Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Cassidy said:
If I said I would before making the deal, and I said I needed Sporting control as part of the deal so I can do so, then yes I would be a person of honour who does what they say.
So like I said either they lied and you are right, or you are wrong and there is no need to you to make the excuse
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If that's what they said, then they lied. Don't shoot the messenger.
 
Danny said:
If he can find a way to get Hojlund in goalscoring positions then he may well prove how good a finisher he is. We don't create enough opportunities for our forwards and I think that can be attributed to the system and that it is more defensive than attacking.
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Agreed. I'd much rather to be missing chances than being defensive and slow which means creating no chances or crap ones.
 
The day is darkest before the dawn. The plan appears to be to stick with the 3-4-3 or 3-4-2-1 and establish who is capable of adpating to the system and who needs to go. I disagree with the idea that Amorim hasn't changed anything and has remained too rigid, because aside from sticking to the same formation, he has tried plenty of combinations of players within that setup.

There is rarely good value to be had in the Jauary transfer market, and while INEOS are certainly not perfect, i'd prefer we save our money for players we really want in the summer than splurging on an overpriced temporary fix now. We, as in the fans and INEOS, knew exactly what we were getting when we brought in Amorim, so we really have no other choice than to weather the storm and back him fully. The squad needs gutting but it's going to take a couple of years, so I would say we should all be prepared to suffer a little more in the short term.
 
Kayla40TS said:
Subs are not almost always like for like. Just two days ago he subbed a Hojlund and Zirkzee for Mainoo and Maz and reshuffled the team to move Amad to wing back. There are lots of other examples. Against FCSB his half time subs were Garnacho and Amad in for Malacia and Collyer.
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There definitely aren't lots of other examples. The FCSB game did come to mind as an example of a significant change and it made such a difference.

I couldn't watch the Palace game, but that sounds like he at least tried something if Zirk and Hojlund came on. Out of interest, how late was that? Were we mentally beaten by then? It clearly didn't work but I'm glad he tried.

If he's changing tact now then I'm glad. So often it's been Zirkzee in place of Hojlund, a defender for a defender late in the game etc.
 
Wolfbot said:
There definitely aren't lots of other examples. The FCSB game did come to mind as an example of a significant change and it made such a difference.

I couldn't watch the Palace game, but that sounds like he at least tried something if Zirk and Hojlund came on. Out of interest, how late was that? Were we mentally beaten by then? It clearly didn't work but I'm glad he tried.

If he's changing tact now then I'm glad. So often it's been Zirkzee in place of Hojlund, a defender for a defender late in the game etc.
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They came on way too late for me. Was clear it wasn't working for a solid 15-20 minutes.

They came on at 70 minutes.
 
Skills said:
I think the club to this day, still hasn't quite figured out how the transfermarket works in this day and age. It's a sellers market, year after year we get our trousers pulled down because we go in their desperately looking to solve our woes rather than looking for good opportunities.

It's how we've ended up with the likes of Antony. We as a club decided we desperately needed a RW (despite buying 3 in the previous 2 summer windows - Pellistri, Sancho & Amad). Because of this notion, we stupidly overpaid for what we perceived was the best option on the market - in reality, there wasn't any real good option available that summer, so why not just make do with what we've got? We just lack that sort of foresight as a club throughout.

What was available that summer, was a top class a CF prospect in Isak. But because we prioritised the RW position, we didn't even bother competing for him. Then we went back into the market looking for CFs when the market again hasn't been favourable - and that's how we've ended vastly overpaying for Hojlund.

If Chelsea used this logic, they don't end up with Cole Palmer - because they had other immediate needs, and had also somehow brought Nkunku for the same position. I'm not suggesting the way forward is to be as insane as Chelsea, but we need to realise that it's not a buyers market - but you need to strike when top talent is available.
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In my opinion, we did not buy Antony because we needed a RW. We bought Antony because we trusted ETH, and ETH believed that Antony is unstoppable.

Our main problem is that we have been trying to find "the next SAF", the perfect manager who will make all the decisions alone, and the rest of us will just have blind, unshakable trust on him. Unfortunately, it is really hard to find the next SAF, because such a person might not exist.
 
frostbite said:
In my opinion, we did not buy Antony because we needed a RW. We bought Antony because we trusted ETH, and ETH believed that Antony is unstoppable.

Our main problem is that we have been trying to find "the next SAF", the perfect manager who will make all the decisions alone, and the rest of us will just have blind, unshakable trust on him. Unfortunately, it is really hard to find the next SAF, because such a person might not exist.
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You argue we didn't need a RW? When Rashford, Sancho, Elanga all played best from the left side?

Think we had been dying for a left footed RW.
 
AjaxCunian said:
You argue we didn't need a RW? When Rashford, Sancho, Elanga all played best from the left side?

Think we had been dying for a left footed RW.
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Athletic reported Sancho told ten hag in training they bought the wrong player when he was asked to play RW.
 
Wolfbot said:
He won't be sacked or anywhere near it come the end of the season, regardless of position and rightly so. As a supporter though, I'll be bitterly disappointed if we're playing much the same football and getting the same results and performances a few more months down the line.

Your second paragraph is the bit I'm not sure about. If other teams can take to a new formation why are we so different?
Are we really saying that West Ham have a much better and more tactically astute squad than we do?

In my opinion we're a bit too quick to call out the players for being very low quality when they have largely been very good players elsewhere, hence us buying them in the first place.

I don't know the answer, I have theories but I'm not sure it's simply a player quality issue alone.
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What are your theories? I don’t think it’s to do with the quality of the players or the tactics etc, but the attitude of the players. Perhaps they are singing into a negative squad that is dragging them down. Who is to blame? I’m not sure. But other clubs have taken to different systems far better than we have. I think another issue is that the composition of the squad is poor.

This squad would suit La Liga better, but they’re playing against athletes every week, and players who go onto the pitch with real determination. We’re not matching that, and that’s an issue for me. I think this is why we get better performances against the bigger teams, because it sparks the nerves of the players and gets them up for it.
 
AjaxCunian said:
You argue we didn't need a RW? When Rashford, Sancho, Elanga all played best from the left side?

Think we had been dying for a left footed RW.
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Read it again please:

"In my opinion, we did not buy Antony because we needed a RW. We bought Antony because we trusted ETH, and ETH believed that Antony is unstoppable."
 
crossy1686 said:
In a different system? We should have just kept Ten Hag. I mean we signed all the players he said he needed to win games in his system, now we've fired him with players suited to his system and brought in a guy who has a totally different system.
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No. It finished 8th inspite of Ten Hag not because of him.
 
Shark said:
How many times has the term "season has been written off" been used on here throughout the past decade or so, you'd wonder. No other club of this stature operates like this but we're still doing it. In fact I can't think of any club that just casually writes off seasons as much as we do, and the fans just accepting it as normal.
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It's our version of the Liverpool fans ''Next year is our year lads''. Last season was written off by many (including the club) with the idea of persevering with Ten Hag ball as it would be beneficial long term ie this season.

Yet here we are again.
 
Rasmus_9 said:
I think people need to calm down with the comments implying he should walk. Amorim is well aware of where we are at the moment as a club and will have pinpointed the exact areas he needs reinforcements.

The most crucial signing in the first instance was a LWB as playing 3-4-3 relies heavily on width and pace. He will be happy that he now has a player that fits his profile to play there!

He clearly needs and wants better attackers but they seemingly were not available during this window. As he said himself, too many times previously we have panicked and bought players for extortionate prices that add no value in the long term and don’t fit with the long term plan.

He sees no future in Antony and Rashford so therefore has loaned them out with the view to selling them in the summer. A much better idea than them stinking up training and being a sub for the remainder. Those minutes may as well go to some youngsters like Obi, Fletcher or Mather to see if they have it in them.

The league is a write off- who cares if we finish 8th or 15th (barring the reduced prize money.) Our squad should still be good enough to challenge for the cups without the back ups.

It’s a long term game that hopefully we shall see the fruits of in the summer and at the start of next season. Trust the process!
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Great post. Finally some sense
 
Rasmus_9 said:
I think people need to calm down with the comments implying he should walk. Amorim is well aware of where we are at the moment as a club and will have pinpointed the exact areas he needs reinforcements.

The most crucial signing in the first instance was a LWB as playing 3-4-3 relies heavily on width and pace. He will be happy that he now has a player that fits his profile to play there!

He clearly needs and wants better attackers but they seemingly were not available during this window. As he said himself, too many times previously we have panicked and bought players for extortionate prices that add no value in the long term and don’t fit with the long term plan.

He sees no future in Antony and Rashford so therefore has loaned them out with the view to selling them in the summer. A much better idea than them stinking up training and being a sub for the remainder. Those minutes may as well go to some youngsters like Obi, Fletcher or Mather to see if they have it in them.

The league is a write off- who cares if we finish 8th or 15th (barring the reduced prize money.) Our squad should still be good enough to challenge for the cups without the back ups.

It’s a long term game that hopefully we shall see the fruits of in the summer and at the start of next season. Trust the process!
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I dont disagree with what you say. But...

SJR has already shown his ruthless side. He's sacked 25% of the workforce, cut charity money, legends money, sacked Ashworth who he chased for god knows how long.

If RA carries on as he is now, and I have no reason to believe that results will improve...he will be extremely lucky to see the summer window as manager.

Sooner or later doubts are going to creep in. Is he out of his depth? Does he have the required experience? Can we risk 200m on his formation if the results are so bad? One would expect to see some signs of improvement, yet things are undeniably much worse.

Anthony and Rashford would have gone regardless who is the manager. SJR clearly does not tolerate waste. In the same vain, if RA doesnt shape up, he will be next in line for the chop. Its cheaper to waste 12m on severance than 200m on transfer fees and be stuck with the players.
 
PlasticRed said:
I dont disagree with what you say. But...

SJR has already shown his ruthless side. He's sacked 25% of the workforce, cut charity money, legends money, sacked Ashworth who he chased for god knows how long.

If RA carries on as he is now, and I have no reason to believe that results will improve...he will be extremely lucky to see the summer window as manager.

Sooner or later doubts are going to creep in. Is he out of his depth? Does he have the required experience? Can we risk 200m on his formation if the results are so bad? One would expect to see some signs of improvement, yet things are undeniably much worse.

Anthony and Rashford would have gone regardless who is the manager. SJR clearly does not tolerate waste. In the same vain, if RA doesnt shape up, he will be next in line for the chop. Its cheaper to waste 12m on severance than 200m on transfer fees and be stuck with the players.
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He isn’t getting sacked before the summer.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'm not defending INEOS. I'm simply pointing out the constraints that exist due to the ownership structure and that will probably continue to hold us back until a full sale occurs.

Your point 2 on injecting funds goes back to my original point - there will be no capital injected unless the Glazers agree to also put their own capital in or have their stakes diluted.
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Ineos already increased their stake via investment since their partial takeover. It’s not completely off the table that they could put another couple hundred million in for another 2% or whatever.
 
Needham said:
He's a disrupter. The early chaotic stripe to his deviations require perception. He is the kind of guy who starts a start up merely to Kammy laughed when El Tel said he and Clough looked like a couple of. At this stage McTominay could Napoli the shit out of God I wish OT smelt less and still you'd Celtic in 1983 Celtic in 1984. Now had Martin Edward's first son had wings of kind of guy who starts a start up merely to Kammy laughed when El Tel said he and Clough looked like a couple of none of his would be hap. En. Ing. Give him two windows and if he hasn't chooked then whipbang Neville's Roy Keane nose snort.
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What the feck is this?
 
Posh Red said:
It won’t matter. He won’t get sacked before the summer.
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Wait till Rashford starts banging them in for villa. The pressure will ramp up a notch.

In fact Im calling it now. His days are numbered and hes dead man walking.
 
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He now has immunity until next season since management decided to bring in in no attackers despite losing players in that department. So this was an exercise in getting rid of deadwood. I am fine with that because he is doing a reset and wants to have time to coach the players properly in a style which is more sustainable and less dependent on individual flair. He will have pre-season to do so. We always look better when he has time to train the team. Also, young players tend to be more open to change and United have brought many of these in. I am optimistic.
 
PlasticRed said:
Wait till Rashford starts banging them in for villa. The pressure will ramp up a notch.

In fact Im calling it now. His days are numbered and hes dead man walking.
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Too early ya plastic newb.
He will be given the summer window to get in some players and ship many out. Unfortunately we will need to win the Europa League to really have a go this summer.
Next year I think he will just need an improvement. Anything under 10th place by Christmas, will put him under serious pressure though.
After that we will see. Anything is possible.
 
USREDEVIL said:
Too early ya plastic newb.
He will be given the summer window to get in some players and ship many out. Unfortunately we will need to win the Europa League to really have a go this summer.
Next year I think he will just need an improvement. Anything under 10th place by Christmas, will put him under serious pressure though.
After that we will see. Anything is possible.
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Tell me you are joking right yes he should get time but he needs to show improvement soon and also be braver in his team selections otherwise Even Summer might be bridge too far for him .
 
PlasticRed said:
Wait till Rashford starts banging them in for villa. The pressure will ramp up a notch.

In fact Im calling it now. His days are numbered and hes dead man walking.
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A very apt name you've chosen as a fan, he wouldn't have come in mid season after success at Braga and sporting. And had the board backing with with 0 funding and a crisis at the club to be sacked.

I have faith in Amorim and you can't give a manager who is implementing a new system one player and expect miracles.

You can't give a coach zero tools and expect a total turn around. It's going to get worse before it gets better and we need to get to the summer.
 
Cant score goals, cant win a home game. Important CB is injured.

May luck favor him until the end and of the season. I still fear for the worst.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I saw earlier that we have picked up less points from the 13 games under Amorim that we did from the 11 games played before he arrived which just proves how he has made us worse with his tactic that doesnt work and constantly changing team selections (has he ever selected the same XI in consecutive games) that see some players playing in different roles from game to game.
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He knows he was handed a terrible draw. He knows the guys are struggling without specific players that his system will require. He knew overly rotating every game will make them look worse than they already are and yet he keep making it harder by rotating the struggling backline every game for the sake of it. Its hampering momentum from game to game, destroying confidence.

It doesnt make sense to unsettle your center defence because you don't have specialist wingbacks. Keep some places constant and tweak the other. When you find yourself in a hole, common sense dictates you have to first stop digging it deeper.

He either knows something we all don't, or he is more incompetent then ETH and Ruud.

And no, he don't get a free pass in ruining whatever dignity the club is left with in the name of rebuild. His job should be finding a middle ground, we knew he needs time already. Get respectable results and build amd strengthen along the way. You can't call it a success when you kill the patient just because you removed the tumour. He is heading at relegation fight at this state. No other, i mean no other big club will tolerate this, 2 months into the job or not.
 
Even if we had gotten Potter (I was open to this) in, then same gutting and bloodletting would have still had to happen and younger players open to complying with systems put in place by the coach. Of course, all this effort will go to waste if we suddenly decide to become long ball counterttacking merchants. In which case, players like Rashford would thrive.
 
Nevilles.Wear.Prada said:
He knows he was handed a terrible draw. He knows the guys are struggling without specific players that his system will require. He knew overly rotating every game will make them look worse than they already are and yet he keep making it harder by rotating the struggling backline every game for the sake of it. Its hampering momentum from game to game, destroying confidence.

It doesnt make sense to unsettle your center defence because you don't have specialist wingbacks. Keep some places constant and tweak the other. When you find yourself in a hole, common sense dictates you have to first stop digging it deeper.

He either knows something we all don't, or he is more incompetent then ETH and Ruud.

And no, he don't get a free pass in ruining whatever dignity the club is left with in the name of rebuild. His job should be finding a middle ground, we knew he needs time already. Get respectable results and build amd strengthen along the way. You can't call it a success when you kill the patient just because you removed the tumour. He is heading at relegation fight at this state. No other, i mean no other big club will tolerate this, 2 months into the job or not.
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They wouldn't tolerate it unless they agreed to this sacrifice with eyes wide-open.
 
frostbite said:
Read it again please:

"In my opinion, we did not buy Antony because we needed a RW. We bought Antony because we trusted ETH, and ETH believed that Antony is unstoppable."
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We had interest in Antong long before Ten Hag came, so did PSG, Bayern and Arsenal. This is quite a simplistic way of thinking.
 
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