the worst part about having this charlotteanne is that sir barry ferguson has agreed to manage rangers, instead of returning to manage us and trying to repeat his successes of the 90s and 2000s.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Try 17th since Amorim joined.
I‘ll be delighted if he turns it around, but I‘m losing confidence fast.
Arsenal?
They have achieved less than Ole did with United so no.
Arsenal's average league position in the three seasons before Arteta joined was 5.3 and their average point tally was 69.3. Arteta joined mid-season and they finished 8th twice and averaged 58.5 points in those two seasons. So that is a drop of 3 league positions and 11 points.
By comparison, Manchester United's average league position over the last three seasons is 5.7 and their average point tally is 64.3. They are currently 15th which is a 9 point drop (three times as many as Arsenal) and if their league performance held they would finish on 44 points which is a 20-point drop (almost twice as much as Arsenal).
It's a substantial difference.
It also wasn't a great master plan, their initial plan kinda flopped. They signed Willian for big wages and told him the plan was to win the Champions League in three seasons.
By comparison, Manchester United's average league position over the last three seasons is 5.7 and their average point tally is 64.3. They are currently 15th which is a 9 point drop (three times as many as Arsenal) and if their league performance held they would finish on 44 points which is a 20-point drop (almost twice as much as Arsenal).
It's a substantial difference.
It also wasn't a great master plan, their initial plan kinda flopped. They signed Willian for big wages and told him the plan was to win the Champions League in three seasons.
Possibly , I know it was from 2023, not sure when exactly I thought it was after the League Cup final but it hardly changes the point. It's a myth that Ten Hag abandoned his ''Ajax style'' and/or ''gave into'' the players demands to play transition football.
He spent £600m assembling a squad to play his football and it didn't work.
I always find it funny how people forget that Lukaku was a success in England. McTominay as well is no different to his time here, where he'd a solid player and within the right role will pop up with a goal.
I'm alright with Amorim getting more time but..
You don't necessarily have to take a steps backwards to move forwards.
There's no guarantee that taking a step backwards doesn't just leave us further away than ever. After all we heard a lot of this last season under Ten Hag, that we needed to be patient and persevere with his new transition football. And we'd reap the benefits next season (this season) once the players adapted. Well here we are and we just ended up taking another 8 steps backwards. Make that move again and we're in the Championship in 26/27.
You can only apply your logic if Amorim had been here since the start of the season and the fall off in points and league position was entirely due to him. That’s the only way he can be held responsible for a comparison between this season and the previous three.
not at all. I was pointing out how bad the football was throughout those 2 finishes. He ruined us.I’d rather finish 3rd/8th, win trophies than be near the bottom of the table and play worse football.
You think Ten Hag is god so I'm not surprised you have such low standards.
Arteta also played to the strength of his existing squads when he first came in, whilst still knowing full well they weren't the group to take them to the next level. He even got his only cup win with them.
Oh wow! Peter was a starting keeper as a teenager in Danish first division. You have changed me mind. I think we should throw in an academy keeper into the fire pit asap.
The first point is true for most top managers but it hasn't always been the case at Manchester United.
The second point I mentioned showed not just in the signing but the other options we were linked with Davies, Nuno Mendes that we were targeting a specific profile. We could have gone with Alvaro Carrecas but we showed we want a specific type of left back/ wing back. This is crucial when building a style. We saw in Ten Hag first window were our primary target was De Jong in midfield but he ended up with totally different profiles Casemiro and Eriksen, that showed the manager/club didn't have a specific vision or compromised because they couldn't land De Jong. This also applies to outgoings you see the manager isn't trying to hard to make it work with Wingers like Rashford, Antony and even Garnacho who aren't natural fits to any role within his system.
I'll like to see what the team would look like when the Amorim, Wilcox and Vivell work are able to get 5-6 players suited the the system. That's what I'm holding on to at the moment.
It should be said that De Jong only played 18 months for ETH, while he was a very good player, he wasn't instrumental to his style and he was replaced by very different players in Gravenberch, Alvarez and Van de Beek. Also how often is it that a head coach requires 5 or 6 specific profiles in order to do his job? People mention the likes of Klopp or Guardiola but it's not true people can look at their various teams and they will realize that they continuously use players with different profiles, strength and weaknesses. While the overarching principles and end results are close, the pieces and the way they are used are different.
If Moyes can come in for a relegation battling Everton, shore them up and take them above us in the table - I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have Amorim come in and do a bit better than 4 wins in 15 PL games - and I like Amorim, I think he’s a good manager dealt a very bad hand by the Ineos Glazer combo, but it’s a bit surprising to see fans above saying it’s unrealistic to expect more.
There is a perplexing, almost masochistic, willingness among vast swathes of Manchester United's support-base to sink to unspeakable depths, suffer for suffering's sake and lay multiple seasons to waste, in the belief that the manager-of-the-hour is uniquely up to the task of restoring the club as we take a few steps back to then take a giant leap forward (because magic, that's why!) while side-stepping inconsequential short term objectives and expectations, that actually need to be met to boost flagging morale, earn credit for the future and keep the money flowing to facilitate the refurbishment of the first team squad. Might seem strange to supporters of other major clubs, especially well-run ones or where there's a tendency to consider new appointments with a healthy dose of skepticism, but it is what it is.
Perhaps certain folk are too disillusioned with the present and this is them concocting a bright future to compartmentalize and console themselves, at a time when there's not much to be optimistic about? Or perhaps this is informed by Ferguson's anomalistic tenure. Where he led the club to 11th and 12th placed finishes in the league, before turning things around and going on to dominate English football. Except, he had previously earned some credit by virtue of stablizing the results in 1986–87 (from 6 losses and 3 wins in 13 matches to 8 losses and 12 wins in the following 31 matches) and finishing 2nd in 1987–88 (with the highest points tally in club history, if memory serves). And, crucially, the competitive landscape of English football back then was rather dissimilar to what we have in the present moment. Manchester United doesn't just need to overcome the likes of Liverpool, Manchester City and Arsenal now, who have stolen a march on us, but also clubs that are hungry and punching above their weight class in Bournemouth and Nottingham Forest. Every season in the wilderness gives others the opportunity to chip away at our previously towering economic advantages and takes us further away from our ultimate sporting objectives, and makes it even harder for us to re-establish ourselves.
By the end of this campaign, Amorim would have managed 40 matches or thereabouts — typically, that's a good enough sample size to “judge” a manager. If a manager says a lot of the right things but can't have his team operating a level that is greater than the sum of parts and keeps surrendering points in winnable games to arrive at a points-per-game ratio of 1.00, maybe it's not the right manager for Manchester United, qualitative issues with regard to the playing staff notwithstanding. And even though many of us were enthused by this appointment, he must give us something tangible to build our hopes around, or we're grasping at straws and operating with blind faith.
Amorim currently making him look that way
I know you're joking but my god, when you actually look at the breakdown of the money he spent and where the squad is now... he spent £600m and the best he could come up with was a 6 game unbeaten PL streak, a horrific forward line and zero depth in midfield, to top it off he lost a horrific amount of games. I know this forum likes to throw shit at Ole but my god what ETH did with this club has set us back years. The damage he's done will only become obvious in the next year or two. We have to replace the following:
End of Contracts:
Heaton, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, Eriksen, Casemiro
Injury Plagued (can't be relied on):
Shaw, Mount, Martinez, Malacia
Not Good Enough/Reasons (bit more subjective):
Rashford, Antony, Onana, Hojlund, Greenwood
Dear god its depressing looking at our squad right now. We have to hope we have a few gems coming through the academy because we're really going to need a few freebies. We also need to hope that INEOS has gotten a little more control of our scouting and transfer team because we can't afford to spend big money on duds anymore. We have little money left and if we are going to start building a new Stadium that will restrict further transfers even further.
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I mean he did give you loads of examples, bit unfair to turn on the sarcasm for just one of them.
You are spot on. Ten Hag was allowed to run around with a cheque book and buy his former players and those who played against him in the Dutch league. There are then all the suggestions about the agency he is linked to being involved in a number of deals. There seems to have been no checks or rebuttals from the management team. His signings to virtually a man are awful, nowhere near the quality we need. The squad is truly terrible right now. This summer's signings under INEOS not much better, Ugarte the best of a bad bunch. ETH will go down in history as the worse manager we have ever had for the damage he was allowed to do. He is a terrible, terrible judge of a player. Not just his signings but his refusal to give Amad game time.
No no, I was seriously impressed. I am not stubborn, I can change my mind. I can't wait to see Elyh or the Polish dude whose I can't spell start the next game.
Jokes (or sarcasm) apart, I picked an example because the post was nonsense. I couldn't be bothered to pick one by one from a list of guys who played in the MLS or the Danish first division or Ajax or Hull City. Also, I don't think we have someone as highly rated as Victor Valdes in our ranks.
When I mentioned "The manager", I meant Amorim can't go ahead and bench Onana for Elyh or the other guy. This is the toughest, roughest and the most physical league in world football. Even De Gea, who was mentioned on the list as a Europa league winner, had to come here and spend time on the bench while he got to terms with the physicality of the league. And that was is in a season when we were going for the league. Now we can't buy a win and are only a few points above the relegation zone. There is little chance the manager is going to throw in an academy player.
I wasn't denying that managers at other teams give young goal keepers a chance. If they didn't, we won't have any GK younger than twenty five playing for any team in the world at the moment. For a top team, especially in this league, you'll have to be really highly rated to get a chance. Even Bayindir, who has been here for two seasons, can't get more than an odd game. To expect someone from the academy to replace Onana is preposterous.
I don't need a lesson in history to know that.
It's not preposterous because it 100% depend on the player in question, there is no other relevant factor. It's not age, league or even club dependent.
Does Amorim have that player at the moment?
Ole was levels above Ten Hag.
All that money for so little on the pitch is where the vast majority of our problems lie.
I don't know.
You say that like the football under Ten Hag wasn't boring and dogshit as well.
Good post, I'd say it's a mixture of all those factors.
There's definitely an element of the fanbase that place every new manager on a pedestal and let themselves believe that everyone else is within the club is working against them. And they're the hero we need that will lead us to the promised land if only we let them rip the squad and club apart and rebuild it in their own image. While we need to just keep the faith for 3-5 years as he does this regardless of results and performances.
I mean, I think your underestimating Elyh Harrison's ability a bit, he was our reserve team player of the year last year playing over half his PL2 games at 17 years old.
Agree to disagree.
I find it extremely hypocritical that you are against giving manager time because "it's stupid to expect him to be the next SAF", but you are willing to fire him 3 months into the job because he can't turn bad/average squad into title contenders, SAF style.
I don't disagree with what you've said.
But on the other hand there is a group of the fanbase that have unrealistically high expectations of any new manager and are not even prepared to give them a reasonable amount of time before they feel he should be sacked. And this is well before you hit the 3 year mark, it would probably be closer to 3 months.
There is so much emotion in football. For more blind faith and hope see the threads on Höjlund, Antony, and Sancho. They were all gonna make it big time, and so is Amorim. No doubt about it. They never learn. Not to mention all the half-decent youngsters that get hyped all time.
Is anyone saying fire him now?
He should get the minimum of the rest of the season - that will be two chances at trophies + 25 odd PL games. If there is no improvement to what we have seen so far, that is where I think we have two main groups forming on the caf. One who would want a new manager + One who would trust him with the summer/pre season/transfer window.
Again, this is what few of you posters can't seem to comprehend. No one is asking Amorim to go on a title winning form. He's being asked to have us appear as a half decent, competent team, not have us in relegation form since he took over.
Yeah. Our surgeon sucked.
What are these unrealistically high expectations?
Was sold last summer.
How many posts say Amorim is undoubtably going to make it big time? All I can see are posts saying not to give up on him yet.