Keep thinking back to when he first arrived saying this was his place and he belongs here and seemed very assured. A month or two in he was looking ill, someone with cold sweats, the pressure and fear creeping in. Think the players are showing the strains as well for a while, it was looking quite good in those first 4 weeks, lots of positivity and thumbs up to each other on good moves that didn't work out in a goal to try again. Whatever good Amorim had seems to have unraveled and he's found it very hard to find a good starting selection.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
How many of our players are showing their worth?
Ole comes back and then what? The Treble?Dude is earning his stripes. He’s taking all the blame and all the heat for our malaise but this has been a decade in the making. With injuries, departures and just pure incompetence, he is managing arguably the worst United squad in 30 years. Especially when you look at depth, experience and form. If he makes it through this, then he's our guy.
Keeping Ten Hag after the time and money he’d been given and the clear lack of a plan and lotta y of excuses was a bad decision. One I advocated heavily against. Keeping Amorim, with what he’s inherited, the situation he’s in, the obvious and clear plan (which isn’t yet working), and his willingness to take full accountability is not just the sensible choice, it’s the brave one. Manager’s make easy scapegoats. But sacking him will fix nothing. It’s just another reset.
This pain has a purpose. It’s not yet yielding fruit but I believe in all probability it will. I don’t have empirical evidence to back that up, just like no one has empirical evidence that sacking him will lead to a better outcome short or long term. Sometimes you have to look at things logically and dispassionately, and then in the absence of insufficient evidence to make a completely informed decision, go with your best judgement. Sometimes called a gut feeling. Mine tells me that we need to give him this season and next, with the proviso that while results this season are not the most important thing, there has to be tangible progress; and from next season, there has to be a marked improvement in outcomes. No one is immune to the sack, because the clubs welfare and survival is on the line, but to be talking about it now is excessively premature and would be another self inflicted wound.
Keeping Ten Hag after the time and money he’d been given and the clear lack of a plan and lotta y of excuses was a bad decision. One I advocated heavily against. Keeping Amorim, with what he’s inherited, the situation he’s in, the obvious and clear plan (which isn’t yet working), and his willingness to take full accountability is not just the sensible choice, it’s the brave one. Manager’s make easy scapegoats. But sacking him will fix nothing. It’s just another reset.
This pain has a purpose. It’s not yet yielding fruit but I believe in all probability it will. I don’t have empirical evidence to back that up, just like no one has empirical evidence that sacking him will lead to a better outcome short or long term. Sometimes you have to look at things logically and dispassionately, and then in the absence of insufficient evidence to make a completely informed decision, go with your best judgement. Sometimes called a gut feeling. Mine tells me that we need to give him this season and next, with the proviso that while results this season are not the most important thing, there has to be tangible progress; and from next season, there has to be a marked improvement in outcomes. No one is immune to the sack, because the clubs welfare and survival is on the line, but to be talking about it now is excessively premature and would be another self inflicted wound.
Yes the culture is set by the manager and we have now gone through a few and it doesn’t seem to improve significantly. This leads to wondering why.
Have we had a succession of dud managers who can’t set the right culture or did / do we have a squad with poor mentality and weak will ?
It could be a case of bad habits and attitudes setting over a number of years and it now being hard to change the mindset. What ever it is there is something fundamentally wrong as we can’t match the level of effort and desire of many teams in the PL.
Nice little stat:
Manchester United have created 49 big chances in the PL this season.
They managed to score 6 of them.
Shocking.
Manchester United have created 49 big chances in the PL this season.
They managed to score 6 of them.
Shocking.
Agreed. I think people have been unfair to judge him at this stage.
Great post, my thoughts exactly…
9/15 fecking hell
Looks like we might get £20m-30m for Greenwood too as he is likely to sell and we have a sell on clause
3 months doesn't mean a thing when you barely have 11 players and half of them shouldn't be 1st team starters, doesn't matter who is in charge at this point we are barely putting a team together
I'm fascinated by how many on here think Amorim will be allowed to keep losing games at the current rate, while playing so poorly, and not face repercussions. There are growing pains and then there's this, and you are all lying if you say you ever thought it was going to be this bad.
Look at where our managers have gone after leaving the club none of them went anywhere near elite level club Football and none of them were at that level when we signed them. Also outside of Amorim they all had the means and opportunity to build expensive squads to their image and we know the results. An other thing to keep in mind is that 5 managers(I give a pass to Amorim) in a bit more than 11 years isn't much, it sounds much for us because we had the luxury of having SAF for so long but it's the norm for a number of successful clubs like Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter, Chelsea and others.
If all the fanbase understood this there would be less negativity which doesn't help anyone.
If someone like Gary Neville said this rather than his doom and gloom bollox the fan base would be less rattled.
The answer is in our face , we choose to ignore it.
Completely agree.
Although it's not swashbuckling or tiki taka or whatever that floats some people's boat,,, we have been creating chances. If we had taken a few of them the narrative is completely different for such a major cultural reset
Just one more to say that this is exactly it. 100%.
With our problems in attack, we should probably buy Greenwood back (I know it's not going to happen).
We won't get relegated. So he's not going to be sacked. Even if we lose the next 10 games and escape relegation by the skin of our teeth. It'll be embarassing but not the end of the world.
However, your post just seems to be saying "I like the guy, he makes me feel optimistic about the future of the club". Fair enough. He comes across excellently in his interactions with the press.
But this gut feeling seems to have little to do with what's actually been produced on the pitch. His plans for most games and especially the starting line-ups have been woeful. Not having signed a bunch of his own players is no excuse. If he can fix the predictably shit selections midway through the game as he often seems to do, he should also be able to prepare them better.
We looked very very bad with a full squad too
Come on now, it might not have all been on Ole, but he had a better squad than we have now. Our attack at least was full of goalscorers. He wasn’t good enough to get us where we wanted to be and if that’s the case with Amorim too, then we give somebody else a try.
Never really looked at the managers like that , you make a good point. We were definitely incredibly fortunate to have SAF and even more so for the amount of time he spent dedicated to us.
Your are right about other teams cycling managers regularly. I also thought we were going through managers quickly but as you have pointed out , it’s no worse than other teams.
I really like Amorim and what him to succeed even though it’s not looking promising at the moment given performances and results.
What do you believe to be the main issues of why results and performances are so bad at the moment ?
This. This also applies to every manager since Fergie, except Amorim. Every other manager had a proven goalscorer at least. Amorim has two novices who are stopping us from scoring due to this. If we had a Zlatan or Cavani even Ighalo as they were when they played here, then there is no way we would be bottom half of the table.
Also during Ole time we didn't lose a Away game throughout the season.
Winning 12 games of 19.
You don't bring him back after the way it ended. The club were at the pinnacle of their Moments FC period during his tenure.
Yeah we're 11th on big chances created which is pretty much exactly where this squad should be.
I don't know but I have three hypothesis. The first is that he isn't good enough at this point of his career. The second hypothesis is that not all managers have the tools or mentality to take a struggling team midseason and make the appropriate adjustments on the fly and teach their principles(cultural, tactical and technical) without a full preseason. The third hypothesis would be that he isn't a midtable managers, I believe that most managers fit different contexts, levels and tiers within a league, while SCP weren't winning much, they were a top portuguese club with far better players than clubs not named Porto or Benfica, he showed the ability to take a good team to a great level but it doesn't mean that he has the ability to take a genuine midtable team to good or even elite level, as an example think about the likes of Moyes, Redknapp, Marcelino or even Emery these managers have shown the ability to take midtable teams to a good level but they all hit a wall when it was time to take the following jump.
His "honest sarcasm" gimmick is getting old now. Constantly saying the squad is shite or "David Moyes is a better manager than me" is quite irritating.
He accepted the job, it's his duty to get on with it. Stop moaning and try to maximize the resources at your disposal.
He accepted the job, it's his duty to get on with it. Stop moaning and try to maximize the resources at your disposal.
When did we have a full squad? Of halfway decent players that is? You cannot really count Eriksen, Case, Lindelof, Mount or Shaw.... You could argue that Antony and Malacia were options but they were hardly adding anything of value.
The only issue Amorim has caused is Rashford, now whilst I think we really could have used him and would probably have a few more goals and points if he had played, near enough the whole CAF has been begging to ditch him for the last 18 months because of his attitude Amorim has just done what everyone was saying should be done.
I just hope he can bring in a youth player or three.
He’s not getting sacked there would be riots
It’s the best part of his tenure to be fair. But it was In empty grounds , when they did fill up we went to shit again. Ole is not returning to this club
Yes it was a great run and yet you still had the likes of Neville say it’s not like playing away as there was no crowds, more like training matches. If it was then why couldn’t other teams do it?
Iraola is doing well now but people forget he was under the cosh at first and it took him 10 games to get a win at Bournemouth.
Needs a result today, no excuse their forwards are as bad as ours
Beto has 4 goals in 5 games since Moyes returned. I’d kill for form like that from one of our forwards.
He's done a really poor job. Granted, he's not had a lot to work with but he's been just as bad as the players. He really needs to start picking up results in the league as it'll be some miracle if we somehow manage to win one of the cups.
With all that been brought up there he really does have it all against him. Mid season , bigger club with more pressure , lower league placing and a lot more completion in each game.
To be fair, he says the right things so I am very hopeful he can handle this situation. I really hope he gets the preseason and summer window (although not expecting windows like previously, it will be a lot more low key) to get time with the team and I still his methods and vision.
It would be really nice to see some positive performances before the season ends to give the mood a lift heading in to next season.
I'd say Fergie was innovative with his tactics. So much so, he was usually ahead of the curve in the Premier League.
People have been saying the right things fir years. Doing the right things is where we have the problem.
Crazy that was only four years ago and people were moaning about it at the time so bad. It was right to want better but what the hell is this mess we’re in right now. It’s unbelievable.
Why would there be "riots"? Not like he's done anything of note. Sure, the squad is bad, but it's been the same as Ten Hag - zero identity apart from the general 3 atb/5 atb shape.
I am betting that though Ineos are backing him, he will be sacked if he doesn't win one of the cups on offer. Because, even his staunchest backers will be weak-kneed at the prospect of spending 200M in the summer for a coach who finished 15th and trophyless - and who made zero improvements tactically to the squad. Ineos are already penny pinching, no way would they take that risk.
If he doesn't win a cup, best let him go and get Inzaghi who will be available in the summer - unlike all our managers since 2013, Inzaghi is in his prime, is proven at the highest level and can be trusted for a rebuild as Italian managers are generally successful in the prem.