Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Widow said:
RA said that he wanted the players to learn how to play his system, and that's why he won't change it this season, that doesn't mean the defeats can be ignored.
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But what's the point in forcing these players to learn it if they won't be here as they aren't the fit for it

This is the part I don't get. There's a paradox here.

If these are terrible players that don't and won't fit the system then why not be pragmatic until the new Players are in.

If there won't be new players then what's the point anyway because these ones won't fit it?
 
The club is broke, so if the expectation is that a whole new squad is needed for the system to work, then that's not going to happen.
 
lilcurt said:
Headline: manager who recruited most of the team, does better than manager who plays different style and doesn't want most the squad.

Are we now a team that measures success on how close we are to top for?

Can we maybe consider playing the (not so) long game and give the new manager a preseason and summer window at least.
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You're now giving ETH credit to defend Amorrim? Good grief. ETH was on course to getting this bad before he was sacked. He did not do better than Amorrim, he was simply prevented from getting where Amorrim now is.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
He's made us such a dreadful watch. Genuinely think this is the worst I have ever seen us play.
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Supported Amorim from Day 1 and will continue to do so but this is the worst brand of football we have served up.
Under ETH it was dreadful but you could at least feel that we could score a goal but now it looks bleak.
 
lilcurt said:
Headline: manager who recruited most of the team, does better than manager who plays different style and doesn't want most the squad.

Are we now a team that measures success on how close we are to top for?

Can we maybe consider playing the (not so) long game and give the new manager a preseason and summer window at least.
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It's basically this. If Amorim gets a fully-supported summer transfer window and we're still playing like this in December, and be right there alongside the likes of Woziak, Hester, and Bondage1982 in calling for his head, but until that time, it makes no sense to me to get rid of him and start all over with the same group of wasters.
 
Why play with 5 defenders against Palace, Maz and Dalot have zero attacking impetus. Against this kind of opposition Amad should be at wingback atleast have one more player who can make something happen.
I know he doesn't have the right fit for the system, but so much defensive minded players puts pressure on us. God I can't wait for this season to come to an end.
 
waza7111 said:
Once he has brought in players in key positions like ST, CM, RWB, AM and GK, then I will judge him.

I'll give him another year at least no matter what happens between now and then.
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With what money? We're broke.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Not saying that it shouldn’t be negative. But people need to apply nuance.
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The nuance is that so far it hasn’t looked like a good appointment. And do we really want to give money to a manager who only plays one system? Liverpool turned him down for that exact reason, so I have no clue why we hired him when we already don’t have that much money to spend.
 
The Mitcher said:
You're now giving ETH credit to defend Amorrim? Good grief. ETH was on course to getting this bad before he was sacked. He did not do better than Amorrim, he was simply prevented from getting where Amorrim now is.
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Not sure you read that post right.
 
Long_Harry said:
But what's the point in forcing these players to learn it if they won't be here as they aren't the fit for it

This is the part I don't get. There's a paradox here.

If these are terrible players that don't and won't fit the system then why not be pragmatic until the new Players are in.

If there won't be new players then what's the point anyway because these ones won't fit it?
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God knows, it's just mental gymnastics from manager cultists.
 
lilcurt said:
Well said.

The revisionism here is crazy. People forget this squad was 13th before Amorim came, and that was for a manager who "played to their strengths" over a focused style of play.
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There’s no revisionism here, before he came we’d played:

11 games, 4 wins, 3 draws, 4 losses.
1.36 points per game.

(1.36 points over 24 games puts us 11th)

Ruben has:

13 matches, 4 wins, 2 draws, 7 losses.
1.07 points pers game

1.07 for the season would put us 16th, below Everton and hovering just above Wolves and relegation.
The only reason we’re aren’t looking at relegation is because Amorim wasn’t our coach for the first 11 games of the season.


The first manager got sacked because he was failing badly, we needed someone in to fix it but we’ve managed to get one who’d play 9 defenders if he could.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
so play a different player at right or left back and keep system identical? how should he change the system??
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He’s setting up us as the most defensive side in the league, literally, and lo and behold, we have no attacking threat. He sees this game after game yet changes nothing, in fact he’s vocal and braggy about his refusal to change anything. It’s unforgiveable.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Because he saw over the last couple of matches that Mainoo can create real moments of danger in the box when he isn't asked to defend too deep.

Neither of our strikers have done anything of note in a month so he probably wanted to give Mainoo a chance to just cause havoc. It didn't work after a couple of bright moments early on but I'd imagine that is why.
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I'd still think that playing up there requires more than just the ability to create moments of danger, and especially so for a player that hasn't played there in the first team and without someone in front of them to use as their foil. But alas, it's done now

I'd like him to use some of this flexibility and ingenuity elsewhere in the team - and potentially system
 
Some of the reactions here are pathetic. It’s been extremely predictable that we would continue to get rough results due to the squad.

We have no quality up front, very limited quality in midfield and wide areas, and a poor goalkeeper. Pure and simple. Criticize and nitpick selection all you want, but we aren’t winning games consistently without a better squad.
 
jem said:
Oh you are 100% right on that, are you? :lol: Then how do you explain this same core of players losing to teams like this regularly over the last 3-4 years, across the reigns of several managers?
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Another convenient lie with a smiley. Check how many of today's starting lineup made the first team 3-4 years ago.
 
jem said:
It's basically this. If Amorim gets a fully-supported summer transfer window and we're still playing like this in December, and be right there alongside the likes of Woziak, Hester, and Bondage1982 in calling for his head, but until that time, it makes no sense to me to get rid of him and start all over with the same group of wasters.
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What's a "fully supported transfer window" though? The money is gone. The days of massive squad overhauls and clearouts are over.
 
Jev said:
We’re not inconsistent. If we were inconsistent, that would be encouraging because it would mean there were glimpses of hope. We’re very consistent.
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Eh, we're very inconsistent.

Sometimes we move the ball around well, sometimes we get back into the ponderous 'false transitions ' , sometimes we are looking on top of the transitions other times we get pulled into a bad shape either by our wingbacks getting pulled back into deep into a back 5 or centrebacks getting stranded in midfield while the wingback is also high.

We're not attacking well at all consistently though, but like I say very young and not clinical at all
 
Long_Harry said:
But what's the point in forcing these players to learn it if they won't be here as they aren't the fit for it

This is the part I don't get. There's a paradox here.

If these are terrible players that don't and won't fit the system then why not be pragmatic until the new Players are in.

If there won't be new players then what's the point anyway because these ones won't fit it?
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That's close to my point. I understand why he wants to get the players ready for his system but most will agree that the majority won't be here to see this season's learning pay off, I don't think it's worth the defeats this year! I fell that RA could play a style that suits the lads more and start again with a full pre-season and if he's right about only knowing the one way to play, it's on the board to force him to take the job when he did.
 
Looking at things coldly, there's very little reason for optimism.

Those who believe Amorim will turn things around aren't basing it on anything other than hope. That in itself is a positive: Amorim is charismatic enough to convince people that it's a matter of when not if. However, if you are not bought in, there's little to hold onto.

Our coach and our players are mismatched. Our spending is constrained by FFP. There's questions over the decision making of our CEO and Technical Director. The football is awful and we are now losing at a rate that's untenable. From where does the uptick come?
 
It's a bag of shit, and everyone knows pass pass pass. 1 forward 3 backwards play it quick then stop and walk with it . Do not cross it into the box, play without a striker so teams can press you realy high as they know you won't go long to Amad or Garnacho that works .
Put 1 CM that has to try and receive the ball with 3 players around him ? Teams double up on Amad then don't use the etc space .
Well it's what they want it will come good .

I can tell people in 30 yrs time if I'm still here I was about when utd won big games etc etc.

I could well be in a nursing home dribbling better than This shower of shit before utd win a title .
 
I didn’t see Thursday’s match but I understand that the two key takeaways were that:

1. We looked much better with an attacking wingback, rather than two defensive ones;

2. Mainoo played really well in the 10 position.

Can anyone explain why neither of those key points were retained for the start of today’s match?
 
Drainy said:
Eh, we're very inconsistent.

Sometimes we move the ball around well, sometimes we get back into the ponderous 'false transitions ' , sometimes we are looking on top of the transitions other times we get pulled into a bad shape either by our wingbacks getting pulled back into deep into a back 5 or centrebacks getting stranded in midfield while the wingback his also high.

We're not attacking well at all consistently though, but like I say very young and not clinical at all
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We have the odd good attack but there’s no shape to our game, no sustained pressure, no control. It’s just weird, defensive, shapeless football with no visible style or identity.
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
You can't be serious honestly. Who the feck sacks manager after 3 months when brought in mid season
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I’m not saying I want him sacked, saying he’s in a sack worthy position atm. Pretty sure one of Bayern, Barca, Real or PSG have hired and fired managers in the space of a season before.

But I’m done holding the manager in some sort of high esteem, amazed there’s fans out there who still have this pedestal approach to all who come in and take on the impossible challenge.
 
TsuWave said:
I'd still think that playing up there requires more than just the ability to create moments of danger, and especially so for a player that hasn't played there in the first team and without someone in front of them to use as their foil. But alas, it's done now

I'd like him to use some of this flexibility and ingenuity elsewhere in the team - and potentially system
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I think you are right if you are looking for someone to lead the line permanently. But with the extreme level of underperformance from our 2 strikers it does make sense to try something like that.

I personally would have put Garnacho or Bruno in that position first but nothing to say they would have done any better tbf
 
sillwuka said:
Supported Amorim from Day 1 and will continue to do so but this is the worst brand of football we have served up.
Under ETH it was dreadful but you could at least feel that we could score a goal but now it looks bleak.
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Yeah, definitely not asking for a sack but we shouldnt be this bad. We're always excusing our managers but the set up has always been awful.
 
Horrible, horrible tactics. Loss is solely on the manager.

Mainoo is not a false 9. I'm willing to bet he has never played false 9 all his life. We got a player who played false 9 in a cup final and beat fecking man city, but no, he played mainoo.

Bruno was too deep. Why is Bruno having to bring the ball out of defence from the CBs?!

Every fan and his dog can tell you Dalot cannot play on the left, and Maz is NOT a RWB. Why keep playing them there? ZERO threats from WBs in a system which WBs are SUPPOSED to be the main attacking channels. WHY?

NO midfield, leaving only Ugarte. Palace's players ran through the whole length of the pitch leaving all our physically inferior players trailing in his wake. Isnt this what ETH did??
 
lilcurt said:
Headline: manager who recruited most of the team, does better than manager who plays different style and doesn't want most the squad.

Are we now a team that measures success on how close we are to top for?

Can we maybe consider playing the (not so) long game and give the new manager a preseason and summer window at least.
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You're moving the goalposts. On one side you want to point to the league table to justify that our quality is actually true to being miles off the top 4. Then when you're presented with context about how this is not the case you are deflecting on the different style, rather than acknowledging our quality is not as bad as the league table suggests.

I know the different style is a big issue but even despite this, Amorim will be the first one to admit that he has not been good enough with the results.
 
This is approaching LVG levels of crap, and fast too - three months in. Not only we're crap to watch but losing so often, against any shite team. How do you recover from that, I'm not sure. Good luck to Amorim, he's going to need it.

I'd say he's well on his way to not finish the season as our manager.
 
Jev said:
He’s setting up us as the most defensive side in the league, literally, and lo and behold, we have no attacking threat. He sees this game after game yet changes nothing, in fact he’s vocal and braggy about his refusal to change anything. It’s unforgiveable.
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well we have a winger who has moved to wing back coming in so should resolve the first defenders gripe overnight

I agree with you by the way. But I think the difference is you think the system needs to change, I think he needs to coach the system better (now or over time). His sporting team saw centre backs step into midfield, midfields join the attack and the initial formation was irrelevant. so he needs to get improving the performances via coaching.
 
JG3001 said:
I’m not saying I want him sacked, saying he’s in a sack worthy position atm. Pretty sure one of Bayern, Barca, Real or PSG have hired and fired managers in the space of a season before.

But I’m done holding the manager in some sort of high esteem, amazed there’s fans out there who still have this pedestal approach to all who come in and take on the impossible challenge.
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Chelsea hired and sacked Potter in the same season.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
We’ve also spent on:

Höjlund
Dalot
Amad
Yoro
Martinez
Ugarte


And a feck load of others “for the future” such as AWB, Lindelöf, Malacia. Our Zlatan-esque quick fixes as you call them have been amongst our best and I’d kill to have Lukaku back now.

The simple fact is, we are statistically absolutely MILES worse with the same set of players than we were under ETH. He’s doing a shit job, like it or lump it.
He might come good, but right now he’s stinking the place out in attempting on a weekly basis to play as few attacking players as possible. Give it 4 more weeks and I’d imagine we’ll have 9 defenders on the pitch.
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Lukaku was great for us, and I'd love to have other cheaper "quick fix" players like Cavani in the side now alongside some of the investment for the future. Our club has been horribly mismanaged, and part of why I'm more hopeful about Amorim rather than the previous carousel of Moyes/LVG/Mourinho/Ole/EtH is that Amorim is the first attempt at rebuilding this club under new footballing managment.

I agree he's doing a bad job right now, as are many of the players. You claim we are statistically miles worse now than under EtH - show don't tell. How are we worse? From my perspective, our results are no better nor worse in the league, and our results have been far better in Europe. Given the structural changes that Amorim is bringing to our style of play, it's expected that our performance (independent of results) will take a dip. Short term pain for what we hope to be long term gain.

I think it was wrong to play without a recognised striker today, but at the same time both Hojlund and Zirkzee haven't been setting the world alight either. Amorim's hands are tied. Give it 4 more weeks and I hope things are better on the pitch, since we have fewer games in February, which means more training time.

As for the bolded part - quit it with this disingenuous hyperbole and let's keep discussion in good faith.
 
#07 said:
Our coach and our players are mismatched. Our spending is constrained by FFP. There's questions over the decision making of our CEO and Technical Director. The football is awful and we are now losing at a rate that's untenable. From where does the uptick come?
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Reading between the lines, I believe this is why Ashworth was advocating for a transitional "steady the ship" manager with PL experience for the next few seasons, instead of a transformative one who would require significant investment that we're unable to commit to.

Of course, he lost that power struggle and was sacked for it.
 
bond19821982 said:
Another convenient lie with a smiley. Check how many of today's starting lineup made the first team 3-4 years ago.
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The smiley was at your ridiculous assertion that you are 100% right. Bruno, Dalot and Maguire have been consistent presences in those teams, and I daresay those 3 were most responsible for today's disaster-class.
 
Twelve years in, and some people are still peddling the same ol' "he needs his players" BS excuses.

If a manager needs a full squad of "his" players to show a glimpse of improvement, than that guy is a no manager to begi with.

After 4 months we should be seeing at least some semblance of order and improvement, so that we can focus on shortcomings and improve upon come summer...but under Amorim we appear as clueless as ever.
 
I really really want him to succeed, but whatever he's trying to do, particularly at home isn't working. If it's truly the players, promote some academy players at this point. This cannot continue.
 
Jev said:
We have the odd good attack but there’s no shape to our game, no sustained pressure, no control. It’s just weird, defensive, shapeless football with no visible style or identity.
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First 15 today is the style but with a direct left wingback, a wrong footed right wingback and a proper striker
 
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