they dont believe in themselves or if they're just plain stupid. But we always find a way to ruin it. Thats not on Amorim, it's on the players. Must be infuriating to manage players like these, that sabotage themselves on every single game with stupid mistakes.
 
I’m talking about this game. He’s coached a steady if unspectacular 1 or 2 - 0 win. That dodgy pen gave them life and any team can end up on the back foot when a team with that home support suddenly has momentum. Not his fault the ref gave them a way back in it. They created zero until that point.

The game was there for the taking. But we were sideways and backwards and tried to slow it down too much too early, if we had been braver after we scored we could of killed it.

The backwards and sideways control over attacking comes from Amorin. One goal is never enough and there is always a chance that a biy of bad luck or a ref decision is going to go against you.

All in all it wasn't particularly bad performance, but sociedad were easily one of the worst teams we have faced recently.
 
It's hardly perfect is it? I mean Sociedad were crap and we weren't much better. We're a dreadful team to watch.
Call it what you want. A professional performance away from home in Europe. Prior to the penalty. We gave them nothing and created some good moments ourselves. The decision making in the final third wasn't great, but as far as a system/structure goes, quite happy with that. As previously said, "we just need to find the players to really make it thrive".
 
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How much improvement do you expect the guy to make in it 90 days, playing 2 games a week pretty much every week? Losing key players to injury, including our best player this season. However despite all that, we're so much harder to breakdown, allot more solid at the back compared to the the previous manager when we were conceding 20-30 shots a game. Bruno is playing allot better now than just before Amorim arrived, Magwire is playing better, and Zirzkee is also improving. People are forgetting that this coach was hired for a long term project, to put right shit that's been going for 12 years, and people are complaining and moaning because he's lost a few games and are losing faith already and want him to fix everything overnight.
I think this is bang on for me.

There has been notable player improvement from Zirkzee and Amad, Bruno looks dangerous and Garnacho does do damage when they can get him on the ball. Ugarte looks sharp when fit and Maguire has been solid enough.

The squad deficiencies can't be put down to Ruben, he's signed one who does look good in Dorgu. He can't be faulted for injuries as such and the team would be infinitely better with players like Shaw, Amad, Mount etc in and around that lineup.

In an ideal world, a lot of this squad one way or another are gone in the summer with dross like Lindelof thankfully out of contract, as well as permanent sale of Sancho.

United have to be savvy with the incoming and I think would be mad not to try and get David and Gomes on frees from Lille. They're better than what's there and wouldn't cost, if northing else it's depth.
 
I don't see how can anyone watch football and think this. If you picked a group of quality players and put some of us in charge they still wouldn't be this crap. The attack under Ten Hag wasn't poor due to wasting chances either. For majority of his time here we were overperforming our xg.

There are too many holes in the build up for me to think that individual player quality rectifies the issues that are presented from spaces in between positions.

When the team is playing out from the back the impetus to go long is not because the players can't pass forward but because there's no pass forward available. In front of the back line is a double pivot midfield who have no variation to be dynamic. You can literally throw a prime Modric / Kroos in there and it will be the exact same results. The team is choking every time, Amorim played a very high line at Sporting which papered over this but just look at Spurs if that's supposed to be the solution with more athletic defenders, the opposition will always find ways around this.

Furthermore, the tens clearly from the managers instructions don't drop deep enough to pick up the ball in-between the lines. When I observe Alonso using the same shape the wingbacks are so condensed that they resemble a three / four man midfield in possession. There are times when they bomb forward to overload the wide areas but it's not set in stone, they have clearly been coached to play more on the inside similar to how Pep used Lewis in his breakout season.

When I'm watching this United team I'm looking for different ideas that build sustainability for the teams performances in the long run and there's nothing. I am absolutely certain that even if United spend 250+ million this summer and acquire three maybe four players the shift in the performances will be so minimal that it's barely discernable. Dorgu is already evidence of this. He's started fairly well but he's done nothing that says wow the club can hang their hats on Amorim's system.

This is a hyped up manager who's having to prove himself in difficult circumstances. But ultimately he's under achieving.
 
I’ve seen enough from our games to understand that we won’t be challenging with him, too naive and one-dimensional to go all the way in the EPL. He’s not a bad coach evidently and has identified / talked the right things but his rigidity will prevent us from winning anything. Having system and vision you believe in is a great attribute but you have to be flexible in some situations and he completely ignores the reality on the ground.
 
We do not have a system to deliver the ball to strikers.

Forget system. It isn't that. We've all seen the exact same problems under a different system. We also can watch players and whatever the formation see if they're good enough or not.
 
We do not have a system to deliver the ball to strikers.

I think the key word is consistently. On average we are talking about singular instances in games when the team actually makes inroads to score. Today it was a pass from Dalot, last game it was a pass from Zirkzee to Garnacho.

This system doesn't cause the attack to perform consistently throughout periods within a game. It's a more beneficial narrative for Amorim if the team is wasteful as opposed to being not being creative.
 
I'm done with it at this point seen enough.

It's not just Hojlund but irrespective of losing, chasing a game etc his substitutes are the same. One defender off and another on with whatever other outfield change to ensure the team remain in the same shape. Amorim is undoubtedly the most one dimensional manager I've seen at United. He's got no variation about him.

I'm not suggesting he veer away from three at the back but it's his iteration of how that system is deployed which is the issue. Alonso playing at base the exact same system but in possession the methodology of play is fundamentally different. Clearly a better manager with a more concise idea of how to actually effect games.
He's got better players, you can only do so much with what you have.
 
I just want to know that Ineos are still convinced by him, and that Amorim's heart is in it, if they are and it is then I'll get behind him and endure another rebuild.

But I'll feel cheated if Amorim suddenly decides to call it a day as he's bitten off more than he can chew, or Ineos have realised that they've misjudged what they thought they were getting again.

If either of those things are going to happen then they just need it done.
 
I’ve seen enough from our games to understand that we won’t be challenging with him, too naive and one-dimensional to go all the way in the EPL. He’s not a bad coach evidently and has identified / talked the right things but his rigidity will prevent us from winning anything. Having system and vision you believe in is a great attribute but you have to be flexible in some situations and he completely ignores the reality on the ground.

Let’s face it, if he was playing 4231 nobody would be expecting him to be flexible. Nobody would be saying he’s one dimensional. Supporters have it in their heads that this formation can’t work and expect him to change it.

He has absolutely feck all players available and we’ve got people moaning about him not being able to change it up. How is he going to do that? Our only two viable options were a youngster just back from injury a day ago, and an older player who has no physical attributes whatsoever. What is he supposed to do?

He’s shown flexibility when he’s had the chance. He’s tried every possible combination of players across the pitch. He’s allowed Garnacho freedom to play wider than he normally has his 10s, he goes 442 in different parts of the game. I think people need to accept that there’s just very little options available to him and, for obvious reasons, he doesn’t want to throw youngsters into this right now.
 
But I'll feel cheated if Amorim suddenly decides to call it a day as he's bitten off more than he can chew

Has a manager ever done that? like, do we have a considerable pool from which to draw examples of managers doing that?

just asking because I often see - on this forum - people mentioning the possibility of a manager "walking away" (usually when circumstances aren't ideal), but I don't recall ever seeing it actually happen
 
Aside from poor decision making/finishing in the final third, pretty much a perfect away performance in Europe. Before the pen, that is. I'm happy with the system. We just need to find the players who can really make it thrive.

Funny enough, I think we've adapted now to the system. i think the current problem we have now is personnel, not because they are necessarily bad, but some people simply don't fit. .

I think the ideal team is a strong, direct and attacking team, with a solid defensive shape.
At present, we've had four core issues that have stopped us from realizing that identity.

1. our midfielders are not great receiving the pass from the defence, so as a result we play really slowly out of the backline.
2. Our Central Midfielders are not athletic enough to operate in a 2 man midfield
3. Our pressing from the front hasn't been good enough
4. Our attackers don't have the athleticism or ball carrying ability to take advantage of the space provided by the system....which is supposed to be our main attacking outlet.

In terms of passing out from the back, what has become clear is that none of Casemiro, Mainoo or Ugarte can do this. In addition to this, Eriksen doesn't have the athleticism to carry this out. However, what we have discovered is that Bruno operates best as a central midfielder in this system and can support us as a passing option for defenders bringing the ball out of defence. In addition to this, the combination of him and Ugarte have the requisite level of athleticism to compete in the Premier League. I think we should sign a CM/DM that can play both as a 6 and an 8, but at the moment, I think that midfield partnership works. The key problem is that outside of those 2 and a young Collyer, we don't have anyone else that can play in the midfield 2 in this system.

In regard to our pressing, Zirkzee and Garnacho aren't the best at pressing and I think the system requires it a lot more than we have actually seen. This weakens our system. Its one of the reasons Amad stood out so much when he was fit. I also think Mainoo and Mount would have been really successful in the 2 no.10 roles to support this. I also think Hojlund isn't always as consistent as he should be in this regard, and as a result, we don't benefit from direct attacks in the opposition half as much as we should.

In regard to athleticism in attack and our ability to carry the ball in the from 5 (wingbacks, AM's and striker), I think this is where we are the poorest at the moment. The spaces are there, but when you have Dalot and Mazraoui who can't really complete takeons, Eriksen and Zirkzee who don't have the pace or bally carrying ability, Bruno needing to play deeper and Garnacho not having the positioning or strength to carry the ball centrally, it leads us to looking tepid in attack. From watching Amorim's system, this is supposed to be our main source of attacks, direct drives from those 5 players, causing havoc in the box and leading to a lot of cutbacks. Mainoo, Mount and Amad who could do this are all injured. So as a result, we end up clipping balls or stalling our attack.


Obviously a return from injury to some of these players would solve this issue.
However, I would sell Garnacho, Onana, Antony, Rashford and Zirkzee this summer. I would controversially keep Hojlund and Mount, as I feel, even as depth, they both work in this system.

In terms of profiles, we should be looking for athleticism as our key attribute for any player coming into this squad, as I think its key to succeed in this system.

In terms of positions, I think we should sing a new keeper ( Onana's presence has led to the defensive instability imo), an athletic attacking right wing back, an athletic CM/DM that can play as a 6 or an 8 and a new no.9 with a good first touch and can attack on his own.

I think in Mainoo, Mount, Amad, Shaw and Collyer, we have absent players who would already turn the performances around. But moving forward, even in depth, having strong athletic players is the key in making Amorim's system tick.
 
He's got better players, you can only do so much with what you have.

Agree with the general statement but contextually disagree, intrinsic value always frames perspective.

Leverkusen were second from bottom when Xabi took over and finished sixth. They were never looked at as having the potential to win the league, Alonso comes in and changes that dynamic. He had a managerial bounce on steroids but followed up that success being unbeaten in the following season.

Amorim practically admitted to Rio he's essentially got nothing left to offer and his lack of influence in performances and improving players individually has killed all the momentum every manager needs to instill belief in the players and themselves.