Yeah but if we continue to be shit without noticeable signs of progress, this will be a valid question and decision to make for the management, don't you think?He won't be unless they're totally unconvinced his system isn't going to work in the PL and therefore they don't want to buy players that will fit his ideas. That's the only way he goes, otherwise they're going to back him in the summer and judge him next season with better players.
Would you say going unbeaten in the EL so far showed that?
I think it’s naive to think his job won’t be under threat next year if the current form continues as it is till the end of the season.He was hand picked by the CEO and the now de facto sporting director. I guarantee he will be here next season unless something goes drastically wrong. There's no way the club are blaming him for the position we are in, Ratcliffe knows he fecked up by not sticking with the decision to sack ten Hag last summer. Amorim wont be sacked before he's had a proper transfer window.
There probably won't be any noticeable signs of progress because a lot of the players at his disposal are not good enough for United, his system, and some, the PL. Until they have had a chance to address the fact we don't have a striker, we have crocked defenders, a hologram for a goalkeeper, and a midfield with no legs, he isn't going to be judged too harshly on performances or even our finishing position. We were firmly on this path to shitness with Ten Hag at the helm, nothing has changed except he's asking them to play a new system and they could barely play the old system, this is what you get.Yeah but if we continue to be shit without noticeable signs of progress, this will be a valid question and decision to make for the management, don't you think?
In that scenario, they'd have to decide to cut losses or invest in something that hasn't shown promise so far
He now has immunity until next season since management decided to bring in in no attackers despite losing players in that department. So this was an exercise in getting rid of deadwood. I am fine with that because he is doing a reset and wants to have time to coach the players properly in a style which is more sustainable and less dependent on individual flair. He will have pre-season to do so. We always look better when he has time to train the team. Also, young players tend to be more open to change and United have brought many of these in. I am optimistic.
So avoid relegation this year, next year mid-table, hopefully top 6 year after that. What's the aim for 27/28, solid challenge for top 4? Then maybe a title challenge by 2030?
Why judge him only next season? Why not now? You are not the only one writing this, and I just think it's weird.He won't be unless they're totally unconvinced his system isn't going to work in the PL and therefore they don't want to buy players that will fit his ideas. That's the only way he goes, otherwise they're going to back him in the summer and judge him next season with better players.
There is a middle way, that I would have thought most people would be on board with, which is get the man a genuine centre forward, and possibly another attacking fullback, allow him to have a preseason - with a squad that now know his expectations - and see how things are looking at that point. Apart from anything else I don't even think we will be able to spend 'hundreds of millions' due to the PSR situation so that's not even going to be a possibility?
He needs to use the players he has in a system they know until the end of the year - he can get his own players in then maybe!
The new system and the quality of the players is starting to sound like the 2 major excuses for Amorim.There probably won't be any noticeable signs of progress because a lot of the players at his disposal are not good enough for United, his system, and some, the PL. Until they have had a chance to address the fact we don't have a striker, we have crocked defenders, a hologram for a goalkeeper, and a midfield with no legs, he isn't going to be judged too harshly on performances or even our finishing position. We were firmly on this path to shitness with Ten Hag at the helm, nothing has changed except he's asking them to play a new system and they could barely play the old system, this is what you get.
They don't have a choice but to support him at this point. Promise or not, this team isn't good enough and sacking him and brining in another promising manager will go exactly the same way unless this team is ripped up and they start again. I said at the time when we were signing players Ten Hag wanted for his system that didn't work in the PL that we would be set back years by the piss poor recruitment. Mount, Onana, Antony, Hojlund, etc, these players aren't good enough for any system and now we're paying for it. Forget who the manager is, we could air drop Big Sam into the mix, go counter attacking and still lose games with these players, they're a total bunch of misfits.
Like I said before, as much as people want him to be sacked if this continues, it just isn't going to happen. The CEO hand picked him and the board have given him nothing but verbal backing, even when he's said this is the worst United team ever. In the summer, regardless of what happens this season, they will throw a couple of hundred million behind him and start asking for results. The current situation for any manager at Manchester United is impossible due to decisions made before their arrival.
Good post, fair pointsWhy judge him only next season? Why not now? You are not the only one writing this, and I just think it's weird.
Same as the statement "these aren't his players" which many on here also say.
We are talking about Manchester United.
The club signs the players, they are the club's players. The club signs the manager, he is the club's manager. His job is to get the players who are there to perform, and he can be judged from day one about how well he does that.
Of course you have to take the situation into context and it's fair to expect lesser results from a worse squad, but it's absolutely not necessary to wait another season to judge how well he does.
And it's a fact that results are worse than under EtH, but on the other hand EtH was often lucky to get those results. But under Amorim it feels like there is a chance to actually finally do the necessary cultural reboot (including getting rid of lazy players) and the team deems to be more stable to me, so I do think there are reasons to keep Amorim.
But I base this on what I see now and not just on the fact that he "didn't get the players he needs" or whatever excuse is used.
At last - a more positive post! Jeez the amount of negativity in here! We won't get relegated. I think it will take a while for Ruben to sort it out. Not sure the financial situation will be fixed so soon unfortunately. The best that he can do is bring through the young blood like SAF did in 92. Trouble is some on here just want managers gone as soon as we hit a low point instead of giving them time. If we keep getting shut of managers every time this happens we will get worseAssuming we avoid relegation, and somehow actually back the manager with at least a few transfers this summer, he will have us competing for top 4 next season. I don't think we'll get top 4, but that's due to the ridiculous amount of average to poor footballers at the club. You can't change everything so quickly.
If we can find a way to fix our finances, then he will have a real chance to compete in a couple of seasons though. He knows what he's doing and what kind of players we need.
I'm not saying don't judge him at all, I'm sure he is being judged on the way he handles himself, the things he says, the training sessions etc. but the last manager spent half a billion pounds on this squad that was supposed to be able to play his system specifically, and they couldn't. Now we've hired a guy with a totally different system and we're telling him to get more out of these players while selling or loaning out the players that carried the previous manager at times. If Amorim would have joined after we sold our entire first team and was left with the reserve side to play, would you be saying the same thing?Why judge him only next season? Why not now? You are not the only one writing this, and I just think it's weird.
Same as the statement "these aren't his players" which many on here also say.
We are talking about Manchester United.
The club signs the players, they are the club's players. The club signs the manager, he is the club's manager. His job is to get the players who are there to perform, and he can be judged from day one about how well he does that.
Of course you have to take the situation into context and it's fair to expect lesser results from a worse squad, but it's absolutely not necessary to wait another season to judge how well he does.
And it's a fact that results are worse than under EtH, but on the other hand EtH was often lucky to get those results. But under Amorim it feels like there is a chance to actually finally do the necessary cultural reboot (including getting rid of lazy players) and the team deems to be more stable to me, so I do think there are reasons to keep Amorim.
But I base this on what I see now and not just on the fact that he "didn't get the players he needs" or whatever excuse is used.
Yeah that's why I said unless things go drastically wrong. As soon as Amorim arrived he made the point of explaining in press conferences and interviews that this season would be a rollercoaster. I'm sure he had those conversations with the people upstairs so I don't think our form since he arrived should be a surprise to the higher ups. I would like to think they are all on the same page and will stick to their plan.I think it’s naive to think his job won’t be under threat next year if the current form continues as it is till the end of the season.
If we have another run of 5 defeats in the next 7 home games, serious questions will be asked about his ability to manage at a club like United. If you are Omar Berrada, and during the end of the season review the board asks if you are willing to back the manager with funds in the window, would you not have serious doubts before you stick your neck out? If Amorim fails to deliver next year, Berrada’s job and the jobs of whoever backs him will be under threat.
Just to be clear, I like Amorim and think he was dealt a bad hand by those above him. Still doesn’t change the fact that the current form is not sustainable at a club like United.
The bolded part applies to last season also. We were all those things except we didn't slide so far down the table, but we ultimately finished 8th. This season has just been a continuation on that downward trend with players being sold out from under the manager, lets not forget that Ten Hag started this season and wasn't exactly winning games or looking convincing, if he would have he'd still be here. If it wasn't for Amad who knows where we would be at this point.The new system and the quality of the players is starting to sound like the 2 major excuses for Amorim.
I get it, we have a bad squad, but with this bad squad(mostly) ETH managed to finish 3rd and 8th and won 2 cups. The difference between now and then is big, we cannot create chances, cannot defend, can't win games in the league and we are 13th. It wouldn't be an unreasonable demand, for any fan, to expect at least some progress, some signs, something, anything and I mean on the football pitch.
And about the system, if the current players can't play it, what do we do? Wait 5 years until we change all of them? And in the mean time we do not look at the results? It means repeating the same mistakes from the past when we allowed managers to buy their players, only to sack them afterwards and start the process all over again with the new manager who again failed.
In my opinion, we should only hire short time managers that win their longevity only by results. That's it. Like Bayern, Barcelona, Real did for the last 30 years. Stop searching for the next miracle manager because even if there is one we will never find him.
Re: the bit in bold, says who? Wankstain off of the Caf? Everyone is such a fecking expert on systems and formations these days it's ridiculous, it's still just 11 men kicking a ball about a patch of grass.If United come out of the 25 summer window with a striker and a fullback that's nowhere near good enough. The team need two number 10's (Greenwood, Elanga, Sancho and Rashford not replaced), a striker, two wingbacks (one being a backup) and a central midfielder to partner Ugarte.
That's a minimum of 6 signings to even get the system remotely working, then there's the real reality if Amorim has the coaching capacity to improve upon what he has as well as newer additions. You don't hire a manager with an approach such as Amorim and have two consecutive poor windows expecting him to be successful he will be sacked.
INEOS are pathetic, they would have known prior to having access to the club's finances that the situation was in disarray so why hire a manager who's philosophical ideas require wholesale changes. They should have gone for a manager who proverbially squeezes water out of rocks, making the best of bad circumstances and that requires experience that Amorim doesn't have and tactical versatility and a manager of that profile was available in Thomas Tuchel.
Waste a whole season to start again from next season. Yeah, that is logical.
Not just aimed at Amorim, but I don't get the whole buy players to suit his system.
I know they are old now but if you have a messi or a Ronaldo in a team you take over do you sell them if they don't suit your system? Or do you play a system to suit the player?
I'm all for managers having a plan. But I don't get why you can't adjust that to suit what's at hand.
If United come out of the 25 summer window with a striker and a fullback that's nowhere near good enough. The team need two number 10's (Greenwood, Elanga, Sancho and Rashford not replaced), a striker, two wingbacks (one being a backup) and a central midfielder to partner Ugarte.
That's a minimum of 6 signings to even get the system remotely working, then there's the real reality if Amorim has the coaching capacity to improve upon what he has as well as newer additions. You don't hire a manager with an approach such as Amorim and have two consecutive poor windows expecting him to be successful he will be sacked.
INEOS are pathetic, they would have known prior to having access to the club's finances that the situation was in disarray so why hire a manager who's philosophical ideas require wholesale changes. They should have gone for a manager who proverbially squeezes water out of rocks, making the best of bad circumstances and that requires experience that Amorim doesn't have and tactical versatility and a manager of that profile was available in Thomas Tuchel.
Hence... He was effective at coaching and poor at everything else. Which is exactly the point I was making.
Based on what?Assuming we avoid relegation, and somehow actually back the manager with at least a few transfers this summer, he will have us competing for top 4 next season. I don't think we'll get top 4, but that's due to the ridiculous amount of average to poor footballers at the club. You can't change everything so quickly.
If we can find a way to fix our finances, then he will have a real chance to compete in a couple of seasons though. He knows what he's doing and what kind of players we need.
And who would appoint instead, just to understand your thought process here?We are the only club constantly giving manager 3 years and hundred of millions before we can judge them. Meanwhile, all other clubs judge the manager from day one they have been appointed.
We are not expecting Amorim to challenge for the title or even top 4. We are expecting improvement and establishing a style of play. So far nothing and in fact we are worse.
If there was no improvement until end of the season, he should go, no more excuses.
He was parachuted in mid-season into a bloody shambles. He could have said no but, if the press are to be believed, he was given a 'now or never' choice by Berrada. The whole thing reeks of desperation.We are the only club constantly giving manager 3 years and hundred of millions before we can judge them. Meanwhile, all other clubs judge the manager from day one they have been appointed.
We are not expecting Amorim to challenge for the title or even top 4. We are expecting improvement and establishing a style of play. So far nothing and in fact we are worse.
If there was no improvement until end of the season, he should go, no more excuses.
Like we backed EtH? Backing the manager, whoever it is, has never been the problem. The players we bring in has.Assuming we avoid relegation, and somehow actually back the manager with at least a few transfers this summer, he will have us competing for top 4 next season. I don't think we'll get top 4, but that's due to the ridiculous amount of average to poor footballers at the club. You can't change everything so quickly.
If we can find a way to fix our finances, then he will have a real chance to compete in a couple of seasons though. He knows what he's doing and what kind of players we need.
No, this was the excuse for not judging Ten Hag, even after he had spent a billion quid. You would have a point if this set of players were good and won things, but seeing as we're not Madrid, there is some heavy work to be done recruitment wise before we see any vast improvement.We are the only club constantly giving manager 3 years and hundred of millions before we can judge them. Meanwhile, all other clubs judge the manager from day one they have been appointed.
We are not expecting Amorim to challenge for the title or even top 4. We are expecting improvement and establishing a style of play. So far nothing and in fact we are worse.
If there was no improvement until end of the season, he should go, no more excuses.
Do they? Should Iroala have been sacked? Should Arteta have been sacked? Ange right now could be sacked, but they’re going to back him still. Glasner could have been sacked for their start of season. Do ALL clubs do what you say?We are the only club constantly giving manager 3 years and hundred of millions before we can judge them. Meanwhile, all other clubs judge the manager from day one they have been appointed.
We are not expecting Amorim to challenge for the title or even top 4. We are expecting improvement and establishing a style of play. So far nothing and in fact we are worse.
If there was no improvement until end of the season, he should go, no more excuses.
It's kind of hinging on this wing back isn't it?You dont know that. Do you honestly see this form turning round?
He sold Van Persie and we did have Rooney even if he was starting to wane.We were crying out loud for an experienced striker that summer - I never understood why we went waving our dicks around in the transfer market for every other position but ignored that enormous hole in the squad.
Reckon with a decent striker, a lot of those 0-0 draws turn into 1-0 wins and suddenly we look a lot more competitive.
Missed opportunity for sure.
Amorim‘s system is close to Ten Hag‘s actually, apart from the building out the back structure. No further apart than Slot and Klopp imo.His system is completely different to ETH's which makes ETH's signings poorly suited into Amorim's system. I know its frustrating but that's unfortunately how things are. Hence why serious clubs who are run by serious men would have hired a manager whose style is closer to ETH's. Liverpool for example went for Slot whose philosophy fits the Klopp's team like a glove.
IDeots spoke about that as well (ie shifting from one style to another) and yet as most things with Ideots there seem a gulf between what they say and what they actually do.
Those who keep saying how he has to coach players more, take a good look at the schedule of Manchester united. During the season and off* season, maybe ~5 years ago there was seriously time to coach during season seriously - no there isn't really, barely any even off season because due international football.
Coaching as you want to, is very time limited now.
It's kind of hinging on this wing back isn't it?
A lot of people seem to reckon the wing backs are the key to the system, so things should improve with Dorgu on the pitch. If we see that improvement then great, tell Dalot to copy what the new guy does on his natural side and we should look a bit more competent.
If it doesn't make a jot of difference then I think we're pretty fecked unless Amorim changes tact. We've spent too much on players and made too little to totally overhaul the squad within a short time. Can't even guarantee we'd get better players in given our recent history.
We're not the only team playing midweek games with a new manager, why is this an excuse for him but not others?Those who keep saying how he has to coach players more, take a good look at the schedule of Manchester united. During the season and off* season, maybe ~5 years ago there was seriously time to coach during season seriously - no there isn't really, barely any even off season because due international football.
Coaching as you want to, is very time limited now.
Amorim‘s system is close to Ten Hag‘s actually, apart from the building out the back structure. No further apart than Slot and Klopp imo.
The players bought during Ten Hag are good on the ball.
Amorim is struggling with the same issues that Ten Hag struggled with: performance on the pitch. Scoring goals is our biggest issue (we need a top striker).
Both are great coaches and the players aren’t as bad as people say either.
Something is not clicking, so what you do is keep tweaking and changing, until it does.
Let‘s get some signings in this summer and see what happens.
