Not really sure I agree our players are better. They are far more athletic and technical in many key areas.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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I don’t mind the system and approach, especially since it’s better suited for a 343 than it was Ten Hags 424 thing. But the key (as always) is having real athletes at the back and in midfield that can compress that space out of possession to help gain control. Our biggest issue in majority of those Ten Hag disasters was having a backline unable to step up and defend high and wide and midfielders that (already weren’t incredibly gifted physically) be forced to defend impossible amounts of pace.
He meant in the context of that one match. Sporting were defensive vs City and very lucky. Look at the highlights, City should have been up 3 within 20 minutes.
Key thing he said.
“United cannot play so defensively”
Pretty much his entire interview was about the win and scoreline vs City being misleading. He actually wasn’t happy with the performance, happy with the result.
I find that really encouraging for two reasons: 1) he is not overly emotional and getting carried away by such a big win like fans or even some managers like Ole who couldn't understand that anyone can win a one off game or kill a giant on a specific day but it's about looking at the level of performance and look for a sustainable way of playing because that's only way you can win consistently. and 2) which is related to the last part, is that he understands that we cannot play like that consistently. That's not because of aesthetics or principles but for pragmatic reasons. You cannot compete regularly at the top by devising overly defensive strategies where you rely so much on the opponent missing chances or your GK having a worldly. The best teams have control and play on the front foot the majority of the time. There are few exceptions of course but why should we look at imitating the exception when we have all the resources to aim for the best.
Better man than me
the amount of running they did in that City game to open them up , I'm not sure out current players will like it
That’s how Sporting plays in the championship. We have almost 70% of Ball possession and this season we have been scoring an average 3/4 goals per game with that strategy. With the same tactical setup/system.
He’s not a deffensive coach and the tactical system ain’t defensive as well. We just had to defend Way more in this game, and have had Way less ball possession in this game, for obvious reasons.
He’s always very careful in the press conferences, not allowing everyone get into “over-confidence mode”. If he wins by 4-0, he might comment on the chances the team missed on the Attack or some fluidness in the passes that wasn’t there.
Tonight was a great example of how well he can play vs a way stronger team than his. It’s not quite a great example of how Sporting used to play for the most part. Think about what you saw, that Collective way of defending and attacking, and that purposeness always there, and imagine it in a more dominant possession game - that’s how he works his teams for the most part.
Great comment. Pretty much accurate.
I would say also beside that work rate and running off the ball (which wasn’t there before - he real knows how to motivate, united and make the Players run for him and for his game proposal), the first touch of the players is essential. If you’re not an “elegant” player on those basics (ball reception, pass, control of the ball) it will be hard for you… cause the speed of the game and the ball circulation kind of requires that technicall class.
That is the impression I have about him and how Sporting play to be fair but it's nice to have it confirmed by you indeed. My comment was more about that it's a really good sign that he didn't play to the gallery and give in to emotions by lauding up such a big win. He actually did admit that there was luck involved and that he wasn't happy with the performance. Plenty of managers out there would just hail defensive solidity, mental strength, fight and all that stuff without acknowledging that they will never compete winning games like on a consistent basis. I thought it was brilliant of him to maintain a rational head in the midst of all that excitement.
That’s reassuring to hear. But
from I’ve heard the big three in Portugal tend to dominate the ball either way? That won’t be the case for him at United. I’m really hoping he’s someone who gets us to learn how to play in an opponents half and dominate as we really need that sort of progressive coach.
Cautious optimism is the way forward.
Having said that I expect to see an attempt to play with a cohesive style of play in the first 5 games under Amorim even if the results don’t follow. The board decided to write off this season the moment they kept ETH after the cup win. So no surprises if we don’t end up in the Top 6 this season.
Having said that I expect to see an attempt to play with a cohesive style of play in the first 5 games under Amorim even if the results don’t follow. The board decided to write off this season the moment they kept ETH after the cup win. So no surprises if we don’t end up in the Top 6 this season.
Apologies for my lack of knowledge of the board's specific structure, but who on our board is undertaking similar tasks as Hugo Viana? And what is his track record like?
Dan Ashworth is our equivalent. He played a big part in England's DNA project which led to a big improvement in the performance of the teams up and down the age groups. He was also part of Newcastle's good business after the Saudi buy out. The likes of Isak, Guimaraes etc were brought in. Prior to that he had more junior roles at Brighton and West Brom.
Regardless, he's highly thought of and far more experienced than the likes of Woodward and Arnold who we've had in these roles or the years we had nobody.
Funnily enough the contrast I also thought of was Ole.
Agree with what you said. Very good presser. Also the nuance with which he said it was very intelligent. He didn’t kill the joy or demotivate his players after they just beat City. But at the same time as the interview went on he let it be known that they could have easily lost.
Exactly. We all heard what a great communicator he is and he certainly comes across like one. Communication skills won't win us trophies but it certainly helps buy you time and win fans and players over which we desperately need if we are going to improve. Ten Hag was severely lacking in that area which I think was ultimately his undoing with the players and fans.
City could have scored 3-4 goals i nthe first 30 minutes if they were clinical. City had the possession but Sporting counters every time they got the ball and were more clinical in front of the goal.
He literally told the whole fanbase this and was slaughtered for it
"Couldn't understand" ?????
This is true but it was true for Ole and ETH as well. They tried to leave the pragmatic approach behind and evolve the team. It was the decision that made both of them lose their job eventually, although a lot of the fault lies with the club as well for not being able to come anywhere near to building them squads that can actually switch to a dominant style (especially in Ole's case), up until maybe now, as I believe now we have a good squad overall (our attack was better in Ole's final full season but that's it). But the reality is that every manager and head coach in the top 5 European leagues know that you can't get to 90-100 points in the PL with a significantly less dominant approach than your rivals. And obviously the PL is by far the most difficult competition to win in the world, even more difficult than the UCL I'd say, and it's been that way since the centurion City season 6 years ago.
I was talking specifically about Amorim's ability to keep a rational head and get swept away by the emotions of the game in the immediate aftermath. My point was that this shows a lot of security and clear thinking as opposed to getting the credit by using all the clichés managers use after a win like that. Ole might have wanted to change our style but I for once, don't think he had the coaching ability to do. I think his idea of doing it was to just buy players that can help him do it by individual quality alone. He and Ten Hag also lauded underdog like wins which may have been because he needed the good PR as his coaching ability was being questioned constantly but to me it doesn't send the right message to the team and fans, it sends mixed signals and makes your words ring hallow when you talk about moving to a more pro active style.
After a few matches, he will find out that.. some of our players cannot pass, cannot shoot on the target, cannot track back, cannot coach, cannot be benched and cannot be sold
Also, he will find out that.. we will have 1 no. penalty given when we have 10 times clear foul in opp. box..and penalty will be given all the time in our box with apology after the match..
Also, he will find out that.. we will have 1 no. penalty given when we have 10 times clear foul in opp. box..and penalty will be given all the time in our box with apology after the match..
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Bloody hell ten hags really done a number on us hasn't he. To convince people that sporting have a better squad than us. I don't even think our squad is that good but if ten hag had this sporting team in our league he'd 100% be in a relegation scrap. Obviously it's easy to see why some people think this way, as we've been so bad for so long, but I still believe our squad is decent (enough for top 4 anyway) and think we'll be fine under amorim. If we're still shite this season and next then I'll hold my hands up and say the players just obviously aren't that good, but until then I still think we just simply haven't had a very good manager since Sir Alex (or the right one at least)
missed important part of cannot runAfter a few matches, he will find out that.. some of our players cannot pass, cannot shoot on the target, cannot track back, cannot coach, cannot be benched and cannot be sold
Also, he will find out that.. we will have 1 no. penalty given when we have 10 times clear foul in opp. box..and penalty will be given all the time in our box with apology after the match..
Dan Ashworth, the man who sold Gyokeres for 1 million 5 years ago.
Running with and without the ball was exceptional. We don’t have a single midfielder that can run with the ballthe amount of running they did in that City game to open them up , I'm not sure out current players will like it
Can see him bringing up a few kids. He ain’t afraid to play youngsters. If the senior players don’t step up then they get kicked out of the starting 11.the amount of running they did in that City game to open them up , I'm not sure out current players will like it
Sounds pedantic but I hope he wouldn’t be as warm to the press in England
Mainoo can.
Mount too if he can stay fit. Although, that more and more is becoming a lost cause.
Great result for him yesterday. Nice to see that the players and team are still motivated to run for him even though he is leaving them in the middle of the season. Which is a good sign, imo. From the interviews he seems to have the charisma and the personality as well. Hopefully, tactically he'll find the transition from the Portuguese league to the premier league not too tough. We know that for every Jose that is successful, there are tens of Villas-Boas' that are a complete disaster. Fingers crossed, he'll turn out to be the former for us.
I feel for Sporting fans. You've shown so much class, especially on these forums. The decency through all this and sterling assessments provided over and over without any snark. Commendable. I wish you the best in the future.
Rashford improved a lot defensively lately and looks like he is running his socks off. Garnacho has the necessary speed and stamina and can be coached. Bruno always works a lot too. Hojlund can make a lot of effort too.
Just let see what will happen before making judgement on the players.
I wish he'd come here and feckin ace it (almost) right from the off, a la Van Persie.
chances are slim, but boy do we need him to do that.
chances are slim, but boy do we need him to do that.
Lots and name me 4 .
What young players have Spurs backed, please enlighten me.
Barcelona definitely.. the others not so much.
Agree with the bolded.
But the second part, I don't think INEOS is writing the season off, Amorim will have to get positive results immediately, I am not saying win all games from now till end of the season, but better performance levels and perhaps as much wins as possible and as less losses as possible, to climb up the table in both PL & EL.
I was watching it thinking this is night and day compared to us. Our players barely move off the ball, and everything is done at zombie pace. Sporting players are constantly moving off the ball and trying diagonal passes that opened city up, all at pace. It’s just in their dna at this point.the amount of running they did in that City game to open them up , I'm not sure out current players will like it
Rashford has shown a few performances lately, where his workrate was back to being average to slightly above average. "Running his socks off" is what Fred did, we shouldn't attribute that to players who do not do it. Rashford came from a below-average workrate level back to average in the last few games, thats it. Whether that'd be enough for Amorim we'll have to see.
But he got to the EL final, beating us. Also, like you say, he beat City well, so those were results and performances.. no way fans will be saying the same if we played well and lost 3-0 to City, got knocked out all cups early but had better performances?
I mean there is a very high likelyhood that performances will be better because they were so bad under Ten Hag, that dont mean that we are playing well.
Assuming he sticks to a similar system, the 343. Try doing a combined best 11 and you'll see. None of our players gets in the front 3 or wingback roles.
I could win the Dutch league with Ajax.
Let's stop defending EtH. I was in favour of hiring him at the time, seemed a gamble worth taking but he was utterly appalling and we've wasted three seasons.
I'd go as far as to say that as a coach, he was maybe one of the worst the PL has seen. Might seem a big statement...look at the sheer number of records he broke at United and the number of thrashings we took, nevermind the incomprehensible, crazy tactics and disgraceful in-game management.
I thought I clarified it.
I think it's important to see results and performances in individual matches. Show signs of how high our ceiling could be raised.
However, I don't care about the league position this season or whether we win EL (again, this season) because we are bound to be inconsistent while learning to play his style.
Absolutely ridiculous isn't it, the number of people who are on this forum daily who I presume watch a fair volume of football and yet haven't a clue what they're watching.
Do these people honestly believe that a single Sporting player, bar maybe Gyokeres would improve on the natural ability in our XI?
It's ALL about coaching...and coaching means implementing a viable system that the players understand and can execute.
EtH, and other Dutch managers for that matter, paralyse players with their ridiculously complex instructions and persistence in trying to make players something they are not - rather than just working out what they're good at and finding a way of promoting those qualities.
Spot on. Man for man, our squad should be majority stronger than that sporting squad. And those who refuse to buck up, put in the work should just be sidelined and shipped off.