I know it is, but try telling that to these posters.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I 99% agree the only caveat would be that the system (how we are playing it right now) means that we have an extra defender, dropping Maquire (for instance) and playing an extra midfielder would give us more possession further up the field, but then we come back to your point, who? and the only answer is youth and I think if they were ready Amorim would be implementing them, maybe if Martinez had not got injured he would have moved up into DM.
He should try 4231 for 5-10 games and see how it works, it might work slightly better than what he is trying now. I can't see us winning anything with 3421, it is clearly not working. Agreed on the transfers.
Dalot Maguire Yoro Mazraoui
Eriksen Ugarte
Dorgu Bruno Garnacho
Zirkzee
Eriksen and Casemiro could play 45 min each.
Hoijlund
Fernandes, Zirkzee
Casemiro, Ugarte
Drogu, MDL, Maguire, Mazraoui, Dalot
Onana
This is the team he sent to the field against Everton, it cries desperation. Uber defensive to the point of being scared to play. Up front 3 slow players, resigning us to playing long ball and praying for some rebound for scoring opportunities. Dreadful all together.
Fernandes, Zirkzee
Casemiro, Ugarte
Drogu, MDL, Maguire, Mazraoui, Dalot
Onana
This is the team he sent to the field against Everton, it cries desperation. Uber defensive to the point of being scared to play. Up front 3 slow players, resigning us to playing long ball and praying for some rebound for scoring opportunities. Dreadful all together.
The issue was playing this system when the players were available.
The players now not being available isn't the reasoning behind Amorim playing this way, it's always been this way.
I can understand a manager who wants to play a particular way, but when it's obviously not working then there needs to be some flexibility and adaptation, doesn't necessarily mean a wholesale change from his principles, just a slight tweak here and there.
There's a big argument to be had that whilst not the greatest squad in the world, this United team is a lot better than 15th place, the manager is underperforming, the players look disjointed in this system, yet nothing has changed, if anything it's getting worse.
I personally am willing to stick with Amorim for what it's worth, but he is definitely underperforming currently and is showing no signs of being able to arrest the slide.
If the club and the management have lost confidence in him, it cannot be defended, on the other hand, to keep him with the sole argument that he has not had a summer break to build up the team as he wants it to look like.
If the management is satisfied with what they see and experience from Amorim, of course they must back him and keep him despite the poor results. But if the management has lost faith in Amorim's abilities as United manager, there is only one way.
Personally, I find it hard to see what Amorim has contributed that is indicative of improvements from the ETH era.
So literally every manager has the same issues with the players, but it's the managers who are the problem
Even Ole had issues but covered for them right until the end. Poor bloke.
We are more compact defensively but that is because we play 3 CBs, and it is undone by many individual mistakes. I think he has started very poorly.
So literally every manager has the same issues with the players, but it's the managers who are the problem
Even Ole had issues but covered for them right until the end. Poor bloke.
Whilst we can blame the players all you want, you still need to look at the manager.
I understand you bring Ole into this but let me ask you... Did Ole have the following?
Onana, De Ligt, Mazroui, Yoro, Licha, Dorgu, Ugarte, Casemiro, Zirkzee, Hojlund, Garnacho, Antony, Eriksen, Mount?
Its actually silly to say its not the manager when majority of our players have changed in the last 2 years.
Every game in the PL with this setup feels like we're trying to get a valuable point in some European away fixture, and the manager is completely overthinking it. No matter who we're playing rather it's Southampton or Liverpool he'll setup the same. I just don't understand why we opted for a manager so married to one formation, surely the more logical thing to do was to mimic what the current top performing clubs in the league are doing and build from there.
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It starts at the top of the organisation. Ffs
If the players can do what they want, get overpaid and the managers get dumped it's what they will do...
It's not been the same players for 12 years mate, come on...So literally every manager has the same issues with the players, but it's the managers who are the problem
Even Ole had issues but covered for them right until the end. Poor bloke.
Same culture in the dressing room
Nonsense. In 12 years it will have changed a lot due to all the varying personnel. You just refuse to give the managers any criticism.
Apart from including Garnacho, what else would you have changed? Amad is out for the rest of the season i think.
I can see that Ineos are trying to have a reset by getting rid of any overpaid players and cutting our losses, but that's leaving the squad extra thin in experienced pros..
United have been a destination for players looking for a payday since the Glazers took over and motivation to perform has been low because there was no accountability.
They thought we had the players to play 3421. We don't and Ashworth was correct, hence he was fired.
I dont understand what you mean?
The top of the organisation has changed multiple times...
Even now, there are radical changes along with the manager. The players cannot do what they want though, we have seen Ronaldo, Rashford etc... all go because of that reason.
So I am really struggling to understand your point here.
It's the same point that Rangnick made. We lack hungry motivated pros who see themselves as having a point to prove and need to grow.
Ineos are trying to rebalance but we don't have imbalance because senior pros are not pulling their weight and have experience gap in the squad in the 24-28 age range.
Yeah I get it, they just never respond.
Would be nice to see Amorim experiment a bit more like Alonso does at Leverkusen, he sometimes switches to a back 4. Even if it just helps the relationship with the players instead of a single minded approach.
Yeah, feck it. Let’s just give up on him and not back him whatsoever & start from step one. Yet again.
Great decision
So you saying young players are not motivated? The likes of Garnacho, Mainoo, Yoro, Amad are not motivated?
Or are you talking about players like Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazroui, Dalot Mount, Licha, Antony, Malacia, Rashford who are all in the age bracket you are talking about?
Its all about tactics and coaching really, the managers struggling to coach a top team.
He won’t reply
There’s literally nothing else we could do besides Garn and one of the kids, who, as proven by Oni’s 20 minutes, are not ready to be relied on for a full 90 yet.
But let’s leave logic aside in other to criticise the manager for the sorry state of the squad
We don’t need to ditch all 11 in one window. Just adding 3 or 4 key pieces would do wonders, and help some of the remaining starters. An actual striker who can score, another quality wingback, another midfielder who can actually control and progress the ball, and if there’s any money left another quicker CB and GK replacement. But those first 3 alone would change things up massively. Then we carry on in the next window and so on. Like always, we need to get the transfer activity right before worrying about anything else. It’s fundamental to turning things around.
The basics of football are obviously fundamentally the same but a sudden change in formation with a different manager would cause problems for most teams.
Yes. That formation doesn't cause Onana and Maguire to make mistakes. It does stop our few talented players from having a positive impact on the game especially when they're still relatively young and inexperienced.
Under the Abramovich ownership, Chelsea generally bought well and always signed adaptable players. This is clearly very different to us.
That argument was always a weird one. I saw someone say Rashford had thrown different managers under the bus and they included Van Gaal in that ffs.
The squad is very different to 2/3 years ago never mind 12/13 years ago. It's clearly not just the players. Something else is clearly going very wrong.
Well I for one, am delighted that he's our manager. I fully support him and his vision for how he wants us to play. The time to judge him is next season. It's only then that we will see if there has been any progression or improvement.
People are hypocrites. They pretend to be believers in patience, yet when push comes to shove, they are just another chap in the crowd with their pitchfork.
People are hypocrites. They pretend to be believers in patience, yet when push comes to shove, they are just another chap in the crowd with their pitchfork.
First thing first, ditch 3 CB's system.
Zirkzee
Garnacho, Fernandes, Dalot
Casemiro, Ugarte
Drogu, Yoro, MDL, Mazraoui.
Onana
Dalot isn't a world beater but his best games came when he was playing on the right. In the current absence of wingers, play him at the RW, at least he's relatively quick and has shown to be able to dribble past his man on occasion. Mazraoui with him to provide some overlapping, backup etc.
Not perfect but better than the crap we've been served week in, week out.
I'm all ears, well eyes in this particular instance. What do you suggest?
Delighted because he has shown relegation form since he's come in and has us playing so wonderfully well that we are creating less than 0.5 xG more often that not?
If he wants people to believe in him, he has to show that there is something to believe. He himself has said he needs to earn time with results which he is completely failing at. People would be a bit more patient if atleast the performances were encouraging which isn't the case either as we are getting worse every game.
So your grand solution is to give Dalot, one of our worst players all season, a more prominent attacking role.
I mean that just makes our point for us
At the very least put Drogu there given he’s already shown to have 10x the attacking instincts than Dalot.
No one is suggesting it’s the SAME players, but the players are the problem - or, more correctly, the poor transfer activity in the last 12 years.
The ratio of poor signings to bad signings is absurd in that time, and particularly with our attacking options, we’ve regressed even further in the last 3 years.
I just can't believe what I'm reading in this thread. I know it's human nature to have negativity bias, but are people pretending like they've seen nothing from us that shows what this can be? We've been to the Etihad, Anfield and the Emirates and played way above our actual quality (probably excluding the second half of the first Arsenal game), and definitely way above how we've performed against the better teams in recent years at these places. And there are people calling for his head after a 4 month period in which he's had around 10 training sessions. I think it's genuine lunacy.
When your watching games, are you not sitting with your head in your hands at the basic mistakes the players are making? Onana has been chucking the ball in his own net or at least to the opposition players feet since he joined and our back up is injured, what on earth do you want any manager to do about stuff like that?! He is clearly as frustrated (I bet more) than we all are, but he has just as much power as us to do anything about it, these players are horrendous in any system they've played in, so he'd be as well play his way entirely and see if he can salvage any of the squad for future.
When your watching games, are you not sitting with your head in your hands at the basic mistakes the players are making? Onana has been chucking the ball in his own net or at least to the opposition players feet since he joined and our back up is injured, what on earth do you want any manager to do about stuff like that?! He is clearly as frustrated (I bet more) than we all are, but he has just as much power as us to do anything about it, these players are horrendous in any system they've played in, so he'd be as well play his way entirely and see if he can salvage any of the squad for future.
Spot on.
They do though, every post is "these players have thrown every manager under the bus!"
Grand solution? Don't be pathetic mate.So your grand solution is to give Dalot, one of our worst players all season, a more prominent attacking role.
I mean that just makes our point for us
At the very least put Drogu there given he’s already shown to have 10x the attacking instincts than Dalot.
Funny thing, that same Dalot, back when he was playing in his position (albeit prior to injury) was our player of the season '23-24 iirc.
Unlike Hoijlund, Zirkzee, Fernandes, he's got some pace and, as stated earlier, can occasionally dribble past his man.
But hey, that setup and lineup against Everton did wonders, for us, so there's no need to change. Front trio was buzzing all around creating like prime RRT.
If you play Dorgu on the right, who's going to play on the left?
Yes, delighted. He's a talented coach. He clearly understands his system and what he needs to implement it. Judging him now is silly. Next season will be more relevant to gage any signs of life. Until then, no need for any of the dramatics.
That's the issue though, why can't we play like that more often?
Is it the players, manager, coaching, a bit of everything?
Exactly. is it too much to ask to show some progress in our game play ? I mean , we aren't even asking him to win games. Show some progress in attacking game. Show something in final third.
But hey - players aren't good enough. so he can't show that unless he has Messi and Ronaldo.
Whilst I agree a change in formation can cause issues, that is if you're successful in a certain style. The same players struggled with 4-2-3-1, so I dont get what people are trying to get at. Its not like under 4-2-3-1 they all looked really comfortable and we were playing some exciting football.