Lose the next two and it's over I think. Can't see Brexit Jim putting up with it much longer
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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90% of them need firing out of a cannon, we are stuck in this rinse and repeat cycle of dressing room leaks and downing tools.
Honestly give him free reign to do what he wants, his results should have been better but someone has to reset this club and the sooner it happens the better.
Honestly give him free reign to do what he wants, his results should have been better but someone has to reset this club and the sooner it happens the better.
He needs to go nuclear and start the kids. We aren't getting relegated, and finishing 16th or 12th makes no difference. Get some minutes in the kids and let the seasoned ones know their performance levels aren't acceptable.
Leverkusen did break records last season using it and are doing well this season again.
Just to name one example for another team using that formation.
I get where you're coming from but managing by sheer pressure and fear also isn't a sustainable way.
I've managed people for over a decade and whilst it's obviously different, humans remain very much the same.
Fans often resort to wanting to be 'ruthless' and punish people into being better. It's also a pretty normal human way to be, which is why we've so much awful history as a species.
He will obviously feel pressure but pressure in isolation isn't a motivator. You can manage by fear for very short periods to get very specific results but it isn't sustainable. Especially not in this day and age. People will not accept it. They don't have to accept it.
The problems we're seeing go way past the players being rubbish or ETH/Amorim just being clueless idiots.
It's a more extreme version of what city have experienced. I actually think the club need real unity and support at this time. We're struggling far beyond what we should be and the answer isn't sinlmy get rid of everyone that's hurt our feelings by not playing well. We've seen with players that they can go and be better elsewhere. Cos rant rotation of managers and players hasn't solved anything, has it? This chopping, changing, cutting and turning in our academy lot has just seen us spiral more and more.
Scott was laughed at repeatedly by our own fans. Mcsauce etc etc. Wonder if he's having better time of it now?
Do you reckon rashford misses the United crowd? Antony? Danny Wellbeck? Think Lingard is ruing not being here?
Woodward, Arnold, Jose, Ole, Rashford, Ronaldo, Pogba, Lingard and the list can go on and on and on of people our fans have dubbed "the problem" and yet we're worse off.
This is going to take TIME to fix. We've spent over a decade furious and saying we've been run into the ground so why do we expect it to be fixed in months?
Fans view things in such narrow windows. We look at days and weeks but I expect Ineos will be looking at this in terms of years. It's going to take many months and a few windows to get everything sorted. I'm the meantime, we need to build solidarity, team spirit etc and you won't get that by just putting pressure on everyone to be better. The problems clearly run deeper than that.
That's true, Alonso didn't go on record saying it's the only system he knows and that he won't adapt under any circumstances though
We lost 20 games in 1973/1974 season won 10 drew 12 in the old points system it was 32 points and our GD was only -10.
That’s should tell you how bad we are right now, that team would not be relegated in this PL but probably bottom 6.
We need 3 more wins than the relegation nonsense will die down but Amorim also needs to stop losing games and put some points on the table. For us to be relegated we would need to maybe get 7 or 8 points from the last 13 Games(0.55 points per game!) and Ipswich or Leicester get 1.6 per game and wolves get 1.5 points per game.
Now I could see wolves maybe doing that and we end up 17th that’s not impossible and that would be enough to get RA the sack. I genuinely believe the board are already having the conversation and Ruben might actually walk which would probably suit the board, he must get a result against Everton and a win against Ipswich or he’s in big trouble, irrespective of what we as fans think and want, you can’t manage man united with a 55% loss rate on the EPL, you simply can’t?
That's a fair point about Amorim's apparent lack of flexibility. But it still is an example for a top team using his system.
There is also Gasperini and there is no world where his Football would be labeled as defensive.
Do they play it more like a 352 with 3 central mids? We'd have a lot more control even with the extra mid.
Yeah I don't mind the system, I'd just prefer my manager to show a modicum of flexibility and adjust to situations. Of course it's not that black and white, but Amorim just backed himself into a corner
That’s my point if he loses the next two matches, he’s gone that’s would be 10 PL defeats from 16 which is untenable that’s a 63% loss rate, even when we got relegated in 1974 we lost 20 from 42 Matches (47%), as much as I’ve been rooting for this guy you can’t manage Man United with a 60% Loss rate you have to be sacked!
Plus 11 games would give an interim enough time to switch back to 433 and get the 10 points needed to secure PL football next season, INEOS have form for taking over a club and getting it relegated, so you would assume the Glazers might expert some pressure as this would be a financial disaster!
Pressure starting to pile on
Sadly I agree. I really wanted this to work out, but you cannot argue with those stats.
It better be because they know their own futures are tied to his success...
I forever won't trust the judgement of any of the decision makers if we end up on a 4th fecking manager this season
I hope the players are having increasing doubts on their pathetic ability to hit the ball into the goal thing.
Is this from that Daily Mail prick? Really can't stand when people post his nonsense. He's always trying to capitalise on the chaos around the club and stir the pot. Just wish everyone would ignore him
None of these players have earned the right to question anyone tbh.
They need to look in the mirror first and quite frankly, if they're not happy, they know where the door is but they won’t ever willingly as they're paid copiously and love the lifestyle that comes with playing for us.
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Won't happen
Alright
Last 4 matches they have played 442, 352, 3421 and 4231, shows his flexibility he played 442 against Bayern and attacked them for 90 mins and should have won.
Alonso also got to Europa League Final and easily qualified for round of 16 in the CL where he will believe he can go deep, Amorim has not proven himself on the European stage due to his inflexibility?
To be fair INEOS absolutely have no issue with everyone thinking they are clueless idiots, greedy selfish twats who don't know what they're doing, so they're capable of anything.
I think with how they treated Ashworth, there may well be a sudden firing with Amorim. Cut throat.
So predictable to see it all happening once again though, rinse and repeat.
Results have been poor in large part due to a chunk of the players absolutely knowing that their own tenures will be coming to an end should the system persist.
There could be realistically be double digit senior departures in the summer so now it’s them vs him...
Truly don't think he'd get worse results with the kids at this point and they wouldn't have any agendas.
Results have been poor in large part due to a chunk of the players absolutely knowing that their own tenures will be coming to an end should the system persist.
There could be realistically be double digit senior departures in the summer so now it’s them vs him...
Truly don't think he'd get worse results with the kids at this point and they wouldn't have any agendas.
Why pressure on the manager? they are not his players, they should be the ones facing the pressure.
I refuse to believe, mostly because I don't want to, that we're already at that point in a managers life cycle here. Surely not 
Sometimes, especially when Wirtz isn't available. But most often they play a 3421 using two DM/CM (typically two out of Xhaka/Andrich/Palacios), in front of them Wirtz and a "second striker" type like Tella, and then Boniface or Schick as the striker in front.
That's in principle not much different to how United line up, but Wirtz is just levels ahead of any United AM in terms of smart movement and hard work. Everybody United has in the squad is good at only one of these things, if at all.
Fourth? Ruud was a caretaker.
I am surprised its taken this long. We are in relegation form and our saving grace is the teams at the bottom being even worse than us.
10000000%.
'Best in class'!?!
I am surprised you are giving them any slack. My trust in their judgement has already gone. Picking this coach, for this squad, with little chance of investment this season...How is this any better than what happened pre-Ineos?There is no way Amorim is going anywhere. Not a chance. He's here until the end of next season at the very least. I will say that this latest 'players losing belief' is far more vague and speculative than anything weve seen in the past. stinks of a journalists just stating the obvious as if its a scoop. You lose matches and confidence goes- its that simple.
Because the players are the clubs players and his job is to get them to perform. He is doing worse than EtH who was sacked for a higher level of performances and we see no real improvement.
So Amorim is doing a bad job which results in pressure.
You have to get rid of the idea that players are signed for a manager and that the manager should be judged based on his signings. That model is dead.
You have to judge Wilcox/Vivell on the players they sign.
You have to judge Amorim on how they play.
Absolutely fecking ridiculous. Any player who doesn't want to be there, hand in your transfer request.
I am surprised its taken this long. We are in relegation form and our saving grace is the teams at the bottom being even worse than us.
10000000%.
'Best in class'!?!
It's not. But you will have many here want you to believe INEOS knows what they are doing.
Some lunatics on Redcafe are, but in the cold light of day he’s not going anywhere there will be another game abondoned by the match going fans if he was to be sackedI refuse to believe, mostly because I don't want to, that we're already at that point in a managers life cycle here. Surely not
If he wants to play a certain style and they can not, it is not his problem, it's the club's problem who brought him midseason. I am not saying he is some tactical genius and they are a bunch of thick players who can not execute his plans, but this is a common theme for these plyers with every manager when results does not go the way we want.
I have no issue with the manager/coach being given time to get things right, I have issue with rebuilding a squad to suit the system I don't believe in.
It's really a sad state of affairs because I do think he's the right age and profile we should be looking at but I'm just not convinced he was the correct decision for the club.
It's really a sad state of affairs because I do think he's the right age and profile we should be looking at but I'm just not convinced he was the correct decision for the club.
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A sensible post at last.
Of course it won’t. Some are just hoping out loud.
We've lost 8 out of the 14 league games he's managed. That would put any manager under pressure, regardless of club.
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This lazy argument again.
This is an extremely different team to even two years ago. I read somewhere that out of the team that played Barcelona away in 2023, only Fernandes and Casemiro played on Sunday.
Rashford hasn't played since the start of December. Sancho has spent most of the season at Chelsea. McTominay, Fred, Wan-Bissaka are all long gone now. All the previous scapegoats who "downed tools" are all out of the club.
The ones that played on Sunday (Casemiro aside potentially because we can't shift him) are all here because they have either been deemed good enough for us to sign over the last 18 months or they were seen as not the worst of a bad bunch. Amorim ultimately made the decision to move Rashford, Antony and Malacia on. He made the decision to bring in Dorgu. He has made the decision to persist with 343.
The team that was put out on Sunday was essentially stage 1 of the Amorim revolution. For me, he probably deserves to try and get to stage 2 but he's making the case less and less obvious with every passing league game.
Ultimately, the arguments that were used post Ole, Ragnick and Ten Hag aren't relevant now. Yes, he's an inhereited a mess but his changes to tactics and the squad means this current run of form is currently as much on him as it those running the club and the players.