"Not as defensive" was his specific point.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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I know I shouldn't as a Utd supporter but I actually feel sorry for the guy. Sporting looks like such a happy camp with players working their arses off for each other. He's in for a shock when he comes to the misery that is United and players that cant be arsed.
Good news.
It was an impressive win today, but United shouldn't play as a giant underdog vs the best teams.
We absolutely should until we have the quality to match them toe to toe. Heck Sir Alex's best teams would often be pragmatic, its how we enjoyed a bit more success in Europe during the later years of his tenure.
It's a great challenge for him, people who are great leaders are not concerned about these situations because they will back themselves to be able to change the situation. If he can't do that then he is not the right person for the club, maybe the right person doesn't exist, it will be extremely difficult to bring the club back to where it should be.
It certainly is a high risk high reward type career move for him. If he succeeds he'll have done what half a dozen or so managers (some with legendary reputations) have failed to do.
But on the other hand he might realise he's taken Sporting as far as he can take them. As good as they are now, he'll always contend with the reality of having his best players constantly poached by bigger clubs, and that no honeymoon period is sustainable at a club like that. I think Alonso is experiencing that at Leverkusen now. The only risk I feel he's taken is latching on to the opportunity now instead of waiting it out for a 'safer' move to a club like City, Madrid or Bayern. But again if he does return United to the ascendancy that only cements his legacy as being legendary.
I think as a manager, you should be able to adapt. I have always felt to become top top team, the team should be able to play both, transitional play and possession. This is why I dont like the term game model. It suggests only one way of playing.
When you go away from home, you want the team to be able to soak pressure. Going away to Anfield, there will be spells where you can't play your football and you have to get through 25 mins just digging in.
Typical caf then.
Indeed and I've had the same, pals who are fans of other teams saying I must be buzzing for him to start. Just curious why there is pessimism 'at this current moment in time'.
Me too. I think he will bring on players quite a lot over the next 12-18 months, and while that has been said in the past I'm really excited for this new start.
I agree in principle, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being stubborn with a system if it does yield you success more often than not. Klopp's Liverpool and all of Pep's teams have enjoyed a great degree of success sticking to one style of football.
I think looking back at the Ten Hag era, if he'd stubbornly decided to stick with his preferred system (like he'd done at Ajax) and had us progressively adapting to it instead of changing it up seemingly every week with nothing coherent to show for it, then he might still have been in the job.
You make it sound like it’s the same players at the club since the dawn of man. ETH changed 75% of the squad. That really should be enough to change this silly narrative. ETH’s coaching was either not up to scratch or he wasn’t clearly getting his ideas across. The fault lay with him.
Amorim by all accounts makes it simple to understand and players love him for it. Can’t wait
I agree but we did see Pep change in some games where he played 2 DM's and things like that to be more secure.
Ten Hag's issue was a few bad results and he went into survival mode... Ole players counter... no real growth.
He never truly believed in his principles, which was an issue. You can't tell a squad this is how you want to play.. train them during pre season for a style then 3 games in change it.
It sends the wrong message to players and they get confused.
That's not correct at all. If anything, Pep is one of the most adaptable managers of recent times. His City team of 17-18 plays nothing like the team this season. This is before even going to his Barca and Bayern teams which played totally differently as well.
This is a media driven narrative that Pep plays tiki taka possession football and Klopp plays high pressing football. Anyone who watches them regularly will know there's loads of variations to how they play and they never stuck to just one style of football.
I think he is coming into this job with his eyes open and like what he is saying. Good teams look to be the dominant side in games , obviously against high quality opposition sometimes a more measured approach is required.
I do think we will see more team cohesion pretty quickly which is more than welcome after the last couple of seasons. I remember in Klopps early tenure at Liverpool them losing a game which they completely and utterly dominated and the journalists afterwards asking him how he was going to change and his reply was along the lines of nothing because most other games they would have scored 5 playing that way. There will be bumps in the road but if the instruction is there the results will come and we won’t be left wondering how we beat lesser opposition after being mainly out played for 90 minutes.
It should be exciting times now as the players are capable of more than they are producing and as somebody mentioned earlier the sporting result against City will help with player buy in.
I do think we will see more team cohesion pretty quickly which is more than welcome after the last couple of seasons. I remember in Klopps early tenure at Liverpool them losing a game which they completely and utterly dominated and the journalists afterwards asking him how he was going to change and his reply was along the lines of nothing because most other games they would have scored 5 playing that way. There will be bumps in the road but if the instruction is there the results will come and we won’t be left wondering how we beat lesser opposition after being mainly out played for 90 minutes.
It should be exciting times now as the players are capable of more than they are producing and as somebody mentioned earlier the sporting result against City will help with player buy in.
Even being shared by our own fans as well.
Yeah but that’s why he’s here. If we were working our nuts off and winning football matches there’s no point hiring him.
I would be absolutely fuming had any of our rivals snapped him up.
Every member, quite correctly, has his/her point of view, but they are so wide and diverse, that Ruben Amorim will have to perform miracles from day one. For others, beating City last night shows he is the "new special one", and so on with the numerous differing perspectives on what he should and should not do. Would it not be beneficial to see what will be, will be (apologies to Doris Day). He is obviously an intelligent guy, who has transformed certain players through his own methods, thus Sporting have thrived, both in Portugal and in Europe. But haven't we been here before with the speculation of what Jose and Louis would do to transform our great club, and look where their input got us, signings such as Depay, Martial, de Maria, Pogba, Fred, Sanchez et al. ALL came with huge reputations, and I would argue that between them their impact on the pitch, was woeful, and I say, possibly generated to a hostility and tension within the squad. Therefore for now let's see how the new coach deals with the fractious elements in the dressing room, I'm not on the inside of the club, but surely most supporters can perceive all is far from "UNITED". Therefore, to me, it is sorting out the players individual strengths and weaknesses, mental as well as physical, that would be the priority. Perhaps within a few weeks his teamsheet will give us a clue to how we will play.
Yes but that's been a gradual evolution of his play style. What he doesn't do is desperately shuffle the deck and change it up from one game to the next when results don't go his way. That was something we've unfortunately witnessed with Erik, and also with Ole towards the tail end of his tenure (remember him randomly going with a back 3 at times as some sort of hail mary).
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Watched that whole City game against Sporting. I have no issue with the defensive tactics that Amorim used, to get a result against them. This Sporting team is nowhere near as good as Ten Hag’s Ajax teams were.
He could replicate this type of performance against the top three in PL, but will want to play more dominant against the rest. I think he will relish working with our squad.
I don’t think we immediately will start challenging for top four. I have a feeling a lot of fans here are setting themselves up for disappointment with their high expectations.
For me, I just want to see performances of individual players and the squad as a whole improve. That is not a low bar, because we have been trying to do that for two years and failed. So if Amorim manages that, I’m a happy camper.
He could replicate this type of performance against the top three in PL, but will want to play more dominant against the rest. I think he will relish working with our squad.
I don’t think we immediately will start challenging for top four. I have a feeling a lot of fans here are setting themselves up for disappointment with their high expectations.
For me, I just want to see performances of individual players and the squad as a whole improve. That is not a low bar, because we have been trying to do that for two years and failed. So if Amorim manages that, I’m a happy camper.
Indeed. The proof of the pudding will definitely be in the eating. Hard to get giddy about this.
100% correct IMO
Where have I seen this quote ?
But he's actually right.
But he's actually right.
This is why it is hard to get too giddy, I remember clearly this place when Ten Hag was appointed. We thought we are getting an elite coach, we will dominate games etc..
There are so many similarities to Amorim, the key difference is communication. However; that doesn't even make sense to me either because he brought in players he has worked with before so how come he could communicate and relay his message fine to them before and in England he couldn't?
Whilst I really want to be excited, at times I am, the PTSD from Ten Hag kicks in and knocks me back into place.
I’m a Sporting supporter now
He’s saying MU can’t play so defensively, as a principle. I think we have only done it a few times under Ten Hag: the 0-0 against Pool and a game against City come to mind.
I've been burned too many times to get excited about this. I'm optimistic about him coming but as a few others have said in the past there is absolutely no guarantee of what he's done translating to our situation. I need to see tangible results with my own eyes to start believing in the project again.
He will need time and he will get it I feel but there needs to be a big change in the way things are here first. Under ten hag we would pick out tiny positives from terrible results and try to read between the lines and see some progress that wasn't obvious. I'm not saying we need to be hammering everyone but the performances need to be good. We can't be letting teams batter us at home anymore and look like lambs to the slaughter, that is not enough
Fully behind amorim and I'm really hoping everything goes well, he's got alot to do.
He will need time and he will get it I feel but there needs to be a big change in the way things are here first. Under ten hag we would pick out tiny positives from terrible results and try to read between the lines and see some progress that wasn't obvious. I'm not saying we need to be hammering everyone but the performances need to be good. We can't be letting teams batter us at home anymore and look like lambs to the slaughter, that is not enough
Fully behind amorim and I'm really hoping everything goes well, he's got alot to do.
That's a very good sign and it's something that I said previously. I found a successful recipe in a particular context and he needs to find a recipe that works in a different context, maybe the recipe will be similar with some tweaks or it will be vastly different but it needs to fit the new context.
All spot on. I was/am guilty of it myself. Sometimes too much "empathy" with managers/people losing their jobs etc etc.
Before the new structure, I'd say it was even more difficult, and sometimes our excuses were actually valid. The manager had very little support elsewhere in the organisation - outside of "being backed", which they all were to reasonable levels.
Now hopefully the structure can make us reap the rewards. I'm all aboard the Amorim train and I'm sure we'll see the progress in a few months.
Thoughtful post yes
This is great. He’s saying everything right at the moment. He knows how massive of a club we are and he’ll want to dominate every single team we come against.
Ten Hag being a bust won’t prevent me from being excited about Amorim. Sometimes, some guys are just busts. It doesn't affect me recognising the good work someone else has done/is doing.
Not saying this necessarily of you guys, but I find the whole "b-but Ten Hag also" reasoning akin to the comically bad "we sacked managers before" stance some posters had and were using to justify sticking with the aforementioned bust.
The problem with your second sentence is that it is 100% on the manager. Just think about Klopp, he joined the same type of structure, tried to be a manager with a committee but then suggested to the board that it would be better for him and the club to move to a structure that includes a DOF and also proposed Edwards as a candidate based on their shared experience within the committee.
We made poor excuses in two ways, first we state that they don't have support as if they didn't sign as managers and that this type of structure doesn't include any technical support that's the definition of the job. And the second point isn't an excuse per say but we ignore the fact that nothing prevent a manager from building a structure that support him or requesting a particular structure but it takes a level of humility that none of the managers we hired had.
I don't think he's talking about a single game.
Was trying to say this more politely!
The problem is that it can snowball - more read it, presume it’s true, then propagate the myth.
It might not even be deliberate in many cases, but needs to be challenged sometimes to stop the place from going crazy!
He will be in shock when he sees the attitude of our primadonnas.
We are getting a totally diferent personality with Amorim. Unlike any of the managers we've had since SAF he's got charisma. (José lost his before he joined utd) Comes over very well in the media. Smiles a lot which I believe is well needed. Let's hope he can keep that smile on his face and guide us in the right direction. Obviously suits this guy to have a challenge as he turned down Liverpool and took the utd job. That's having cojones or maybe just nothing to lose.
Can we please stop sharing half a quote? He said United can't play as defensively as Sporting did.
This. Bad move for him. Also will drop out of the CL campaign.
Watch the full press conference. He was talking in context of one single game. He spoke how it was lucky and how they were pinned back for majority of the first half. And that they cannot take much conclusions from that game.
I'm genuinely looking forward to Amorim taking charge and am convinced that we will be playing 3-4-3 before long. Unlike many on here I think that we do have players who will readily adapt to this formation. In fact, the more I think about it, he has to impose his preferred style of play - not because he is stubbornly inflexible, but because we have not exactly flourished under all manner of systems under a range of managers.
A dysfunctional team (us) needs a reboot, but imagine, say, ETH going to Sporting and imposing a 4-2-3-1 on a team that is doing so well in their current system. It would be madness.
A dysfunctional team (us) needs a reboot, but imagine, say, ETH going to Sporting and imposing a 4-2-3-1 on a team that is doing so well in their current system. It would be madness.