He should be able to extract more starts from him.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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i like him. it’s scorched earth with a lot of the squad, but it will identify the ones who want to turn it around.
Definitely, the one thing I have enjoyed since he's come in has been his brutal honesty.
If you landed a new job and then those who appointed you starting cutting costs and support staff, would you not feel hard done by when people started criticizing your results?
He was in three competitions and it is blatantly obvious that we did not have the wherewithal to compete on three fronts. Against Spurs in particular he was forced to pick a token bench of Academy players who were basically on the equivalent of a school trip. For a club of United's size, that's scandalous.
It is not that Amorim is above criticism; he has made some mistakes, admittedly, but he's been dealt a very tough hand and the squad is threadbare.
I'd imagine he did ask for a striker during the transfer window, like Kolo Muani, who would have improved us, but we brought in nobody because we haven't got the money.
He was in three competitions and it is blatantly obvious that we did not have the wherewithal to compete on three fronts. Against Spurs in particular he was forced to pick a token bench of Academy players who were basically on the equivalent of a school trip. For a club of United's size, that's scandalous.
It is not that Amorim is above criticism; he has made some mistakes, admittedly, but he's been dealt a very tough hand and the squad is threadbare.
I'd imagine he did ask for a striker during the transfer window, like Kolo Muani, who would have improved us, but we brought in nobody because we haven't got the money.
As much as we all want Amorim to succeed, it's pretty clear he doesn't have the tactical flexibility to make it work. He has been nothing short of a disaster since he arrived and hasn't changed things to put an end and get us through with the players we have. Clubs hire and fire managers all the time and we should be no different but we seem to hang on too long every single time. To suggest there is no manager who can fix this is a stretch. All these players bar a few of the young lads have all competed at the highest level and achieved trophies and top 4 finishes, so to suggest there isn't a manager that can get something out of them is bizarre as there has been in the past.
We still lose game but we are not beaten badly like Ten Hag. Overall, defensively we are better but attacking wise, we are not scoring. The main issue is low quality striker, I think changing Hoijund next season will improve our standing alone. Hoijund needs to go to whoever is the highest bidder. Another culprit is Garnacho, he has miss so many big chances. If he score some of the chances, we would have gotten 6-8 points. Amad is out but will be back next season, so he is going to improve further. Missing Europe games will help Amorim to spend more time on the training pitch and will yield better performance. 4 signing needs, 1 quality ST, 1 AM, 1 CRM and 1 RB. I don't see Dalot as United XI. What does Dalot bring to the table? If we get these signings right, we should finish top 6. Let's hope Amorim can instil a system that works in the EPL.
What players though? If you look at players age ranges in our squad. You've got 5 youth (20 or younger), 5 older players (31 or above) and 15 senior players. 6 of whom are injured, 7 if you count Ugarte's knock.
I looked at 3 other squads for a quick comparison, using the same age brackets.
Arsenal - 2 youth, 19 senior, 3 older
Villa - 0 youth, 19 senior, 5 older
Bournemouth - 4 youth, 20 senior, 1 older
Manchester Utd - 5 youth, 15 senior, 5 older
We just don't have the squad density. Wouldn't surprise me if we have one of the lowest senior squads right now in the PL.
The players got the most shit from what I remember, anyone but the manager. We had people blaming the roof at OT before they questioned Ten Hag.
Whether you agree with the statement or not, what's there to be gained from saying that publicly?
As a thought experiment then, would you mind putting a manager + team selection together you think would succeed? No need to put too much effort into it, but Im genuinely interested to see a proposal for how you could turn Sunday's team into something successful - lets say top 4.
Absolute fecking madness to think that this squad is good enough to be anywhere near the top half of the top 10. Take Bruno out and we'd be fighting relegation, and we were well on the path to this before the current manager came in, that's why Ten Hag got sacked in the first place. So a team that were lucky to finish 8th last season has lost Sancho, Rashford, Varane, Antony, Greenwood, McTomminay, Wan-Bissaka, Malacia, Martial, Elanga, Amrabat and you're saying they should be better?
I think what a lot of people miss is the bigger picture, the bigger context of what has and is happening to our club. You cannot just look at one present day match that we lose at home and get so blinkered by anger and disappointment that you fail to consider the disastrous mismanagement that began when SAF annoyed the Irish stakeholders enough to the point where they sold their shares and the Glazers seized their chance to capture our club. They leveraged huge debt which continues to cripple us, especially in light of PSR, and the complete lack of succession planning post SAF meant he got to pick his successor, madness when you think about it.
Because the Glazers don't care about nowt bar money, this great club has been scandalously allowed to drift in all key departments and became bloated with too many staff, too many handouts and agents and greedy mercenaries all taking a bite out of a shrinking cake. Poor planning and recruitment allowed a series of managers to buy without long term thinking or vision, and our culture changed to one of player power in their comfort zones leaving manager after manager hamstrung and bereft.
Ruben is the first since SAF to come in and provide a cultural reset, remember SAF had a few low league finishes before he got it right, Ruben needs a similar amount of time. The changes off field although brutal, are within a capitalist paradigm necessary as is the modernisation of our data approach, scouting and recruitment. All these changes mean short to medium term pain for the long term gain, we are just starting, hence we need to back Ruben especially at this initial period, slowly he will get better players in, slowly the culture of winning and professionalism will return.
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the more i think about it, the more certain I become. Whether he is tactical inflexible or not is irrelevant, I am very certain that before the appointment he outlined what he would do and what it could lead to this season. I am also fairly certain that the United leadership tasked him to do exactly this, cull and rebuild, knowing they brought him in early to start the process early and get ready for next season (seeing how long we take to ship people out, get new ones in). It's painful though....
He can't really be using the cuts to staff and other overhead costs as an excuse, can he? You'd be reaching to suggest that it impacts the results on the field. If he was denied any incoming players in January, he could complain, but really he needs a summer transfer window to make some moves with the squad. That is, if he is not fired before that.
I meant in the sense of cuts to playing staff. Players like Anthony and Rashford have gone on loan without being replaced.
I would imagine he's had some say in that. He has openly called out Rashford for his lack of effort, and Antony desperately needed a confidence boost elsewhere. I don't think those two departures have harmed his chances of results that much. Hopefully it works in his favor, in that their market values increase and it results in more flexibility in the summer transfer window.
Not that I agree but to play devils advocate, it removes a lot of pressure. It's been said by him multiple times consistency is an issue and mentality, there is so much pressure and weight on this game that all of his comments about how unimportant this is and how nothing can save our season just points to me that he's trying to let the players know the pressure is off and is hoping that will spur something.
I'm of the opposite school of thought, I think players need to be used to pressure and forced to perform above it but when they have been previously, ETH first few games, Ralf Ragnick - They just fold and it must be so difficult as when we only get a few players in each year they tend to get infected with the mentality, you only have to look at how well Mazraoui started and now how average he looks...
no one can pretend it’s going to plan. none of this “trust the process, believe in the plan” bollocks that ten hag was always spunking. the players with the right attitudes will rise to it, the players with the wrong ones need to feck off regardless of who the manager is.
You make it sound like the squad that finished 8th was then massively weakened.
Elanga and Greenwood left United in 2023. Malacia did not play a single minute of football last season. Sancho played as a substitute in three matches before falling out with the manager and moving to Germany. Martial had 5 starts in the PL, 444 minutes, 1 goal.
United lost Varane, Wan Bissaka, McTominay, and Amrabat (who was only a loan) but signed De Ligt, Yoro, Ugarte, and Mazraoui. Hard to argue this represents a serious downgrade, if any.
So what's left is Rashford and Antony, who the manager got rid of.
I like his realism. Our players have been given a free ride for too long. He’s making clear what the standards are and it seems like those above him agree with his assessment of them.
This squad is an absolute mess and the majority will be up for sale for anything reasonable in the summer. Why shouldn’t he rip into them? What’s to lose?
That's fair, I don't want any of the toxic false positivity either. I just question the logic behind publicly signaling "none of this matters" ahead of what should be a pretty important game in the only competition that's still in play for us.
We say this every season, but realistically 90% of them will still be here at this time next season.
I am still putting my hopes behind Amorim but I do hope he has more tactical flexibility than has been shown so far. What happens when/if these tactics come together for us and we start playing well? Teams will take a season or two before they know how to play against it, and then flexibility will be needed to mix things up to counter that. I'm hoping the reason we haven't seen much variation in tactics yet is because the foundational tactics he wants to use are nowhere near working yet.
100% agreed
You are arguing in bad faith: most players you mentioned were either injured or not in the squad.
Our squad was unfit and depleted last season, yet 8th was catastrophic. I‘m pretty sure you were one of the loud posters with that opinion.
We definitely have a better squad available this season.
I‘m sorry I‘m not going along with the rewriting of history, folks.
I agree I think we will struggle to shift a lot of them but I think we’re in a very different position this summer and will be doing all we can to get a lot off the books. Regardless, the ones we can’t move on need to know there are expectations. Too many have been allowed to coast for too long.
Basically Rangnick but with a lot more clout.
Although if Rangnick had to come in and deal with this squad, compared to the one he found, he'd quit after 3 days.
You tell me? Sevilla wins the Europa League seemingly every other year. Where has that got them exactly? Where exactly are they on the footballing totem pole? Are we striving to be Sevilla's level?
Or Madrid..heck even Atletico these days.
And we're all sorry that you have no credibility here.
What are you talking about? 'Winning the Europa = being Sevilla' is stupid and disingenuous.
Being less skint > being more skint. Obviously.
Yes but how long is ‘too long’ in this instance? Have we seen enough already to bin him? I’m not sure either way - the good games (City/Liverpool/Arsenal) were very good. The bad have been very bad, and more numerous. I don’t know what to think to be honest
If he gets sacked he gets sacked, the results are awful, but whatever happens we needed someone to come in and change our style of play and it was always going to be difficult with a squad so ill suited to playing front foot football.
Is this not a better squad now? I mean it’s a younger squad. We’re obviously lacking a goalscorer but I think the main issue with this squad is adapting to the 3 at the back formation. We never played this under previous managers. Yoro and de ligt are 2 solid cbs. Ugarte and Mainoo are 2 decent midfielders with Bruno as a 10. Garnacho and Amad are decent wide players.
What's stupid and disingenuous is thinking winning the Europa League will save the club.
We're not skint for lack of trophy money. That you're dissociated from the Glazers and what the Ineos sht show is incredible and sad. But also expected. You're just a fan. Not any sort of expert on the business of Manchester United. Not that it's needed. But if you had the broader sense of needs you'd come off the Europa League much like better heads have suggested without resorting to calling ideas stupid.
It doesn't have to "save the club", it's simply a lot better than not winning it.
Gives us prize money this year, CL money next year, bumps up the Adidas deal and makes us more appealing to potential signings. Glazers and Ineos can still be bad, it doesn't change which of those things is better for us.
Has anyone ever suggested that?
Can I ask on your tactical flexibility comment?
You do realise that the 3-4-3 morphs into a 4 ATB at multiple times during the game and have started creating a diamond in midfield in possession for building up through the 3rds.
The attacks breakdown when Hojlund tries controlling the ball and passes it to the opposition, look at the difference and dominance when a 17 year old Obi Martin was upfront.
The attack relies on the WBs beating their man to create cutbacks into the box exactly the same as city do, Dorgu vs Everton linking up with Bruno using 1 2s looks like the template going forward.
Dalot & Mazraoui both occupy those spots as we have no other options, Amass hasn't been used by multiple managers maybe he isn't ready, I believe he has gone tonight though, Amad went to the R10 when Antony & Rashford were loaned out, clearly to cut costs on the wage bill and drum some interest to sell them in the summer.
Short term pain for long term gain.
The last game against Fulham both the LCB & RCB were aggressive in their press, De Ligt made multiple tackles to put us back on the attack, another tactical shift to recent weeks where we have sat off.
Yoro vs Ipswich was underlapping Dalot at times showing the wide CBS are given licence to attack if technically proficient.
Yes there are multiple areas Amorim can be questioned:
- Slow build up play
- No subs at Tottenham bar Obi at the end
- Our inability to maintain possession
Do we sack that manager as he has taken us as far as he has, do I know if Amorim is going to improve us no....
Just cause ETH failed doesn't mean Amorim will, also doesn't mean Amorim will succeed.
This constant changing of managers is great if you have a team like Real 2010s or Chelsea during the 2000s as the quality was there regardless of who was in charge, difference is our squad is overall sh1te,.
How many of this squad get into even some of the teams Mourinho or Ole had?
It’s not about been top 4. It’s about getting something better out of these players. I refuse to accept that a different manger with a broader approach wouldn’t be able to do so. I look at that Fulham side on Sunday and they were not that good. The team we had out there could have and should have won that game or at least had more control, especially as we were at home. We were second best until the last periods of the game and that just isn’t good enough after he’s had so many games.
I don’t have an answer as to who could do better, but I’m absolutely positive that Amorim should be doing better with these players and he isn’t in my eyes. Not even close.
I myself have criticized Amorims team selection but its shocking that some people are already calling for him to be sacked. While the manager plays a crucial role, the current challenges facing the club extend far beyond the manager. The core problem at United lies with the composition of the squad itself. For too long the club has struggled with recruitment signing players who lack the quality and mentality to succeed at Old Trafford. This has resulted in a disjointed team that lacks identity and the ability to compete in the league and in Europe. The reality is that United current squad contains a significant number of average players. Restoring United to its former glory goes beyond simply changing the manager or tweaking tactics it requires a complete overhaul of the current squad. A sustainable long term strategy should focus on building a squad around young and promising players who can grow and develop at the club. Only then can United hope to reclaim its former glory and once again compete for the biggest trophies in football.
Is the club forcing him to do the interviews for the money coming in from them? They keep coming up with nothing to show for on the pitch so far, a bit embarrassing, really, I'm willing to bet Amorim is against them as well, we are such a commercial club nowadays it's actually sad. In the begging I understood it, right now - just why?