Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

:lol:

Because you're refusing to think about how the squad has changed since then. The 24/25 squad is a fecking trainwreck, and the 22/23 squad was decent. If you don't see all the reasons why, especially after they've been pointed out here dozens of times, there's no helping you.

Since we finished 8th last season? :confused:

Dozens of times, wind your neck in mate. :lol:
 
Why would you want Amorim to have to work with these players? I can't wait to see the back of them(with the exception of about five).

There's no squad rebuild coming mate, the clubs skint.

But I am speaking more generally, the days of every new manager getting to tear the squad up and spend a fortune on players they want should be behind us. I'd hope form here on out the club are driving recruitment and looking beyond any one manager.
 
Can you post any thread before this season that said we have a relegation level squad? How is the drop off this season vs last explainable by the squad.

I have enough memory that the consensus on here was that we actually had a good transfer window under Ineos. De Ligt and Mazroui from Bayern, who looked an upgrade on AWB. A specialist DM with legs in Ugarte. Zirkzee replacing Martial who never played. The only miss has been McTominay's goals.

Indeed, it's a case of recency bias me thinks.

There were people saying last summer was one of the best in the clubs recent history. I wasn't overwhelmed by the arrivals but none of them are poor players.
 
Will the Amorim revolution be televised? He sets us up comically in the first half, we are utterly abject, then makes changes in the 2nd half to rectify his own feck ups -- and people think that shows good management. Making Everton look like ballers, we truly live in exciting times. It wouldn't bother me if the sacked Amorim tonight, or if he walked. Even when we do magically get the players he needs, it's going to be slow, ponderous football. We are not going to dominate the PL the way his Sporting team did unless we suddenly get best-in-class players for every position.

It's not happening.

We were bad yes but Everton also have been playing better as of late (I watched the Liverpool game and Liverpool took the lead against the run of play in the second half before Everton earned a very deserved draw at the death. Then they went on to beat palace away). But yes I’m also not optimistic with ffp and Ineos about our future. Nothing good is going to come fast so we are in for a long long ride. I hope I’m wrong but everything points to that…
 
Amorim may or maybe not be a good manager, but at the end of the day, it was a brain dead decision to appoint him at the behest of the CEO. The whole point of appointing a director of football is to fecking direct the way that the team is going to play.
I think that Berrada was of the mind that Man City thought that Amorim could be the successor to Pep, so he thought we'll get in there first. Amorim would probably work at City because they could buy all the players he needed.
Ashworth probably thought nah, he plays a certain system, we either can't indulge him on that, or if we do, and it goes pear shaped, the next manager through the door has to play exactly the same system, which limits candidates.
And, it's very short sighted whatever you look at it. Amorim is garbage, replace a lot of players from his system, Amorim is fantastic and he would probably feck off to Madrid /Barcelona in three years.
Hiring a DOF and letting the CEO appoint the manager is fecking remedial. Might as well give me the gig of appointing the manager.
 
The only thing that gives me hope is the prospect of recouping some significant money and saving high wages from the Rashford, Sancho, Anthony situations, plus any other outgoings we might be able to get some money for.

I don’t think we’ll get significant investment in terms of actual outlay, but I think our transfer policy is going to be dramatically different than it has been which will still allow for new blood to come in. We’ll look to rebuild the squad with cheaper, lower profile signings on lower wages like Mazraoui and Dorgu. That should allow us to bring in 4-6 players, pending sales. With very smart scouting that could work and put us in a better place, but it’s hard to predict given how much this squad needs.
What you've described is essentially what I'm expecting/hoping for.
My main fear is that I've relatively little confidence in us scouting anywhere in the region of 4-6 good players.

I'm still supportive of Amorim. He's inherited a squad with very little goalscoring threat. Realistically we need not just one but two strikers. But we also need more goals from all the midfield positions.
 
i was replying specifically to your point about players bought by ETH, that every one was good enough for a top 5-10 club. Hojlund wouldn't start for many teams in the bottom half, let alone top 5-10. Same goes for Casemiro.

On current form?


when big clubs sell players there's usually a good reason - Madrid sold us Casemiro because they knew he was on his last legs.

Casemiro might well be done yes.

Italian clubs sold us Hojlund and Zirkzee but they were hardly prolific in Italy let alone the PL. they were just bad buys. we've had a lot of those in the last 10 years.

Zirkzee I'm still not sure on as I've said but Hojlund is short on confidence. While I might not think he'll ever be a world beater he's a better player than he's shown this season.
 
I agree Amorim's iteration of this system is perplexing, the spaces between the different regions of the pitch is far too significant.

It's a stark contrast to Alonso who has Leverkusen very compressed in possession. The wingbacks at times match the midfield pivot in spaces, so it's not an isolated midfield two but can range between three or four in the build up. This is excluding the rotations of the forward players dropping off to also provide an option.

All in all this approach allows Leverkusen to overload the opposition team not just through the width but in narrower positions on the pitch.

Whereas Amorims interpretation has every player multiple yards away from one another. From the little I watched of Sporing in the champions league, the current build up sequence with United is not unfamiliar to what he produced in Portugal the biggest difference is that his defensive line was significantly higher.

If the team do play further up the pitch it might help reduce the spaces which is why in the second half against Everton when Yoro and co was far further forward Everton couldn't cope. So the solution for Amorim to enable the team to perform better is to be more attacking.

It's evidenced on how the team has actually performed in contrast to his more restrictive measures. It's these small details that if Ruben gets right he'll have my confidence but until he does it more consistently he doesn't have a future at United.
I don't think it's so much his system as to why we're shit. I think whoever we have in charge will likely be shit for us, while our attacking personnel remain the same. That's what I meant when I said put Scholes and Keane in midfield and we're still shit. If they have the attackers we have in front of us, there's only so much anyone can do. You need difference makers in attack, and we don't have any.
 
He started one game for them. Their last game. And was immediately relegated to the bench for the next one.

Emery was displeased with him was he?

I see he came on and set up both their goals today to beat Chelsea. If he starts the next game is he first choice? Or is 3-4 games too small a sample size?
 
Let's be honest, it's difficult to improve with such a short and lacking quality squad... you only have to watch the first 15 minutes where you see easy passes that only end up with the opponent or out of bounds! The squad is pathetic but Amorin hasn't improved at all since he arrived, you see Moyes at Everton doing magic or you see one Spiritu Santo at Forest doing magic.
 
This thread is a microcosim of society really. So many people are only interested in instant gratification. The reality is, that it is just not possible to turn things around so quickly in certain situations.

Please try to see the bigger picture, we all know this squad is absolutely rotten and needs serious improvement. Do you really think INEOS are going to do nothing in the summer? They are absolutely committed to turning this around but it will take time. They were hamstrung in January and could only do so much, in the summer, they can take bigger action. Right now is literally a waiting game and is it nice to feel like the games we are playing are almost meaningless in terms of results in the middle of February? No, of course not.

Don't fall foul to the media histrionics, they only want drama around United, it's their cash cow, so they will incite it. Support your club when it needs it most, get behind what the manager and INEOS are trying to do, they are trying to purge the club following decades of mismanagement.

Lastly, I see comments everywhere about 'boring football', 'system isn't working', 'we're too passive' etc. Do you really think this is what Amorim wants? The players are shit scared. Can you not see how pissed off he is on the touchline by the trepidation almost all of his squad show every single game? He looks like he could explode with frustration most games. He is doing everything possible to get these guys to be braver on the pitch but they just don't seem to have it in them. What exactly do we want him to do about that?
 
This thread is a microcosim of society really. So many people are only interested in instant gratification. The reality is, that it is just not possible to turn things around so quickly in certain situations.

Please try to see the bigger picture, we all know this squad is absolutely rotten and needs serious improvement. Do you really think INEOS are going to do nothing in the summer? They are absolutely committed to turning this around but it will take time. They were hamstrung in January and could only do so much, in the summer, they can take bigger action. Right now is literally a waiting game and is it nice to feel like the games we are playing are almost meaningless in terms of results in the middle of February? No, of course not.

Don't fall foul to the media histrionics, they only want drama around United, it's their cash cow, so they will incite it. Support your club when it needs it most, get behind what the manager and INEOS are trying to do, they are trying to purge the club following decades of mismanagement.

Lastly, I see comments everywhere about 'boring football', 'system isn't working', 'we're too passive' etc. Do you really think this is what Amorim wants? The players are shit scared. Can you not see how pissed off he is on the touchline by the trepidation almost all of his squad show every single game? He looks like he could explode with frustration most games. He is doing everything possible to get these guys to be braver on the pitch but they just don't seem to have it in them. What exactly do we want him to do about that?

4 months is not instant. Haven't we learnt that giving the wrong manager 2-3 years and gazillion of cash does not make them better?

If he cant even steady the ship, get some mood going. I dont have high hopes
 
He says “we know we have to get through this season somehow” as if he will magically transform us over the summer.

What happened to “at United you have to try to win every game”. Has he already lost that belief?
You can transform a team quite magically over a summer.
4 months is not instant. Haven't we learnt that giving the wrong manager 2-3 years and gazillion of cash does not make them better?

If he cant even steady the ship, get some mood going. I dont have high hopes
Realistically the types of players he would want would be perfect for any manager after. What do we need to excel in his system?

A good number 9? Yeh anyone can use that.

Two mobile number 10s who can occupy the half space? Yeh sounds good

Two athletic midfielders who can work in a two. One more a ball winner and the other a bit more progressive ball carrier/passer? Yeh great they could both play in a midfield three.

Two wing backs who are essentially wingers? Great they could just be on our wingers if we reverted to a 4-3-3

Three centre backs, two of whom are quick enough to get out to defending the channels? Well wouldn’t that be a good skill for any CB to have rather than the lumbering Maguire and De Ligt?

Amorim basically wants technical and athletic players. Us investing in his style wouldn’t harm us because the majority of this players could work going forward.
 
4 months is not instant. Haven't we learnt that giving the wrong manager 2-3 years and gazillion of cash does not make them better?

If he cant even steady the ship, get some mood going. I dont have high hopes.
There is no ship to steady here. The ship has holes in it that can't be plugged right now. We have no strikers of any discernable goalscoring quality. We have questionable centre mids and a right back. Our left back has been here for three games (and wouldn't you know, looks good), our best centre back this year looked today like he'd never seen a football before, our goalkeeper chucks the ball in his own net and if he manages to avoid that, chucks it at the oppositions feet so they can do it for him. What exactly do you want with this?

The only players in this squad that I categorically wouldn't sell is Amad, Bruno, Dorgu, Mainoo and Yoro. Yoro has been injured half the year and is 19 years old, Amad is out the rest of this year and is still young at 22. Mainoo is out for another 2 months and is 19 years old, Dorgu has played 225 minutes of English football and is 20 years old. Bruno is doing his best impression of the best player at school who has to play out of position in centre mid because he has to be involved in everything for this team to function at all. I ask again, what exactly do you think any manager can do with this?

It is madness to go after the manager here, he is categorically not THE problem.
 
You can transform a team quite magically over a summer.

Realistically the types of players he would want would be perfect for any manager after. What do we need to excel in his system?

A good number 9? Yeh anyone can use that.

Two mobile number 10s who can occupy the half space? Yeh sounds good

Two athletic midfielders who can work in a two. One more a ball winner and the other a bit more progressive ball carrier/passer? Yeh great they could both play in a midfield three.

Two wing backs who are essentially wingers? Great they could just be on our wingers if we reverted to a 4-3-3

Three centre backs, two of whom are quick enough to get out to defending the channels? Well wouldn’t that be a good skill for any CB to have rather than the lumbering Maguire and De Ligt?

Amorim basically wants technical and athletic players. Us investing in his style wouldn’t harm us because the majority of this players could work going forward.

We've said this everytime we're about to spunk 200M on the new starting XI

If he can't make whatever he had at the moment at least working to a midtable level, then he dont deserve the blank cheque

We had a bad habit of writing out all our players every new manager come. McTominay is doing fine elsewhere

He doesnt change overnight. He's just being played correctly and used accordingly

If Amorim cant even get the current team playing "well" (well as in cohesive) or to the very lease steady and constantly improving every game... I have little hopes

Our biggest mistake is not ruthless enough and giving managers too much time and money

Edit : and let's not forget come next season it's still the same clown that brought us Zikzee and MDL and most currect XI were brought by them, but somehow they'll get it right next season. They can't even get the manager appointment right. They're late to sack ETH and too early to identity that Amorim needs a different sets of player
 
Last edited:
We've said this everytime we're about to spunk 200M on the new starting XI

If he can't make whatever he had at the moment at least working to a midtable level, then he dont deserve the blank cheque

We had a bad habit of writing out all our players every new manager come. McTominay is doing fine elsewhere

He doesnt change overnight. He's just being played correctly and used accordingly

If Amorim cant even get the current team playing "well" (well as in cohesive) or to the very lease steady and constantly improving every game... I have little hopes

Our biggest mistake is not ruthless enough and giving managers too much time and money

Edit : and let's not forget come next season it's still the same clown that brought us Zikzee and MDL and most currect XI were brought by them, but somehow they'll get it right next season. They can't even get the manager appointment right. They're late to sack ETH and too early to identity that Amorim needs a different sets of player
An article literally came out yesterday stating Zirkzee was an Ashworth purchase and De Ligt was a Ten Hag request which Ashworth argued for as a show of support to Ten Hag.
 
Since we finished 8th last season? :confused:

Dozens of times, wind your neck in mate. :lol:

Last season's finish has also been addressed dozens of times in this thread, if you think we were good value for that 8th place then, again, I can't help you.
 
There's no squad rebuild coming mate, the clubs skint.

But I am speaking more generally, the days of every new manager getting to tear the squad up and spend a fortune on players they want should be behind us. I'd hope form here on out the club are driving recruitment and looking beyond any one manager.

I think having players who have the necessary intensity, athleticism and pace would be beneficial for any manager. The traits that we are so lacking and a big reason why we can't compete consistently in EPL
You can transform a team quite magically over a summer.

Realistically the types of players he would want would be perfect for any manager after. What do we need to excel in his system?

A good number 9? Yeh anyone can use that.

Two mobile number 10s who can occupy the half space? Yeh sounds good

Two athletic midfielders who can work in a two. One more a ball winner and the other a bit more progressive ball carrier/passer? Yeh great they could both play in a midfield three.

Two wing backs who are essentially wingers? Great they could just be on our wingers if we reverted to a 4-3-3

Three centre backs, two of whom are quick enough to get out to defending the channels? Well wouldn’t that be a good skill for any CB to have rather than the lumbering Maguire and De Ligt?

Amorim basically wants technical and athletic players. Us investing in his style wouldn’t harm us because the majority of this players could work going forward.
Bingo!
 
Last season's finish has also been addressed dozens of times in this thread, if you think we were good value for that 8th place then, again, I can't help you.

This thread is basically the same people repeating the same thing over and over again. Some kinda weird support group for incredibly impatient fans who have a very naive assessment of the current squad.
 
Ok so if the formation doesn't really matter and the players we need to make it work would be good in any system. Then shouldn't Amorim (and ten hag) be doing better with the players available? Saying 'when he gets HIS players he'll turn it around' is kind of overlooking that while its obviously not a top tier squad that most of them are better than they've been showing most weeks? That a lot of them are in pretty terrible form leaving aside their quality?
 
None of those big games matter in the grand scheme of things if you are Drawing to Ipswich, losing to Wolves, getting completely outplayed off the pitch by Newcastle, Brighton, Crystal Palace. Has winning those big games a couple times a season saved any manager post Fergie? Nope.
Was your expectation was for a manager to come into this shambles of a squad in November having never managed Braga and Sporting prior..and do what exactly in the toughest league in the world? Take the relegation form of basically ten months and instantly turn it around to compete for top 4?

I really don't understand the way people are judging this season with the level of scrutiny deserving a manager with at least a full preseason under the belt.

Then again maybe I'm the fool. Fans were the same way with Ralf Ragnick...an interim manager
 
We will obviously change personnel in the playing squad with players who have grit and determination.

These very same players have got one manager sacked, who played a completely different formation. So please enlighten me as you're the beacon of knowledge, which formation would have us wiping teams out?

You need to realise that there are certain characteristics managers prefer to different managers, if they didn't, football would be a very boring sport.
We don’t have the money to change our squad dramatically as some on here hope will happen. Most of our team will remain the same and we will hear pretty much the same excuse as we are getting now.

I don’t think any formation with this lot will make us champions but a 3-4-3 where we are putting square cogs in round holes all over the place is definitely not the way you build a team’s morale up when they are going through potentially their worst ever run. We are currently 16th with almost every player underperforming, yet this manager will get 3-4 new players and the team will magically turn a corner over the summer - that’s basically the gist of your blind faith.

As I said, our fanbase will never stop blindly trusting a new manager at the helm as most of us have only ever seen the greatest manager leading us. However, every man after him has been a disappointment to various extent and here we are again, with the fanbase putting another new man on a pedestal before he has even gotten us in the top half of the table. We are far worse off now than we were when he started getting more time to train us, yet he is the guy who will have us purring with a full preseason?
 
Basically every successful manager in recent years in the league has turned over a huge proportion of their playing squad.
Yes they do, unless you are Arne Slot of course.

However a lot of failed managers also have a major squad overhaul. The issue is to let a guy completely start building a squad only to suit his needs even before he has shown he can actually get us better. That’s the biggest issue I have with this current thinking where we just ignore everything that’s right in front of us and go all in on another manager only to rue in 6 months time.

Let him prove he can get us playing better a certain way with the players he has before we entrust him with massive funds.
 
Yes they do, unless you are Arne Slot of course.

However a lot of failed managers also have a major squad overhaul. The issue is to let a guy completely start building a squad only to suit his needs even before he has shown he can actually get us better. That’s the biggest issue I have with this current thinking where we just ignore everything that’s right in front of us and go all in on another manager only to rue in 6 months time.

Let him prove he can get us playing better a certain way with the players he has before we entrust him with massive funds.
The players we have are clearly crap though. Even disregarding Amorim, they need to be replaced. As long as the replacements are of the right physical and age profile they won't become black holes like Mount and Casemiro.
 
Put Scholes and Keane in the midfield for this team and it'd still be pretty shit to be honest. Would of course be better but our midfield pairing is far from the problem currently anyway. Without a goalscorer and better decision making in attack, we will never get anywhere.
I don't think we can afford to frame it as "the problem" when we have so many.

One of the worst goalkeepers in the league. The slowest selection of centre backs ever assembled. Wingbacks who don't ever score or assist. Just one genuine central midfielder in the squad who is of acceptable physical standard (Ugarte). Underwhelming attackers. Two terrible strikers.

We're pretty awful from back to front, hence the league position.
 
A win on Wednesday should pretty much end the talks of relegation, so we can go all in on Europa.

However without Amad and Martinez I don't think we can win it unfortunately.
 
Spending money on a wing back system is a big risk.

I want to back him to see if he can succeed but its a huge risk if it doesn't pay off

Yes, it is. Especially in our financial situation, and after wasting 600 million in 3 years. We should be very careful with the players we buy.
 
Some kinda weird support group for incredibly impatient fans who have a very naive assessment of the current squad.

That and a wild lack of understanding of how basic the problem actually is.

2 seasons ago Rashford, Martial, Sancho and Antony contributed 33 league goals between them, and since then they have all washed up and gone. Through no fault of Amorim. We failed to replicate their output in 23/24 which meant going from 3rd to relegation form, and deserved to finish about 13th. From 23/24 to this season we lost even more goals in the squad.

The stats show we now only have relegation level forwards. If we'd scored just 10 more goals so far this season we'd be in the top half duking it out with Brighton and Villa. That's only the difference in output between shit on a stick Hojlund and someone just half decent like Mateta or Wissa.
 
The players we have are clearly crap though. Even disregarding Amorim, they need to be replaced. As long as the replacements are of the right physical and age profile they won't become black holes like Mount and Casemiro.
As I said, not once I believe that the current lot are good enough for CL spots. But they are much better than the 16th position they are in currently and that’s down to the manager.

If the manager is so inconsequential to how a team performs then we might as well have kept Eth.
 
4 months is not instant. Haven't we learnt that giving the wrong manager 2-3 years and gazillion of cash does not make them better?

If he cant even steady the ship, get some mood going. I dont have high hopes

There’s a whole lot of middle ground between four months and 2-3 years plus shitloads of cash.

If Ineos thought he was the best man for the job after doing their due diligence then surely he at least deserves a summer transfer window, a pre-season and then a crack at a fresh season?

If there’s still no improvement after that then sure, some decisions might need to be made.
 
The 'the players are crap' argument doesn't hold when you look around at Everton with Doucoure, Beto, Garner, et al basically bossing a game of football against us. These are not great players by any stretch.

Everton were clearly in the ascendency for much of that game.

We have genuine difficulty passing the ball forwards. There was some nice work at times down the left between Bruno and Dorgu, but very little else in terms of progressive play.

For me that boils down to the oft-repeated criticism of the clear imbalance of the backline and midfield. The passing options are stifled due to the extra man at the back.

We've got nothing down the right hand side. We need to roll the dice a bit and pick Garnacho ahead of Dalot, who's consistently one of our worst performers, and was again at fault today for botched clearance.
 
Last edited:
There’s a whole lot of middle ground between four months and 2-3 years plus shitloads of cash.

If Ineos thought he was the best man for the job after doing their due diligence then surely he at least deserves a summer transfer window, a pre-season and then a crack at a fresh season?

If there’s still no improvement after that then sure, some decisions might need to be made.

Off course. But with 3W 3D 9L (havent check) record that's pushing the bottom lowest threshold, all problems aside

I dont expect miracles, but not these free fall into relegation zone
 
As I said, not once I believe that the current lot are good enough for CL spots. But they are much better than the 16th position they are in currently and that’s down to the manager.

If the manager is so inconsequential to how a team performs then we might as well have kept Eth.
The manager has players who know they are not part of his future plans. This is the same as the Ralf situation, where a bunch of these losers downed tools and stopped trying. By sacking ETH mid season and not after the cup final INEOS ensured that this season would be a write off. There is no point getting so worked up about results that don't matter. We're not getting relegated amd we're not getting into Europe through the league. Judge Amorim after he has at least one proper window and a pre season.
 
The 'the players are crap' argument doesn't hold when you look around at Everton with Doucoure, Beto, Garner, et al basically bossing a game of football against us. These are not great players by any stretch.

Everton were clearly in the ascendency for much of that game.

We have genuine difficulty passing the ball forwards. There was some nice work at times down the left between Bruno and Dorgu, but very little else in terms of progressive play.

For me that boils down to the oft-repeated criticism of the clear imbalance of the backline and midfield. The passing options are stifled due to the extra man at the back.

We've got nothing down the right hand side. We need to roll the dice a bit and pick Garnacho ahead of Dalot, who's consistently one of our worst performers, and was again at fault today for botched clearance.
It does hold when you consider motivation and how bought in the players are to what the manager wants. The Everton players know Moyes has the power at their club, whereas our spoiled losers know all it takes is them downing tools for a bit for the media and some fans to turn on the coach and forget that they are the ones not running and fecking up simple passes and shots.
 
As I said, not once I believe that the current lot are good enough for CL spots. But they are much better than the 16th position they are in currently and that’s down to the manager.

If the manager is so inconsequential to how a team performs then we might as well have kept Eth.
Its down to ETH and Amorin. This squad is an absolute abomination for what Ten Hag threw at in on personnel. Barely a good payer signed.