Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[NewGlory]

He's been here 3 months with a bang average team bereft of confidence.

The players performed just as badly under 3 managers in a row but you lot are convinced that the problem is one of the most promising young managers in Europe.

Nowhere near even beginning to doubt.

Truth. 100% agree

Look at Moyes at Everton, he hasnt signed any players to improve his starting line-up yet has got the awful squad he inherited playing good Football and winning games already.

When your team is playing as awfully as ours is and is being continously being embarrased at home by teams like Forest, Bournmouth, Brighton, Southampton, and Palace it is a much the fault of the manager as it os the players.

Ruben has had 4 months to train the squad to play his system and we dont really look any better at playing it than we did in the first game at Ipswich.

I "love" how you are conveniently forgetting that he also beat City, Liverpool, drew with Arsenal and has gotten us into top 8 of Europa League. With arguably the shittiest team. Only remembering bad, mate? Why?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Amorim's job is to improve results now...the future and building 'his' team is all good and well but right now he is failing. If he can't do anything about results now, then it really doesn't say much about his abilities.

Moyes has walked in to a team that's been on the verge of relegation for years and wins 3 out of 4 games with instant improvement and we see 'poor' teams punch above their weight all the time.

I realise the club is in a bad state and patience/time is something he needs to be given but he really isn't doing a good job on the pitch.

In fairness he seems a smart guy and I like the Rashford approach but it's not enough and he needs to start producing better results quickly.

Moyes also turned a team that were champions the previous season into a rabble. Everton is his level.

 

[hellhunter]

I think he should stay and get the players he wants and the formation he wants to play right and any talk of him being sacked is totally wrong.
He has a plan and need time to get it right.
If results carry on like this , out of every cup and near relegation, would it be a huge shock if he was sacked ? Personally I think it would, but stranger things have happened.
This is aimed at those that think he should be sacked.

I don't think many people actually want to see him sacked. I'm just allergic to the total carte blanche he's getting from some

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Amorim's job is to improve results now...the future and building 'his' team is all good and well but right now he is failing. If he can't do anything about results now, then it really doesn't say much about his abilities.

Moyes has walked in to a team that's been on the verge of relegation for years and wins 3 out of 4 games with instant improvement and we see 'poor' teams punch above their weight all the time.

I realise the club is in a bad state and patience/time is something he needs to be given but he really isn't doing a good job on the pitch.

In fairness he seems a smart guy and I like the Rashford approach but it's not enough and he needs to start producing better results quickly.

Totally agree. He needs to show that he can coach under suboptimal conditions. If he cannot implement new ideas during 6 months then I don't think he can do it over the summer. He won’t get 5 new players.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

I'm really hoping this isn't another system that requires the best players in the league.

 

[Bole Top]

just because his system worked in Portugal doesn't mean it will work in EPL. we have to be prepared for that outcome as well, regardless of how much time he gets in the end.

flawed or not, it's easier for system to work when you're one of the big 3 in Portugal, against skint peasant clubs like Boavista and Rio Ave. but United aren't Sporting in EPL, we aren't even Braga atm.

some EPL clubs are simply stronger. some have comparable squads overall but are still better coached. and even those weaker sides have players that can punish you, it's just the nature of the EPL where every club has the money to buy such players.

but even if he gets the players, it might still not work because it simply doesn't translate well enough to the EPL. to even stand a chance of turning this, backing him in the summer is a must. without $$$ I only see one outcome.

 

[VP89]

Literally all of those teams have stronger more athletic players than us.

Do you think we conceded our chances today due to a lack of athleticism? I'm keen to see the physical stats re. duels won today. I don't think that was the problem at all.

 

[soapythecat]

Next run of fixtures could work in our favour. Plenty of time on the training ground and time to further implement his ideas. New signings to bed in too. If we don’t pick us some results in the next 3 very winnable games, then I’ll start to worry about the long term prognosis for him. He needs a change in fortunes or he’s a goner. Good will from Inoes won’t run into all of next season.

 

[rockhopperpenguin21]

Look at Moyes at Everton, he hasnt signed any players to improve his starting line-up yet has got the awful squad he inherited playing good Football and winning games already.

When your team is playing as awfully as ours is and is being continously being embarrased at home by teams like Forest, Bournmouth, Brighton, Southampton, and Palace it is a much the fault of the manager as it os the players.

Ruben has had 4 months to train the squad to play his system and we dont really look any better at playing it than we did in the first game at Ipswich.

Maybe but we just keep going don't we. Knew it was a mistake to watch Palace at home. Got back in time to see United women score. Well purge the memory of earlier watching this game ...

 

[erikcred]

Next run of fixtures could work in our favour. Plenty of time on the training ground and time to further implement his ideas. New signings to bed in too. If we don’t pick us some results in the next 3 very winnable games, then I’ll start to worry about the long term prognosis for him. He needs a change in fortunes or he’s a goner. Good will from Inoes won’t run into all of next season.

That makes no sense considering how he's done in the winnable games so far. Why are the next three so special?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Look at Moyes at Everton, he hasnt signed any players to improve his starting line-up yet has got the awful squad he inherited playing good Football and winning games already.

When your team is playing as awfully as ours is and is being continously being embarrased at home by teams like Forest, Bournmouth, Brighton, Southampton, and Palace it is a much the fault of the manager as it os the players.

Ruben has had 4 months to train the squad to play his system and we dont really look any better at playing it than we did in the first game at Ipswich.

He has had four months, but rarely been able to train them because of the number of games. The teams that are surprisingly doing well this season are the ones who do not have any European football, if they do next season they might suffer for it, see Villa's performances after European games.

 

[bosnian_red]

Look at Moyes at Everton, he hasnt signed any players to improve his starting line-up yet has got the awful squad he inherited playing good Football and winning games already.

When your team is playing as awfully as ours is and is being continously being embarrased at home by teams like Forest, Bournmouth, Brighton, Southampton, and Palace it is a much the fault of the manager as it os the players.

Ruben has had 4 months to train the squad to play his system and we dont really look any better at playing it than we did in the first game at Ipswich.

When the same thing is happening with multiple managers, it's clearly not just Amorim. Ten hag built a side with no reliable scorers in it. It's going to be a struggle until we find a reliable source of goals so that the team can slowly build confidence

 

[Adamsk7]

just because his system worked in Portugal doesn't mean it will work in EPL. we have to be prepared for that outcome as well, regardless of how much time he gets in the end.

flawed or not, it's easier for system to work when you're one of the big 3 in Portugal, against skint peasant clubs like Boavista and Rio Ave. but United aren't Sporting in EPL, we aren't even Braga atm.

some EPL clubs are simply stronger. some have comparable squads overall but are still better coached. and even those weaker sides have players that can punish you, it's just the nature of the EPL where every club has the money to buy such players.

but even if he gets the players, it might still not work because it simply doesn't translate well enough to the EPL. to even stand a chance of turning this, backing him in the summer is a must. without $$$ I only see one outcome.

Well Palace just butchered us with the same system.
Systems are overrated. Good players who are tactically flexible is what we need. Amorim never died on a 3-4-3 hill at Sporting. Sometimes the wingbacks would be a 5, sometimes 3-5-3. Sometimes even one CB would come in to midfield and the wing backs would tuck in making a 4-3-3. The idea is that 3-4-3 is the base and the players are drilled enough to know when to move in to what formation.

 

[hellhunter]

Well Palace just butchered us with the same system.
Systems are overrated. Good players who are tactically flexible is what we need. Amorim never died on a 3-4-3 hill at Sporting. Sometimes the wingbacks would be a 5, sometimes 3-5-3. Sometimes even one CB would come in to midfield and the wing backs would tuck in making a 4-3-3. The idea is that 3-4-3 is the base and the players are drilled enough to know when to move in to what formation.

No wonder he looked good for Sporting

 

[roseguy64]

I thought we were moving away from this dumpster fire approach with the revamp from top to bottom but here we are again. Implementing a sysytem and buying players that are niche and wont translate well for the next regime.

And it's absolutely madness to do it when we have financial difficulties. Chelsea had to spend a whole load of money to do a rebuild and we're supposed to do it with what?
It makes no sense what INEOS did in firing Ashworth for his logical suggestion and going 180 for Amorim who is a terrible fit for the squad when we're limited in building a squad for him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

just because his system worked in Portugal doesn't mean it will work in EPL. we have to be prepared for that outcome as well, regardless of how much time he gets in the end.

flawed or not, it's easier for system to work when you're one of the big 3 in Portugal, against skint peasant clubs like Boavista and Rio Ave. but United aren't Sporting in EPL, we aren't even Braga atm.

some EPL clubs are simply stronger. some have comparable squads overall but are still better coached. and even those weaker sides have players that can punish you, it's just the nature of the EPL where every club has the money to buy such players.

but even if he gets the players, it might still not work because it simply doesn't translate well enough to the EPL. to even stand a chance of turning this, backing him in the summer is a must. without $$$ I only see one outcome.

It might not work, but without the players to fit the system we will not find out. I am not blaming Amorim if it doesn't work, I am blaming the club for picking someone whose system is so apparently rigid, with the right players it might not need to be so rigid. He might be able to adapt it in different ways but with the same formations but different personel to fit the opposition.

 

[Dannn411]

Next run of fixtures could work in our favour. Plenty of time on the training ground and time to further implement his ideas. New signings to bed in too. If we don’t pick us some results in the next 3 very winnable games, then I’ll start to worry about the long term prognosis for him. He needs a change in fortunes or he’s a goner. Good will from Inoes won’t run into all of next season.

No single game can be classified as "winnable" wirh this team right now.

 

[Moriarty]

His system is very basic - literally just based off graft and pressing.

Something a lot of our players aren't really good at. I used to wonder about the increasing role of the athlete in the game who was displacing the pure footballer.

 

[kouroux]

And it's absolutely madness to do it when we have financial difficulties. Chelsea had to spend a whole load of money to do a rebuild and we're supposed to do it with what?
It makes no sense what INEOS did in firing Ashworth for his logical suggestion and going 180 for Amorim who is a terrible fit for the squad when we're limited in building a squad for him.

When Ineos won the bid for the club, I died a little bit inside. I wanted to be optimistic but their first few months at the football side of the club have been a true calamity.
fecking disaster

 

[hellhunter]

When Ineos won the bid for the club, I died a little bit inside. I wanted to be optimistic but their first few months at the football side of the club have been a true calamity.
fecking disaster

Total clown show, agreed

 

[saik]

Lad remove your emotions. United aren’t a good team, we’ve been through many managers and it’s the same stuff. This season alone, our players couldn’t even bury a game with so many chances.

Our attackers are bad.
Our wingers can’t dribble past players in the PL.
Our defenders can’t move the ball quick and don’t like pressing.
Our midfield aren’t comfortable on the ball, can’t turn defence to offence.
Our keeper likes to make howlers.

It’s a big job, starting from mentality.

The emotion is because posters are here saying fans are spectacularly entitled because we expect a form better than 1 point per game otherwise I'm perfectly calm. Have anyone of you considered when literally the whole squad appear shit then maybe some of the blame goes to the coach as well? No? Then it's pointless debating.

I'm not saying we have title winning team but games at home to mid table and relegation threatened teams shouldn't be such an easy loss or that much struggle to win and that's on the coach.

I'm not advocating for sacking him rather I'm questioning him as he hasn't shown nothing so far that's worth persisting either. He needs to show something before the end of season that he deserves to be backed with transfers in the summer.

 

[kouroux]

Amorim is the quickest manager in our history to lose 5 home PL games

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Something a lot of our players aren't really good at. I used to wonder about the increasing role of the athlete in the game who was displacing the pure footballer.

When @tomaldinho1 said that I thought 'No bloody chance with this lot'.

 

[Marwood]

Look at Moyes at Everton, he hasnt signed any players to improve his starting line-up yet has got the awful squad he inherited playing good Football and winning games already.

When your team is playing as awfully as ours is and is being continously being embarrased at home by teams like Forest, Bournmouth, Brighton, Southampton, and Palace it is a much the fault of the manager as it os the players.

Ruben has had 4 months to train the squad to play his system and we dont really look any better at playing it than we did in the first game at Ipswich.

This gets said about every manager who has a decent start before dropping off dramatically.

It's usually that the previous manager was doing a bad job rather than the new guy being a miracle worker who can make players better overnight.

But there's nothing here Amorim is doing badly wrong. We can argue about a player here or there being selclected but it feels like we've tried every possible combination of playing talent.

The players are just not good enough and a terrible mixture of ages. Only recruitment can sort this now.

 

[witchtrials]

Regardless, this is the way they want to play.

Nope, they just decided Amorim was the shiniest new toy on the market.

 

[Marwood]

And it's absolutely madness to do it when we have financial difficulties. Chelsea had to spend a whole load of money to do a rebuild and we're supposed to do it with what?
It makes no sense what INEOS did in firing Ashworth for his logical suggestion and going 180 for Amorim who is a terrible fit for the squad when we're limited in building a squad for him.

The system is irrelevant. These guys aren't good enough. It needs an overhaul, needs that money spending, whatever formation we play.

Get a manager who plays 433. We still need a bunch of new players.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Nope, they just decided Amorim was the shiniest new toy on the market.

If you think about this about everything you’ll never get anywhere

 

[MikeUpNorth]

If you think about this about everything you’ll never get anywhere

Put it this way, if Amorim had turned down United, do you think they’d be limiting their search to managers who play 3-4-3 in Amorim’s style?

I think they’d have just gone for another young trendy coach regardless of formation.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

I think he's somewhat to blame for the recent run of results in the sense that the squad he's got is lacking in certain areas which makes it very difficult for his system to work properly. Chief among these is the wing-backs. A 3-4-3 just does not work properly if you don't have aggressive wing-backs who will stretch the opposition back-line, as the centre becomes too congested and it's easy for any competent backline to shutdown your attack. I think striker is the outright weakest area on our squad but that's not an Amorim problem, it's a John Murtough and Richard Arnold being absolutely mental problem compounded by the only poor signing INEOS have made. Hojlund isn't good enough to be a starting striker in the Premier League right now, and whilst I believe Zirkzee's better he's also an entirely different type of player and so doesn't functionally work as a replacement because you have to also change the entire dynamic of the attack. With this in mind, I think the biggest issue with Amorim as the coach is that we simply don't have (or haven't had) the requisite wing-backs to make his system workable.

The huge mitigating factor is that he was left an absolutely abysmal squad by Ten Hag, and the job he took on would've been exceedingly difficult for any manager. It's highly debatable whether it's truly desirable to bring in a manager who would work to build a style of football to suit this squad when there were so many question marks over whether it was really strong enough in the first place. To be honest, even if we'd stuck with Ten Hag, the manager who this squad was ostensibly built for, we'd still realistically need to add a left-back and a striker to make this squad even somewhat workable and that's the absolute minimum. I think his system would honestly have yielded slightly better results this season, but in the long-run we may well have been left worse off trying to cater to a squad that is fundamentally in a state of disrepair.

 

[soapythecat]

That makes no sense considering how he's done in the winnable games so far. Why are the next three so special?

Because they are teams with similar struggles. As I suggested, more training time could see a more cohesive, attacking team. I think they are winnable games unlike if we were playing the top 6.

 

[Toshey]

Imagine you are a Crystal Palace fan.

Which one of the Manchester United players would you want in your team?

Answer this honestly and you'll realise shitting on Amorim is absurd.

We have a bottom 10 squad of game raisers. Many fans feel they are entitled to winning because we are Manchester United.
We are not.
ETH era didn't solve any problems, instead created more.

 

[davidmichael]

I wish people would stop saying 3-4-3 as it is NOT 3-4-3 and very clearly 3-4-2-1 with two 10’s behind the striker instead of a 3-4-3 with two wide players supporting the striker and the difference is massive as it’s that lack of any width that’s currently our biggest on pitch problem.

Such a simple tactical tweak could change things as having Amad and Garnacho out wide with the option of coming in and wing backs running beyond them would be a lot more natural for everyone and natural width may help the strikers get chances as right now everything is horribly congested in field.

 

[kouroux]

I wish people would stop saying 3-4-3 as it is NOT 3-4-3 and very clearly 3-4-2-1 with two 10’s behind the striker instead of a 3-4-3 with two wide players supporting the striker and the difference is massive as it’s that lack of any width that’s currently our biggest on pitch problem.

Such a simple tactical tweak could change things as having Amad and Garnacho out wide with the option of coming in and wing backs running beyond them would be a lot more natural for everyone and natural width may help the strikers get chances as right now everything is horribly congested in field.

Garnacho plays more like a wide player than a 10

 

[UnitedSofa]

Put it this way, if Amorim had turned down United, do you think they’d be limiting their search to managers who play 3-4-3 in Amorim’s style?

I think they’d have just gone for another young trendy coach regardless of formation.

I honestly do

 

[saik]

Against the backdrop of the issues at the club, yes it is entitled and shows a poor understanding of how a rebuild works. Ultimately we are a mid-table side, who are currently mid-table. Our form since the turn of the year has actually been reasonably good. People are just sat here waiting to lose their minds whenever we lose a game. It's boring now.

I am not going to blindly defend him, but there are plenty of mitigating factors in his favour:

- INEOS have created a lot of negative feeling around the club.

- The players aren't really top 6 standard, and their confidence is very low. They come under massive amounts of pressure every week, more so than any other club.

- He came in at the worst time of the season, minimal training sessions and 3 games a week for the first 6 weeks or so.

- These players have been putting in the same old shite performances for the past several years, they are just a bad bunch.

- He's got a very clear and fairly unique tactical style, and he said he won't deviate from that. This was almost certainly made clear when he took the job.

That last point is the one criticism I would have, I think adaptability is important and all the best managers seem to be pretty fluid. I think you could argue he should have started with a regular 4231, tried to motivate the players a bit, and slowly transition to his system, but he has tried to explain the logic behind this.

Many argue ETH was the worst manager we've had since SAF and we only finished 8th and he had a lot of mitigating factors as well. The Sancho situation, Greenwood situation, Antony situation(allegations during the start of the season after which whatever little confidence he has completely nose dived) all the takeover saga, injury crisis. All that shouldn't absolve any blame from how ETH got us performing and he was rightfully sacked.

Amorim somehow has got us performing even worse when his job should be improving them. I agree coming in mid season is harder than coming in at the end of the season but plenty of other managers have come in mid season and have performed well. 1 point per game since he's joined is atrocious and I'm sure even he didn't think it would be this bad when he mentioned that storm would be coming. That's literally relegation form if it was over a season. Until it improves I don't know how it's being entitled to expect more.

 

[stepic]

I wish people would stop saying 3-4-3 as it is NOT 3-4-3 and very clearly 3-4-2-1 with two 10’s behind the striker instead of a 3-4-3 with two wide players supporting the striker and the difference is massive as it’s that lack of any width that’s currently our biggest on pitch problem.

Such a simple tactical tweak could change things as having Amad and Garnacho out wide with the option of coming in and wing backs running beyond them would be a lot more natural for everyone and natural width may help the strikers get chances as right now everything is horribly congested in field.

That is basically what happens, it’s just our wingbacks are both atrocious, and either do it without much success or not at all because they’re not attacking enough. The reason why those positions have been targeted as the first players to sign.

 

[witchtrials]

If you think about this about everything you’ll never get anywhere

I don't see any evidence that Ineos conducted some kind of review and concluded we should permanently commit to five at the back.

Did we exclusively scout 5-at-the-back managers? I don't remember that being a common factor.

 

[hellhunter]

I don't see any evidence that Ineos conducted some kind of review and concluded we should permanently commit to five at the back.

Did we exclusively scout 5-at-the-back managers? I don't remember that being a common factor.

It's absolutely obvious they went with a hyped and promising young manager without any regard for the system

 

[kouroux]

Put it this way, if Amorim had turned down United, do you think they’d be limiting their search to managers who play 3-4-3 in Amorim’s style?

I think they’d have just gone for another young trendy coach regardless of formation.

With the clowns at the helm ? Who knows. All the new guys, none of their previous teams played with a back 3 and and wingbacks

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

It's absolutely obvious they went with a hyped and promising young manager without any regard for the system

I've got to ask, though, which system should they have had in mind when hiring the new manager?

I entirely agree with people saying that Amorim's system is not the one to get the best out of this current squad, but I'm not sure I agree that it's even desirable to be hiring on that basis given that the current squad is awful and needs so much work done anyway.

As I pointed out earlier, no matter which manager you hired you'd be needing a left-back and a striker at an absolute minimum and probably quite a bit more on top of that before the side is anywhere near functional. The real issue is that whilst Murtough and Arnold were sat over Ten Hag, our transfer strategy was so piss-poor that we spent over £600 million on players with almost no improvement in the squad to show for it. What's really telling is that if you were to construct a best XI for us right now, even using the 4-2-3-1 system it was built to play, probably the only players signed under Murtough and Ten Hag's watch who'd be in it would be Onana and Licha, and it's not as though Onana is considered one of our star performers either. Ugarte, De Ligt and Mazraoui would be in there as well but all three were signed under INEOS.

Murtough spent hundreds of millions over the past five years and left us with arguably one or two players of any current value to show for it.