Iraola, Frank, I have no idea. I'm sure there's a manager out there that doesn't lose 55% of games with a 1bn squad
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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It’s interesting you reference Iraola, who didn’t win a single game in his first ten matches, in a far less pressured job.
Most fans wouldn't want him sacked but the way it is going, we wont win another 3 league games this season... so if he doesn't, he should be sacked really. We need to have a high standard set.
With a far worse team. Yet to see any uptick in performance with Amorim that Iraola had shown by then
It is also interesting... what happened after?
Amorim has come and he has had 20 games and we dont look like turning the corner anytime soon.
I rather a manager who will start badly and improve than one who starts badly and never improve?
I’ve seen your posts on Amorim, and they are consistently extremely negative. This squad is very obviously worth nowhere near a billion pounds, in practical terms, so that’s just needless hyperbole, and not worthy of any real discussion.
You need to get it well out of your head that this is a 1bn squad. Jesus christ just go through the names, only 10 of them are fit for any purpose at all.
We added over £400m of deadwood under ETH. Shaw became broken and Sancho+Rashford became toxic.
But it's the wrong time for any manager.
It's an unbelievably bad time to take control of this club. Whoever it was, they'd be facing the results of a decade of terrible mismanagement.
That's not an Amorim thing.
There are certainly managers that were available who would've done much better and wouldnt have lost 8 of the last 14 league games, even Ruud wouldnt have lost 8 of the 14 league games Ruben has had.
Are you honestly telling me that if Amorim had came in and not won a single game in the first ten, you wouldn’t be having these exact same reactions we’re seeing now about losing faith?
The situation at United is terrible. They have a terrible squad. I find unfathomable that people want to give up on a manager within the first six months, regardless of results, but that’s just me.
I don't dispute this at a high level. However, I think if we had a coach who was willing to compensate for our players weaknesses we wouldn't be in relegation form.
Amorim could pack midfield, set the team out to be compact and not rely on centre backs for central progression. He is choosing not to.
He says he's doing that to give the team a platform for next season. I don't understand how it can be. Its not going to fill you with belief if your experience of the system is getting played off the park by the likes of Brighton or scraping by Southampton.
We cannot keep getting beaten week-in-week out and expect it to have no hangover next season. FFP guarantees that the bulk of the squad we have today will be here in September. At the first sign of trouble next season they will collapse. Just like they did under Ten Hag this season. I don't understand why we think doing the same thing that we did last season will lead to a different outcome.
You can pack the midfield but if your goalkeeper consistently make mistakes and your forwards can't finish it doesn't matter.
You can't compensate for that. No manager can eliminate that kind of weakness. You have to buy replacements or if the players are young, wait and hope maturity sorts it out.
Isn't Ruben the youngest manager in the league? Kind of makes it worse that we'd put somebody like him under such immense pressure, in the middle of a season that was a car crash already. When Ole took over Jose for example at least he inherited a 22-23 year old Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Matic, Herrera among others. It was a solid squad that could deliver that new manager bounce. Ruben has come into a squad that's the result of 2-3 years of horrendous recruitment and decisions. This was never the time to recruit a manager who's still learning the game, we needed experience and a more adaptive coach.
Players are liklier to make mistakes when they're nervous.
I think its fair to ask if there may be some relationship between our players going out to play a system and tactics they clearly don't believe in and them making unforced errors?
This thread is turning many fans against each other which is so sad to see, leeches laughing their heads off in the Florida mansions makes you sick.
He didn't win many games but everyone game him time due to the amount of games we had... we are seeing fans question him, now that he has had full week training sessions and the team looks no better.
As you said.. Iraola didnt win in his first 10... after that it was an upward trejectory.
With Amorim there is none, no signs of improvement, just bleek football, soon it will be just excuses.
I just looked back, when I said Ten Hag should be sacked because he is dragging us to a relegation battle... your comment was what on earth...
4 months later... surprise surprise we are in a real relegation scrap.
You’d have a point if we haven’t been watching them make the exact same unforced errors since the beginning of the season. Unless you think Amorim was somehow to blame while he was still working in Portugal?
If they gave him an ultimatum to leave sporting and join United at the worst possible time to teach these guys to play in 343 as soon as possible only to fire him before the season ends or in the summer. It will be the most despicable thing the ownership has ever done. They better back him in a big big way to clean up their mess.
But United aren’t in a relegation scrap. That’s simply not true.
You expected a noticeable improvement against Spurs? Really? I’d say it’s fairly obvious that any upside of a week’s training together was wiped out by nearly half the squad all getting injured or sick at once.
Exactly. Some common sense is required here.
Amorim will not change, he will play 3 CBs forever. Can't he see that things are not working? And he won’t get 5 new players soon.
I don't think they believed that Ten Hag's midfield set up was the best approach either.
I think it was obvious some time ago that they had very little belief in Ten Hag's approach and I see no evidence that they have any confidence in Amorim.
And I think anyone who thinks the formations used by either of these managers are the root of all our problems is badly missing the point.
Hoping he has a good end to the season and strings together atleast 3 or 4 wins. If not, I don’t see how you come back with him after the summer. It’ll be Ten Hag from last summer all over again.
He may be a good coach. But he's clearly out of his depth here
He can't motivate his player, even when they're rubbish a good manager would still at least make them workable until he can find better
He can't adapt. If you only have 1 formation and 1 only you'll be found out pretty fast as teams in EPL have playera that can throw a spanner on your machine. You should at least have 2-3 variations to your tactics if you dont want to get found out
Most of our failed managers won trophies elsewhere, even McLaren wont with fecking FC Twente. Doing it in Portugal even with Spoting Lisbon doesnt guarantee he's good enough for the top league
He's had 3 months to implement his tactics. I can forgive rubbish player making mistake, or even not getting the result but 3 months of full first team training should get his formation at least going, even without an ideal personnel. Again we're not asking for domination, but signs that players know his formation and shows some improvement. If he can't make the team cohesive in 3 months, giving him 200M and another 12 months dont look like a great idea
Might as well sack him at the end of the season and find another manager. He has shown nothing to merit gambling on him for the next rebuild. He's young, and that's about it.
He can't motivate his player, even when they're rubbish a good manager would still at least make them workable until he can find better
He can't adapt. If you only have 1 formation and 1 only you'll be found out pretty fast as teams in EPL have playera that can throw a spanner on your machine. You should at least have 2-3 variations to your tactics if you dont want to get found out
Most of our failed managers won trophies elsewhere, even McLaren wont with fecking FC Twente. Doing it in Portugal even with Spoting Lisbon doesnt guarantee he's good enough for the top league
He's had 3 months to implement his tactics. I can forgive rubbish player making mistake, or even not getting the result but 3 months of full first team training should get his formation at least going, even without an ideal personnel. Again we're not asking for domination, but signs that players know his formation and shows some improvement. If he can't make the team cohesive in 3 months, giving him 200M and another 12 months dont look like a great idea
Might as well sack him at the end of the season and find another manager. He has shown nothing to merit gambling on him for the next rebuild. He's young, and that's about it.
It's not asking him to work miracles to be expecting a bit of an upturn in performances and results after a few months, which is all anyone wants to see, evidence that we're moving in the right direction and the majority would be on board I think.
We haven't seen that so far, it's still largely poor performances, lack of goals, an outnumbered midfield two, and many cheap goals conceded.
There's more than one way to play football. He's clearly said he won't change, but his idea isn't working in the league so far, so maybe he's not the guy. It's OK for people to think that as much as it is to put blind faith in him given time.
He is young and I had some reservations about that. Some of his coaches even younger. It's very unusual. But ultimately that makes no difference to the problems we're seeing. They existed under a 50 odd year old coach.
But we were doing the same under ETH in a formation completely familiar to them.
Onana's mistakes knocked us out of the Champions League under ETH. He's just no good.
Finishing/scoring goals was a major problem under ETH. In a formation they knew. The forwards are too young.
80-90% is a player quality issue, but Amorim is not doing much about things he can improve. We are terrible at recruitment of players, and also of managers it seems. We are in terrible form but still finished way ahead of Porto in the EL. I think too many fans overestimate the Portugese league.
Can't help but feel he's going the same way as Ten Hag, let down by the forwards, the dodgy keeper and players that for some reason can't complete simple passes.
At the same time, he's doing nothing to help them/himself either by persisting with things that clearly aren't working.
At the same time, he's doing nothing to help them/himself either by persisting with things that clearly aren't working.
Difference of perspective I guess. I think Ten Hag had a lot of confidence from the squad until he decided to have an ultra aggressive front press that left one man in centre midfield.
Likewise, I think the players did not set themselves against Amorim. However, repeatedly being outnumbered in midfield, and playing in a system that accentuates their flaws instead of covers them has had visible impacts.
Is this all Amorim's fault? No. Did I say it was? Not that I recall. If that's how you interpreted it, fair enough.
Did I expect Amorim to come in and challenge for the title? Of course not. We were not that far from the top four when he came in. However, it would not have been a huge surprise to finish in the top half. At the moment we are a million miles off of that.
I think its very fair to ask how this is all working out and whether it shows any signs of ever doing so. Ok if you don't.
Ya that is also bollocks. There were plenty unlucky calls and missed big chances as well.
We are in 15th, with little chance of turning it around.
Not sure why you mention Porto. Amorim managed Sporting, who were undefeated in this season's Champion's league with him as their manager.
If you do want to focus on the EL though, then go ahead, seeing as it's the one competition in which we definitely have improved under Amorim. 4 wins from 4 games under him this season. 1 in 3 before he took over.
And you're absolutely sure things aren't working because we play 3 CB's?
I get it, he came in after the season had already started and some of the players don't suit his system, but am concerned that am not seeing any patterns of play, defending is shite, set pieces (attacking & defending) is atrocious, obviously our strikers can't score and midfield can't hold on to the ball...
While it may be admirable that he's sticking to his favoured formation, I much prefer a manager who's able to adapt his formation to change the course of a game. I haven't seen much of that in his time at United.
While it may be admirable that he's sticking to his favoured formation, I much prefer a manager who's able to adapt his formation to change the course of a game. I haven't seen much of that in his time at United.
Did we move to a 3-5-2 in the second half? I thought Garnacho was playing much deeper and the Zirk higher. We were much better in the second half in any case.
brought on such negativity with how this ownership group handled things. It was obvious to move on from EtH. Instead lose part of the season with what all of us who werent blinded by a lucky cup run knew. This leads to bringing on amorin during a time period where we cant get any players to fit this radically different system. This leads to just an epic collapse and incredible negativity with this group of players/overall situation. Now amorin will have zero leash next season and if we dont get a result in the first game or two things will just be ridiculous negative with people clamoring for more change. Such a shit situation
Surely you aren’t suggesting our manager actually does tweak and adapt his formation during games?
I said something similar a couple weeks agoDalot played much more further forward in the 2nd half as well, not that he did much but it meant their LB wasn't given free rein to bomb forward all the time
We get caught out so often, IMO, because when we go forward we overcommit, both WB's are high up the pitch and it leaves too much space, we need to stop with both WB's going forward as much together
EL is our level, that is true. Our aim this season should be to win the tournament.