agree anyone saying sack him is off their rocker but we can't say for sure he's the right guy either. He's got to show that in some way.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
agree anyone saying sack him is off their rocker but we can't say for sure he's the right guy either. He's got to show that in some way.
Mid table is 8 points away. I reckon Onana alone has cost us that.
Swap our keeper with Brighton's and the two clubs likely swap positions.
There's really not much in it.
People keep comparing the notion of keeping him for the rest of the season to INEOS not sacking Ten Hag last summer as if they're even remotely similar.
One had 2 full seasons under his belt with the highest net spend in Europe since being hired and the club actively interviewing potential successors for weeks while the other has barely 4 months on the job and a single January signing upon joining midseason...
Not the same universe context wise and any further myopic decision making will seriously diminish our ability to attract both fledgling and established candidates in the future.
One had 2 full seasons under his belt with the highest net spend in Europe since being hired and the club actively interviewing potential successors for weeks while the other has barely 4 months on the job and a single January signing upon joining midseason...
Not the same universe context wise and any further myopic decision making will seriously diminish our ability to attract both fledgling and established candidates in the future.
The question is: what happened to the ‚game model‘ that was developed and implemented this season (maybe even the last games of last season)?
I‘m starting to think it was binned along with Ten Hag. A knee jerk reaction by Ratcliffe.
If so, that is going backwards. We need to build structure, not repeat mistakes from the past.
I think if we've learned anything about United fans it's that a huge proportion of them always demand exactly the worst thing for the club to do at any given moment.
To be honest the amount of idiot moments and terrible finishing were laughably plentiful under Ten Hag, and it's happening once again under Amorim. What is a manager meant to do if your keepers throw the ball in and your attack balloon most chances they get over the bar.
ETH's final game was a testament to that, in fairness. The players were genuinely trying but couldn't hit a barn door. Question is though, was the coaching so poor that it's almost impossible for Ruben to drill it out of them in 3 months.
I'd argue a keeper and attackers playing at the top level should be doing miles better than these seem to be. Again I have to question if mentally there is something very wrong here, and if so, how a new setup/manager has come in and not been able to really make a jot of difference.
I’m not saying it’s 100% the players, the manager has come in and said this is my system, I will play it no matter what, it’s clear the players can’t adapt and he won’t either, that’s what we call short term pain. If we want a manager that will adapt to the squad he has then Dyche is available, the question is though, if we reset the squad for the most part in the summer with players that can play to this system, do you want Dyche in charge or do you want Amorim?
Changing systems is what go Ten Hag sacked, it was seen as a sign of weakness by the board, and the players couldn’t adapt to much he offered either except counter attack.
The manager hasn’t helped but at the same time why should he? Unless we go down he’ll be here into next season regardless.
We’re lacking a spine massively. A goal keeper that doesn’t make saves, strikers that don’t score goals, that’s impossible to work with no matter who you are.
No is the answer. We are seeing the same problems. We looked good against Arsenal and Pool, so it is not the coaching. We were poor against most other teams. No consistency.
Amorim is struggling worse than Ten Hag, with the same issues: poor finishing and lackluster performances.
This is exactly what happened. INEOS were putting a structure in place, but for various reasons few of the appointeees were in position at the start of the summer. So we had the farce of Radcliffe interviewing managers. Seemed there was disagreement over transfers with Tuchel, his preferred candidate, so he stuck with ETH. When its quickly apparent how terrible it was, Berrrada seems to have come in and promoted Amorim as the man for the job, even though it goes against the whole approach promised at the outset. Presumably Ashworth think its a joke and so he is off. And we are left with an even bigger mess. An inexperienced manager with a rigid system and few players suitable for it. And if/ when he goes, how many players will he have been given that the next manager discards. Joke of a club.
Why?
We can focus on anything we want but no one has the answers. We can talk mentality but we have changed so many players too. I mean even this season with Ugarte, Maz, De Ligt and Zirkzee, all seem like they have dropped levles.
Every player we sign, in 6 months drops levels to the players we have, poor on the ball, lack of desire etc....
What has he shown here that would make anyone believe in him?
I advocated for more pragmatism earlier on but I think we're way past that now, if he backs down at this point on his principles it undermines his main strength which is his idealism and belief in his system.
What I do think he needs to change and quickly is being so honest with the press, the amount of pressure on us as a club is ridiculously high and that's in large part driven by the media. He shouldn't be feeding that.
What I do think he needs to change and quickly is being so honest with the press, the amount of pressure on us as a club is ridiculously high and that's in large part driven by the media. He shouldn't be feeding that.
Stop talking sense. You will be labeled a narcissist.
Since the 7-0 against Liverpool, we have sunk into levels that we have never seen. Alot of people here said, we needed to react to that decision and sack ETH immediately. But what did we do. Gave him 200m more to spend.
Since that day, it's like we were defiled (mods please understand). Something went off that day. A light was dimmed that day and we have never recovered.
Interestingly, from that point to end of the season, we had same coach and players but our performance sunk massively. It shows some thing can damage you immensely even when things are held constant.
Exactly, No United fan can actually say they believe in him at the moment. There is 0 evidence to believe in the manager.
Most managers, good or bad, when get appointed to a club get a change in results, heck even Ole did.
So to see how badly we are performing, this is down to the manager, he cannot understand what the players strengths and weaknesses are at the moment.
No one can give 5 things that the manager has shown to believe in him yet.
I think as others alluded to before in this thread, Klopp's first season at Liverpool is a good example of short term pain and what it should entail for clubs of this stature or any stature for that matter. Klopp had the team scoring plenty of goals, got a tune out of players that he knew he'd be binning in the summer, and although there were a lot of embarrassing results in between the progress was undeniably there. That's not what we're seeing here with Ruben so far, and I reckon his idea of short term pain does not resemble what he's witnessing himself either. I'm aware the circumstances are different, but I think we can all agree that it's not solely short term pain, it's been largely a disaster in the league and more so a free fall.
If we sack him I genuinely give up
Them press conferences and interviews though. The man can definitely sell himself well.
It will if he loses the next two PL games, SJR bought out Ashworth contract and then sacked him 4 months later for something not nearly as bad as a head coach losing 60% of his games in the EPL, he went through multiple coaches in no time at Nice, he has form?
Wait, I'm just confused. You're okay giving him time to get things right but don't trust his system?
That wasn't me. But I don't want to see him go immediately, just would prefer if we don't spend heavily on his vision. Might end up the same way as ETH.
And if he can't get us there without very specific spending, it's probably better to look for an alternative
I think a ‘total reset’ will take a lot longer than one transfer window, given both our financial situation and Amorim’s *very* specific needs for his system and lack of flexibility. Next season will probably still be a work in progress.
Not sure many people want him sacked. But the reality is he has had the worst start of any United manager in decades, with only small league experience and a fixed system that is not used by top level teams. The football is poor and we still look disorganised. Plus we have little money to spend. So the odds are well and truly sacked against him.
They mean nothing though... every single manager we've had spoke well in the first 6 months until it was their team, then they became excuses.
Ole - talked about being the fittest team in the league, fast football..... 1 year into the job was excuses.
Ten Hag - Spoke really well at the start about control of the game, rest defence, culture etc... 1 year later was making excuses
Amorim - Speaks well right now but once its his team, he will be full of excuses.
The day when what the manager says and I see on the pitch is when I will believe it. At the moment its all the opposite.
He gave it the big one about training... last 3/4 weeks we have had 1 game a week with enough training time and I see literally no differences from now to his first game.
This season hasn't been a work in progress, it's been one big dumpster fire. We cannot afford another season like this one, not a hope in hell.
This is exactly where my head is at. I can't think of a top manager in the last 20 years that hasn't shown they can adapt their ideas when the time calls for it. I 100% believe Amorim will do this, I just hope that will be at United.
Most fans don’t want him sacked, however that doesn’t mean he won’t be, purely because SJR is the mad tyrant ‘Thanos’ and he is hell Bent making half the fan base and club employees disappear with the click of a finger!
If the players are coming out saying that they are not happy with his setup and that the few wins they managed to get came as a result of individual brilliance rather than anything tactical the manager has clearly lost the confidence of the players he is expected to get a performance out of over the rest of the season and performances wont improve and meaning we finish 17th at best with no trophies.
We need to win either the FA Cup or Europa League so we have European Football next season and have at least a small transfer fund for the summer which isnt reliant on players being sold first overwise we'll be starting next season we the squad we have now and it'll probably be another write off as Ruben has seemingly shown he isnt capable of getting a performance out of these players.
We need to win either the FA Cup or Europa League so we have European Football next season and have at least a small transfer fund for the summer which isnt reliant on players being sold first overwise we'll be starting next season we the squad we have now and it'll probably be another write off as Ruben has seemingly shown he isnt capable of getting a performance out of these players.
Not only that but not one of the Youth team plays 3421 as a System.
We’re talking about a manager that was unbeaten and top of the league at his previous club. Doing well in Europe. And yet we’re meant to believe he doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing? His sporting side are now only 2 points at the top since he left which means they’ve dropped a lot of points. We have players like Yoro praising him, so he hasn’t lost the dressing room. He just needs proper backing. A ST, number 10. Another midfielder and some defenders.
Does Liverpool, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern etc youth teams play the same formation as the first team do?
Assuming this wasn't a disingenuous post, what exactly has he done to make anyone think he is the 'right guy'?
Other than a few good press conferences he has literally done everything to show he is the wrong guy, and I'm really bemused as to why he has so much credit in the bank for some.
I think this is a case of desperately wanting a big decision to be right even when it's glaringly wrong
For a start you arent having a total reset. No club ever has a total reset, even if they have unlimited money, which United don't. The most is going to be a couple of players different. So what makes anyone think that is going to be a big enough change?
I know that coming from Chelsea point of view we have always fired managers way too quickly, even after success, but often it has been right.
Theres a difference between short term suffering and what looks like willfull ignorance. None of what he is doing makes any sense whatsoever.
I would be very concerned about having him going into another season.
Usually yes, since they don't play anything exotic. No clue how Leverkusen's youth teams play though
Others have already done it for me because it's ridiculous. Your man ruined this squad the more he had chance.
There's an argument we were stronger in every position bar RW.
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Usually there's a similar tactical scheme. That's the whole point of the "game model".
It's not like we are getting battered every week, we have lost once by more than 2 goals with Amorim, and this is with a crap keeper and striker. If we fixed those 2, it wouldn't make us good but our league position would be significantly better.
Pretty much. He will lose the faith of the squad by the end of this season. Next season won't be much different, because the team will be largely the same. After that it's just a matter of time. Bringing him this season was a mistake.