Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Wing Attack Plan R]

I don't know but I have three hypothesis. The first is that he isn't good enough at this point of his career. The second hypothesis is that not all managers have the tools or mentality to take a struggling team midseason and make the appropriate adjustments on the fly and teach their principles(cultural, tactical and technical) without a full preseason. The third hypothesis would be that he isn't a midtable managers, I believe that most managers fit different contexts, levels and tiers within a league, while SCP weren't winning much, they were a top portuguese club with far better players than clubs not named Porto or Benfica, he showed the ability to take a good team to a great level but it doesn't mean that he has the ability to take a genuine midtable team to good or even elite level, as an example think about the likes of Moyes, Redknapp, Marcelino or even Emery these managers have shown the ability to take midtable teams to a good level but they all hit a wall when it was time to take the following jump.

All three.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Can't wait for people to tell us after the game how Everton have a better squad than us

Will the Amorim revolution be televised? He sets us up comically in the first half, we are utterly abject, then makes changes in the 2nd half to rectify his own feck ups -- and people think that shows good management. Making Everton look like ballers, we truly live in exciting times. It wouldn't bother me if the sacked Amorim tonight, or if he walked. Even when we do magically get the players he needs, it's going to be slow, ponderous football. We are not going to dominate the PL the way his Sporting team did unless we suddenly get best-in-class players for every position.

It's not happening.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

I’ll maintain unless something utterly disastrous happens give him until around Jan next year to prove himself, that said the way things are going he’s going to need every bit of that time. We are not getting a squad overhaul and unless Ineos pull a rabbit out of the hat what will he get in the summer? Probably one big signing and maybe two younger Dorgu type signings. It might improve us but won’t be enough for top 6 in my opinion. He’s absolutely adamant he will not change and I fear that will be his downfall because even with the perfect eleven for his system some tactical flexibility is a must because plan A won’t work all the time, not in this league anyway.

As for the whole narrative around this season being a ‘write off’ and ‘free pass’, maybe as far as the league goes but there’s still a lot to play for. He needs to show his higher ups that he can be trusted with whatever summer budget there is because word has it we absolutely cannot afford to waste money anymore on players that suit a manger that might not be here very long.

We also absolutely should be putting all our eggs into the Europa League basket, spamming our way into the CL would be huge for us in this current financial situation. I like the guy but at the end of the day talk is cheap, he needs to start showing a semblance of a functional football team or it’s another bites the dust.

 

[AndyMUFC]

I think this squad as a collective is completely ill equipped for the demands of Premier League football and he's been handed a shitshow, but it's going to be really difficult for him to turn this around.

 

[hellhunter]

With the Amorim revolution be televised? He sets us up comically in the first half, we are utterly abject, then makes changes in the 2nd half to rectify his own feck ups -- and people think that shows good management. Making Everton look like ballers, we truly live in exciting times. It wouldn't bother me if the sacked Amorim tonight, or if he walked. Even when we do magically get the players he needs, it's going to be slow, ponderous football. We are not going to dominate the PL the way his Sporting team did unless we suddenly get best-in-class players for every position.

It's not happening.

It does my head in how he's clearly capable of adapting ingame and making point winning adjustments but seems utterly incapable of doing those changes before matches

 

[hobbers]

Can you post any thread before this season that said we have a relegation level squad? How is the drop off this season vs last explainable by the squad.

I have enough memory that the consensus on here was that we actually had a good transfer window under Ineos. De Ligt and Mazroui from Bayern, who looked an upgrade on AWB. A specialist DM with legs in Ugarte. Zirkzee replacing Martial who never played. The only miss has been McTominay's goals.

There is barely a drop off from last season. As has been pointed out 100 times in this thread, we deserved to finish about 14th last season. We were 14th on expected points and expected goals f+a. We would have finished 12th without McTominays last minute goals. And then what did we do this summer? Removed McTominay's goals.

Our attackers are performing to relegation standard and have done for the last 18 months. That is why we are where we are.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

We are in such unbelievably messy situation. We have a squad that cannot adapt to a managers system. We don't have enough money to properly update the squad. This season has been torched to the ground, highly likely we nuke next season too - and could still end up sacking the manager, only for his successor to have to come in and implement a new system with a newly ill suited squad. If you didn't laugh...

 

[Keanes Magic Hat]

He will be gone in the summer. He hasn't shown anything that says he is a top manager and we should trust him.

Even his press conferences are bad, I can't see how it helps the team saying in public that this is the worst Man Utd ever, and that Moyes is a better manager than he is. He can be frank and honest when he is talking to his players in private. But his main job is to help the team perform better, and part of that is good psychology, I don't believe that his way is helpful at all ... look at this forum, many people believe that ALL our players are trash and should be replaced, how is this going to help them perform better?

It would be a mistake to spend money in the summer for this 3-4-3 system. I don't think the next manager will be playing 3-4-3, and again we'll need a new squad.

Spending money on a wing back system is a big risk.

I want to back him to see if he can succeed but its a huge risk if it doesn't pay off

 

[Irwin99]

If you look at Leicester in the Cup and now today. We have had sections of games where we've been able to pin the opposition back and dominate them in their own half. So clearly at points in some games we're able to get the tactics and formation working. Dorgu is definetly a positive today, im holding those positives tight for now as there are small glimmers of a heartbeat. We need more athletic players like Yoro and Dorgu in the team and less slow tanks like Casemiro and Maguire.

I agree with that and it's obvious we're lacking in terms of pace and physicality. What I would like to see, if the likes of Hojlund or Zirkzee continue to disappoint, is some flexibility, not necessarily to the system but maybe the players. Try a false 9 or something, put Garnacho at wingback, try something to get the attack working better. He tried Mainoo as a number 10 and it had mixed results but it was something. Try to have at least two quick (ish) centre backs and just one of Maguire or De Ligt. I keep hoping he'll stumble on something that works for entire games.

 

[Garnacho Libre]

Once United scored today I think tactics went out the window for both teams.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

With the Amorim revolution be televised? He sets us up comically in the first half, we are utterly abject, then makes changes in the 2nd half to rectify his own feck ups -- and people think that shows good management. Making Everton look like ballers, we truly live in exciting times. It wouldn't bother me if the sacked Amorim tonight, or if he walked. Even when we do magically get the players he needs, it's going to be slow, ponderous football. We are not going to dominate the PL the way his Sporting team did unless we suddenly get best-in-class players for every position.

It's not happening.

You really need to google Everton’s last five PL fixtures….

 

[Garethw]

Once United scored today I think tactics went out the window for both teams.

I agree. I think the players just did their own thing.

 

[joedirt87]

How do you....play the worst hand possible well enough for your standards?

Beating Arsenal a man down. Liverpool. City. Thru in Europa. Several corrections after horrible first halfs.

All while a player like Rashford decided to throw his hands up and leave mid season.

He's doing better than I would expect of most managers with THIS hand.

None of those big games matter in the grand scheme of things if you are Drawing to Ipswich, losing to Wolves, getting completely outplayed off the pitch by Newcastle, Brighton, Crystal Palace. Has winning those big games a couple times a season saved any manager post Fergie? Nope.

 

[rooney2009]

The squad is so thin in the forward areas and I still can’t believe we let Rashford and Anthony go without replacing them
Such bad management from the management team.
I saw Villa’s team today and they had 4 forwards on the bench and we have only 1 in Garnacho.
It so poor from us, we could easily have got someone like Asensio in.

 

[Red in STL]

Ole's squad is gone. Who's left honestly from the starting eleven aside from Maguire? That's why "these players" arguments can become quite tedious.

Bruno, Dalot, Lindelof, Shaw

 

[Red in STL]

Not disagreeing with you there but was Onana a £ 43 million improvement over De Gea or would we have done better keeping DDG and spending that money elsewhere?

Nope he wasn't, GK wasn't and still isn't our most pressing need

 

[stepic]

I know some people can't look past a few weeks months form when rating players but you can't seriously believe that the majority of our squad isn't good enough to start for Fulham or Bournemouth. Rashford went to Villa and he's starting, Antony went to a top 6-8 team in Spain and he's starting, Chelsea wanted Garnacho. Mainoo, Urgarte, Deligt, Mazraoui, Yoro, Martinez, Bruno, Amad etc would all move to good sides if we sold them this summer.

Do you think we sign players that have played for Bayern, Inter, PSG, Ajax, Chelsea, Juventus, Real Madrid etc and they become only good enough for relelgation battlers over night?

i was replying specifically to your point about players bought by ETH, that every one was good enough for a top 5-10 club. Hojlund wouldn't start for many teams in the bottom half, let alone top 5-10. Same goes for Casemiro.

when big clubs sell players there's usually a good reason - Madrid sold us Casemiro because they knew he was on his last legs. Italian clubs sold us Hojlund and Zirkzee but they were hardly prolific in Italy let alone the PL. they were just bad buys. we've had a lot of those in the last 10 years.

 

[Superunknown]

Nope he wasn't, GK wasn't and still isn't our most pressing need

Unfortunately, I think it's becoming more of a need. The more I see of Onana, the more his flaws become apparent. He doesn't command his area and doesn't seem to inspire confidence in the defenders in front of him. He doesn't look like he's a good organiser at the back. His kicking is very erratic and he can often play us into trouble. When he receives the ball, he often boots it long, therefore giving possession back to the other side. When he plays it short, he sometimes chooses a poor option, thus putting us under pressure very close to our goal. This is all before we talk about his handling, which is very, very temperamental. He parries too many shots back into the danger areas instead of away. He isn't a particularly good claimer of crosses when they come into the box and often stays put, when sometimes he should be relieving pressure on our defence.

I can't say that he's been a truly good signing. As time goes on, I become less convinced of him. He has too many mistakes in him and what we can't afford to have is another player who makes basic errors. We have too many issues with players who can't complete simple passes to their teammates. Onana isn't the type of player who does the simple stuff well. He makes the simple stuff look really hard. If he were playing for any other side in the Premier League, we would all be laughing and saying that he is dodgy or makes a mistake every week.

 

[Red in STL]

Unfortunately, I think it's becoming more of a need. The more I see of Onana, the more his flaws become apparent. He doesn't command his area and doesn't seem to inspire confidence in the defenders in front of him. He doesn't look like he's a good organiser at the back. His kicking is very erratic and he can often play us into trouble. When he receives the ball, he often boots it long, therefore giving possession back to the other side. When he plays it short, he sometimes chooses a poor option, thus putting us under pressure very close to our goal. This is all before we talk about his handling, which is very, very temperamental. He parries too many shots back into the danger areas instead of away. He isn't a particularly good claimer of crosses when they come into the box and often stays put, when sometimes he should be relieving pressure on our defence.

I can't say that he's been a truly good signing. As time goes on, I become less convinced of him. He has too many mistakes in him and what we can't afford to have is another player who makes basic errors. We have too many issues with players who can't complete simple passes to their teammates. Onana isn't the type of player who does the simple stuff well. He makes the simple stuff look really hard. If he were playing for any other side in the Premier League, we would all be laughing and saying that he is dodgy or makes a mistake every week.

Not suggesting it isn't a need or he's any good, but we could have the best GK in the workd and it wouldn't matter because we can't score enough goals, a striker who can score is our most pressing need

 

[distant_red]

He looked like he had just woken up after a huge bender when appearing for the post match presser.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

We are in such unbelievably messy situation. We have a squad that cannot adapt to a managers system. We don't have enough money to properly update the squad. This season has been torched to the ground, highly likely we nuke next season too - and could still end up sacking the manager, only for his successor to have to come in and implement a new system with a newly ill suited squad. If you didn't laugh...

It really is not the system, at least not just the system. The first half today had a clear and obvious lack of effort, lack of belief, lack of energy, whatever you want to call it.

Other than Ugarte, every one of our players was second to every ball. Even when they seemed favourites to get there first.

I almost don’t care who the manager is long term, I just want two or three Roy Keanes type characters in the squad to get the team going.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

We are in such unbelievably messy situation. We have a squad that cannot adapt to a managers system. We don't have enough money to properly update the squad. This season has been torched to the ground, highly likely we nuke next season too - and could still end up sacking the manager, only for his successor to have to come in and implement a new system with a newly ill suited squad. If you didn't laugh...

Feels like a bit like an NFL team who know they have to tread water for a couple of years and wait till they get some cap,space and a high draft pick or two.

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

It really is not the system, at least not just the system. The first half today had a clear and obvious lack of effort, lack of belief, lack of energy, whatever you want to call it.

Other than Ugarte, every one of our players was second to every ball. Even when they seemed favourites to get there first.

I almost don’t care who the manager is long term, I just want two or three Roy Keanes in the squad to get the team going.

Lack of effort is the thing that winds me up the most and has done through the countless managers we’ve had lost fergie. I’d love for someone to explain the phenomenon to me.

We only ever muster up 15 mins max of acceptable effort and football and it’s usually saved for when we fall behind. It’s not about who manages us or what our system is. It’s something deeper.

 

[Silverman]

The squad is so thin in the forward areas and I still can’t believe we let Rashford and Anthony go without replacing them
Such bad management from the management team.
I saw Villa’s team today and they had 4 forwards on the bench and we have only 1 in Garnacho.
It so poor from us, we could easily have got someone like Asensio in.

I get your point but I think the club knew they needed to get those two into a new club to hopefully showcase what they can do in order to get them sold in the summer.
If they continued to stink up the place with us until the end of the season, the best we would have been able to hope for is loans. Antony showing that he works well in La Liga for example so hopefully will have suitors in the summer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Rashford went to Villa and he's starting,

He started one game for them. Their last game. And was immediately relegated to the bench for the next one.

 

[bosnian_red]

It really is not the system, at least not just the system. The first half today had a clear and obvious lack of effort, lack of belief, lack of energy, whatever you want to call it.

Other than Ugarte, every one of our players was second to every ball. Even when they seemed favourites to get there first.

I almost don’t care who the manager is long term, I just want two or three Roy Keanes type characters in the squad to get the team going.

Put Scholes and Keane in the midfield for this team and it'd still be pretty shit to be honest. Would of course be better but our midfield pairing is far from the problem currently anyway. Without a goalscorer and better decision making in attack, we will never get anywhere.

 

[EvilChuck]

I just dont understand why we start everything from such a deep position. Every time we have a goal kick the CBs are receiving the ball pretty much in line with the 6 yard box, none of them are able to progress with the ball so the CMs and WBs come deep to give the option but that just invites the high press.

We then lack composure in possession, and rush the passing and lose the ball about 35 yards away from our goal. I cannot remember the last time i saw one of our midfielders turn away from pressure and keep the ball. Just being able to do that would mean opposition cant press high for fear of leaving space behind. As it is we never have the ball in a position where we can ever attempt to get the striker in behind

 

[Paddymcc]

Ruben needs to realise that it's a team that wins a football game. It's not a formation.

 

[TwoSheds]

Put Scholes and Keane in the midfield for this team and it'd still be pretty shit to be honest. Would of course be better but our midfield pairing is far from the problem currently anyway. Without a goalscorer and better decision making in attack, we will never get anywhere.

Scholes would play up front

 

[Sarni]

I like him as a man, and had high hopes for him but he’s quite clearly going to be a massive risk. We probably need 5-6 new players to even have a shot at making this formation work and have seen zero evidence that he can actually make it work in this league or any top league for that matter. It’s not like investing millions to build a squad for a proven manager, there’s no indication that he has the tools to be successful here and multiple signs that he’s lacking.

 

[Redstain]

Put Scholes and Keane in the midfield for this team and it'd still be pretty shit to be honest. Would of course be better but our midfield pairing is far from the problem currently anyway. Without a goalscorer and better decision making in attack, we will never get anywhere.

I agree Amorim's iteration of this system is perplexing, the spaces between the different regions of the pitch is far too significant.

It's a stark contrast to Alonso who has Leverkusen very compressed in possession. The wingbacks at times match the midfield pivot in spaces, so it's not an isolated midfield two but can range between three or four in the build up. This is excluding the rotations of the forward players dropping off to also provide an option.

All in all this approach allows Leverkusen to overload the opposition team not just through the width but in narrower positions on the pitch.

Whereas Amorims interpretation has every player multiple yards away from one another. From the little I watched of Sporing in the champions league, the current build up sequence with United is not unfamiliar to what he produced in Portugal the biggest difference is that his defensive line was significantly higher.

If the team do play further up the pitch it might help reduce the spaces which is why in the second half against Everton when Yoro and co was far further forward Everton couldn't cope. So the solution for Amorim to enable the team to perform better is to be more attacking.

It's evidenced on how the team has actually performed in contrast to his more restrictive measures. It's these small details that if Ruben gets right he'll have my confidence but until he does it more consistently he doesn't have a future at United.

 

[rooney2009]

I still don’t understand why we are so obsessed with new players.
None of the Everton players will get into Man Utd team so there is something obviously wrong here..
It’s not lack of effort because to make it at this level you have to have something.
The players should at least be fighting for Europe and are not as bad as currently showing,so it must be weak mentality and a lack of confidence.
We need to stop this possession rubbish and passing at the back and sideways.
We need to attack teams, be positive and go for games quicker.
Amorim reminds me of LVG a bit as they both seemed obsessed with possession football .

 

[NK86]

The table doesn't lie, the players have given up to the point they only perform when their integrity is questioned.

No manager has ever been absolved of blame, but it is so obvious that the players are not performing how they should be performing.

The standard has dropped to an all time low, there's no doubting that but when you see the manner in which we conceded the two goals today, you can see why.

The manager bounce is superficial and never lasts long term. I'd rather have a rut now and find the form next season, providing it lasts.

What form are you suddenly expecting to find next season? Is there some magic potion we can only brew during the summer that will make this lot suddenly better? If they aren’t able to execute what the manager is saying, then it’s a case of the manager struggling to get his ideas across. When the team rots as a whole, it’s the head where we need to inspect.

This idea that the players have given up as a whole is just a fantasy people cling on to to justify how miserable we are tactically as it allows for the blind hope that a summer window will fix us magically. It won’t like it has not for the last 13 years. If the manager cannot get a tune out of 90% players in the squad, then he is not the right man for the job. Not amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

Put Scholes and Keane in the midfield for this team and it'd still be pretty shit to be honest. Would of course be better but our midfield pairing is far from the problem currently anyway. Without a goalscorer and better decision making in attack, we will never get anywhere.

I am not talking about player quality. Need someone on the pitch leading from the front. Waking this lot up. Everton don’t have better players. They were beating us to every ball in the first half.

 

[Zumbi]

I think so too, but unfortunately I think the minority ownership situation is going to hamstring us because any incremental investment from INEOS will rely on the Glazers also investing or agreeing to a dilution.

The only thing that gives me hope is the prospect of recouping some significant money and saving high wages from the Rashford, Sancho, Anthony situations, plus any other outgoings we might be able to get some money for.

I don’t think we’ll get significant investment in terms of actual outlay, but I think our transfer policy is going to be dramatically different than it has been which will still allow for new blood to come in. We’ll look to rebuild the squad with cheaper, lower profile signings on lower wages like Mazraoui and Dorgu. That should allow us to bring in 4-6 players, pending sales. With very smart scouting that could work and put us in a better place, but it’s hard to predict given how much this squad needs.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I like him as a man, and had high hopes for him but he’s quite clearly going to be a massive risk. We probably need 5-6 new players to even have a shot at making this formation work and have seen zero evidence that he can actually make it work in this league or any top league for that matter. It’s not like investing millions to build a squad for a proven manager, there’s no indication that he has the tools to be successful here and multiple signs that he’s lacking.

Yup, my main issues with Amorim is that he plays an unfamiliar system used by no top 8 club in the world and that he has only experience from a minor league. And then there is the lack of progress since he arrived, but maybe that is to be expected under the circumstances.

 

[r0663664]

Amorim needs to decide on his 1st XI, maybe he needs to drop De Ligt or Maguire as you can't play both. Yoro needs to start playing with Mazroaui on the left. In midfield, Bruno and Ugarte so there is more creativity. I rather having Bruno orchestrating attack then to have Casemiro doing nothing but still losing balls. Let Garnacho and Zirkzee play as AM. Dorgu and Dalot as WB (there is no choice since Amad is out, Dalot suck big time). Striker????? Useless Hoijund, who else? Obi can't lead the attack. Let's go for win for the first min.

 

[pascell]

What form are you suddenly expecting to find next season? Is there some magic potion we can only brew during the summer that will make this lot suddenly better? If they aren’t able to execute what the manager is saying, then it’s a case of the manager struggling to get his ideas across. When the team rots as a whole, it’s the head where we need to inspect.

This idea that the players have given up as a whole is just a fantasy people cling on to to justify how miserable we are tactically as it allows for the blind hope that a summer window will fix us magically. It won’t like it has not for the last 13 years. If the manager cannot get a tune out of 90% players in the squad, then he is not the right man for the job. Not amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

We will obviously change personnel in the playing squad with players who have grit and determination.

These very same players have got one manager sacked, who played a completely different formation. So please enlighten me as you're the beacon of knowledge, which formation would have us wiping teams out?

You need to realise that there are certain characteristics managers prefer to different managers, if they didn't, football would be a very boring sport.

 

[Posh Red]

What form are you suddenly expecting to find next season? Is there some magic potion we can only brew during the summer that will make this lot suddenly better? If they aren’t able to execute what the manager is saying, then it’s a case of the manager struggling to get his ideas across. When the team rots as a whole, it’s the head where we need to inspect.

This idea that the players have given up as a whole is just a fantasy people cling on to to justify how miserable we are tactically as it allows for the blind hope that a summer window will fix us magically. It won’t like it has not for the last 13 years. If the manager cannot get a tune out of 90% players in the squad, then he is not the right man for the job. Not amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

Basically every successful manager in recent years in the league has turned over a huge proportion of their playing squad.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I still don’t understand why we are so obsessed with new players.
None of the Everton players will get into Man Utd team so there is something obviously wrong here..
It’s not lack of effort because to make it at this level you have to have something.
The players should at least be fighting for Europe and are not as bad as currently showing,so it must be weak mentality and a lack of confidence.
We need to stop this possession rubbish and passing at the back and sideways.
We need to attack teams, be positive and go for games quicker.
Amorim reminds me of LVG a bit as they both seemed obsessed with possession football .

Zirkzee, Höjlund, Casemiro wouldn't start for Everton. Tarkowski and Branthwaith are no worse than our CBs.