Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

JPRouve said:
I don't know but I have three hypothesis. The first is that he isn't good enough at this point of his career. The second hypothesis is that not all managers have the tools or mentality to take a struggling team midseason and make the appropriate adjustments on the fly and teach their principles(cultural, tactical and technical) without a full preseason. The third hypothesis would be that he isn't a midtable managers, I believe that most managers fit different contexts, levels and tiers within a league, while SCP weren't winning much, they were a top portuguese club with far better players than clubs not named Porto or Benfica, he showed the ability to take a good team to a great level but it doesn't mean that he has the ability to take a genuine midtable team to good or even elite level, as an example think about the likes of Moyes, Redknapp, Marcelino or even Emery these managers have shown the ability to take midtable teams to a good level but they all hit a wall when it was time to take the following jump.
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They are all good, but I have a fourth. Man Utd have played with a low block or transition football for close to a decade. Most emphasis have been put on the off ball part. Man Utd was, in a way, built for it.

Dominating through heavy possession is more difficult. You need better players to do it. And it takes more, maybe even better, coaching to do it. Amorim tried starting the transition mid-season. Not only are not Man Utd coached or drilled for it. The players are less suited for it.

When playing transition football Man Utd was close to a top six team. Maybe even a top six team. It is not that big of a surprise that Man Utd is a worse team playing a different style that they are less used to and probably less suited for.

Another coach, like Tuchel or Iraola, would continue playing transition football, but maybe make an adjustment or two where they thought EtH were wrong. That could have given the team a big improvement right away.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Crazy that was only four years ago and people were moaning about it at the time so bad. It was right to want better but what the hell is this mess we’re in right now. It’s unbelievable.
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The decline in not just performances and results, but most alarmingly the quality of the squad despite all the money spent, in those four years is staggering. I simply cannot fathom how we’ve ended up with a squad this bad. It is genuinely impressive to spend so much money making a squad that much worse.
 
Jev said:
The decline in not just performances and results, but most alarmingly the quality of the squad despite all the money spent, in those four years is staggering. I simply cannot fathom how we’ve ended up with a squad this bad.
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Ten hag was a disaster on signings. We had a really promising looking squad with Ole then everything just collapsed.

Anorim has done terribly so far but I have faith it will come good. Maybe it's just being delusional
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
Ten hag was a disaster on signings. We had a really promising looking squad with Ole then everything just collapsed.

Anorim has done terribly so far but I have faith it will come good. Maybe it's just being delusional
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That’s all we have at the moment.
 
We've three attacking player on the pitch...three.

Rest are defenders or CM.
I expected a modern coach with a loth of ideas to make us more exciting to watch.

What a dissapointment he has been so far.
 
andersj said:
They are all good, but I have a fourth. Man Utd have played with a low block or transition football for close to a decade. Most emphasis have been put on the off ball part. Man Utd was, in a way, built for it.

Dominating through heavy possession is more difficult. You need better players to do it. And it takes more, maybe even better, coaching to do it. Amorim tried starting the transition mid-season. Not only are not Man Utd coached or drilled for it. The players are less suited for it.

When playing transition football Man Utd was close to a top six team. Maybe even a top six team. It is not that big of a surprise that Man Utd is a worse team playing a different style that they are less used to and probably less suited for.

Another coach, like Tuchel or Iraola, would continue playing transition football, but maybe make an adjustment or two where they thought EtH were wrong. That could have given the team a big improvement right away.
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That would be the second hypothesis?
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
I'd say Fergie was innovative with his tactics. So much so, he was usually ahead of the curve in the Premier League.

People have been saying the right things for years. Doing the right things is where we have the problem.
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I think I agree with what he is saying more than previous managers though. We do need to start seeing improvements in performance and situation soon as at the moment it looks like not a great deal has changed.
 
JPRouve said:
Look at where our managers have gone after leaving the club none of them went anywhere near elite level club Football and none of them were at that level when we signed them. Also outside of Amorim they all had the means and opportunity to build expensive squads to their image and we know the results. An other thing to keep in mind is that 5 managers(I give a pass to Amorim) in a bit more than 11 years isn't much, it sounds much for us because we had the luxury of having SAF for so long but it's the norm for a number of successful clubs like Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter, Chelsea and others.
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Agree with this, the criteria for every manager bar perhaps Mourinho has been low. Jose was the biggest name and achieved the biggest accolades with a domestic cup and the Europa league. I don't think that's coincidence but it wasn't the Jose of old given his trajectory since leaving.

I still think given the size and pressure with United that the club requires a world class manager. Varane's interview is very explanatory in understanding the expectations at the club. Fans can peddle a ridiculous narrative such "writing off the season" but the badge weighs heavy given the history of the club it won't be tolerated.

These big fish in small pond managers such as Erik (Ajax) / Amorim (Sporting) are risks because they are still of unproven quality. I'll give Amorim some leeway because the circumstances of his employment has been poor but I reckon he'll be sacked any period within 12 months time.
 
I think today will be a good performance. We have two midfielders who are most comfortable as a base 2, two 10s in a natural role and wingbacks on their natural side.
 
Just hearing his interview with Rio on TNT. It ended with..

"I try, but sometimes your best is not enough."

It sounds like he doesn't have full belief in himself or the club to turn this around. I like the guy, but this was this first time I've felt worried by what he is saying.
 
Grave Robber said:
Why would there be "riots"? Not like he's done anything of note. Sure, the squad is bad, but it's been the same as Ten Hag - zero identity apart from the general 3 atb/5 atb shape.

I am betting that though Ineos are backing him, he will be sacked if he doesn't win one of the cups on offer. Because, even his staunchest backers will be weak-kneed at the prospect of spending 200M in the summer for a coach who finished 15th and trophyless - and who made zero improvements tactically to the squad. Ineos are already penny pinching, no way would they take that risk.

If he doesn't win a cup, best let him go and get Inzaghi who will be available in the summer - unlike all our managers since 2013, Inzaghi is in his prime, is proven at the highest level and can be trusted for a rebuild as Italian managers are generally successful in the prem.
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As a match going supporter and speaking to other regulars there’s no one blaming this shitshow on Amorim
 
Gavinb33 said:
Is profiles the new football buzzword, it user to be project or philosophy, I'm sure this wasn't part of football parlance a few years ago
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Not really, it's just a synonym for type, archetype, fit and many other terms.
 
Gavinb33 said:
He's at least realised the midfield cannot carry on as it was in the last few matches
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How do you figure that ? Casemiro retains his place and Ugarte comes back from injury , it’s hardly a new setup or 2 new midfielders in
 
Zed 101 said:
When did we have a full squad? Of halfway decent players that is? You cannot really count Eriksen, Case, Lindelof, Mount or Shaw.... You could argue that Antony and Malacia were options but they were hardly adding anything of value.

The only issue Amorim has caused is Rashford, now whilst I think we really could have used him and would probably have a few more goals and points if he had played, near enough the whole CAF has been begging to ditch him for the last 18 months because of his attitude Amorim has just done what everyone was saying should be done.

I just hope he can bring in a youth player or three.
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i can see the problem with your argument - you say 'antony was hardly adding anything of value' and frame that as an issue caused by the player rather than the issue being the coach could not get anything out of antony.

its the same issue i see in every thread on the forum - people say x players aren't playing well so x players are bad and how can amorim win with bad players - but the reality is when the team is bad, due to coaching, the players look bad. all of these players have been good before they came and now antony is a good example of someone who has left and was good again overnight. bad coaching makes players look bad, hence why we can't sell players, spend a lot of money that look good under good coaches, and then they suddenly 'are bad' and we can't sell them again.

just my opinion of course but amorim is making this group look worse than they are, his job should be at an absolute minimum make them look as good as they are, and really if we are investing in his rebuild he should be making them look better than they are - via coaching.
 
VP89 said:
Ugarte and Casemiro midfield. I wanted to see this!
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On paper that looks good.

For me though Casemiro is a worry. Put simply I don't buy his age and loss of legs as some have said.

I don't think he is trying
 
lilcurt said:
Just hearing his interview with Rio on TNT. It ended with..

"I try, but sometimes your best is not enough."

It sounds like he doesn't have full belief in himself or the club to turn this around. I like the guy, but this was this first time I've felt worried by what he is saying.
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I noticed this too. First time I’ve heard him say something which implies this job is too big for him.
 
lilcurt said:
Just hearing his interview with Rio on TNT. It ended with..

"I try, but sometimes your best is not enough."

It sounds like he doesn't have full belief in himself or the club to turn this around. I like the guy, but this was this first time I've felt worried by what he is saying.
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Talking about his record
 
Crashoutcassius said:
i can see the problem with your argument - you say 'antony was hardly adding anything of value' and frame that as an issue caused by the player rather than the issue being the coach could not get anything out of antony.

its the same issue i see in every thread on the forum - people say x players aren't playing well so x players are bad and how can amorim win with bad players - but the reality is when the team is bad, due to coaching, the players look bad. all of these players have been good before they came and now antony is a good example of someone who has left and was good again overnight. bad coaching makes players look bad, hence why we can't sell players, spend a lot of money that look good under good coaches, and then they suddenly 'are bad' and we can't sell them again.

just my opinion of course but amorim is making this group look worse than they are, his job should be at an absolute minimum make them look as good as they are, and really if we are investing in his rebuild he should be making them look better than they are - via coaching.
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Ignoring Amorim, I have the same observation and same issue. Coaching and man management is totally overlooked by a large chunk of fans which is somewhat ironic because if coaching and man management are so negligeable compared to player football and mental abilities then why are these same people hellbent on following these managers to Hell and back? What are these managers' added value outside of existing?
 
Roane said:
On paper that looks good.

For me though Casemiro is a worry. Put simply I don't buy his age and loss of legs as some have said.

I don't think he is trying
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Honestly he's going to be better than Bruno in a deeper role. I think he's positionally smart and will plug gaps so long as he has a defensive midfielder next to him. We've hardly ever tried it, I think it was tested with RvN and it worked well (albeit with easy fixtures).

I've found it frankly insane we've tested random things like Mainoo up top and Bruno erratically deep before we've tried to pair a player of Casemiro's experience with Ugarte as dual DMs.
 
lilcurt said:
Just hearing his interview with Rio on TNT. It ended with..

"I try, but sometimes your best is not enough."

It sounds like he doesn't have full belief in himself or the club to turn this around. I like the guy, but this was this first time I've felt worried by what he is saying.
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The man is struggling badly, he looks totally battered compared to when he first arrived. I'm praying he makes it until the end of the season, and if he does that results in us ending the season with a run of good results.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Away games in empty stadia aren't real away games.

The one variable that makes away games uniquely difficult wasn't there.
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Your home routine is still disturbed, away facilities remained unfamiliar territory and it was even worse during Covid with all the added travelling protocols. Now while it wasn't the same context, I don't know if it made it better or worse but it was still away games.
 
Swiss_Red89 said:
We've three attacking player on the pitch...three.

Rest are defenders or CM.
I expected a modern coach with a loth of ideas to make us more exciting to watch.

What a dissapointment he has been so far.
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By rights it's probably 2 and the 2 are Hojlund and Zirkzee. Yeah I'm not expecting blockbuster football today.

We should be really organised and difficult to break down though right?....Right!?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
i can see the problem with your argument - you say 'antony was hardly adding anything of value' and frame that as an issue caused by the player rather than the issue being the coach could not get anything out of antony.

its the same issue i see in every thread on the forum - people say x players aren't playing well so x players are bad and how can amorim win with bad players - but the reality is when the team is bad, due to coaching, the players look bad. all of these players have been good before they came and now antony is a good example of someone who has left and was good again overnight. bad coaching makes players look bad, hence why we can't sell players, spend a lot of money that look good under good coaches, and then they suddenly 'are bad' and we can't sell them again.

just my opinion of course but amorim is making this group look worse than they are, his job should be at an absolute minimum make them look as good as they are, and really if we are investing in his rebuild he should be making them look better than they are - via coaching.
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Which players? Because Mou, Ole, ETH and now Amorim have all failed with ostensibly the same players looking poor, what is more likely the players are not as good as we need or every manager we have is a rubbish coach?

Antony at Betis is hardly proof of anything in his favour, he is just not Premier League quality
 
Red00012 said:
As a match going supporter and speaking to other regulars there’s no one blaming this shitshow on Amorim
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Same people who also made a petition to keep Ten Hag? Not exactly proven themselves to be discerning, have they? In any case, the manager at this club always creates a cult around him where he can do no wrong.

Doesn't matter who says what, if we say 60-70% fault is on the club and players, Amorim still has to shoulder 30% of the blame. What's the point of hiring a coach if we can simply absolve him of all blame?

Losing to Bournemouth, Brighton and Palace, barely scraping past Leicester in the cups are all on him. Tactically he's been appalling.
 
VP89 said:
Honestly he's going to be better than Bruno in a deeper role. I think he's positionally smart and will plug gaps so long as he has a defensive midfielder next to him. We've hardly ever tried it, I think it was tested with RvN and it worked well (albeit with easy fixtures).

I've found it frankly insane we've tested random things like Mainoo up top and Bruno erratically deep before we've tried to pair a player of Casemiro's experience with Ugarte as dual DMs.
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Hope you're right.

Just to be clear I'm not saying Casemiro can't do it. I'm saying he plays as if he isn't bothered.

I don't expect him to be running around like a 20 year old. Just simply be able to play the ball forward, simple passes, with enough pace to reach a team mate. And not pass to opposition players.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Crazy that was only four years ago and people were moaning about it at the time so bad. It was right to want better but what the hell is this mess we’re in right now. It’s unbelievable.
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Worth mentioning that was the Covid season. Pretty sure our home form was poor that season.
 
Zed 101 said:
Which players? Because Mou, Ole, ETH and now Amorim have all failed with ostensibly the same players looking poor, what is more likely the players are not as good as we need or every manager we have is a rubbish coach?

Antony at Betis is hardly proof of anything in his favour, he is just not Premier League quality
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Ostensibly the same players being poor? Here is the list of players that have survived since Ole left, Maguire, Amad, Garnacho, Lindelof, Shaw, Dalot, Bruno and Heaton.
 
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