Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Highfather_24 said:
Amorim is the one saying Rashford is not good enough in training, or atleast implying he doesnt work hard. He can not do that if he wants, like he's with Casemiro.

Why would you say that about a player you're trying to sell? You are literally giving other clubs reason not to give us money/lowball us.
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Nobody is asking him about Casemiro. He’s not coming up with the questions, the journalists are. In fact in the last presser he mentioned how Casemiro is sometimes getting selected but also not playing, in order to indicate that he is also not meeting the standards set by the club
 
Remember the geese said:
What would you like him to say? What excuse should Amorim have been using to hide Rashford's unprofessionalism over the last 6/7 weeks? Teams aren't silly. They know that Rashford is lacking in effort and focus. I'm glad that we have a manager who isn't afraid to say it how it is.
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Ehh, our last manager did the exact same schtick with Sancho. This is nothing new. He could have just said he is not available, and no more comments.

Complaining a player is lacking "pashun" will score you brownie points with fans. Sure. But its making it harder for us to offload our 350k unwanted player.

Its just dumb, and self sabotaging behaviour.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Ehh, our last manager did the exact same schtick with Sancho. This is nothing new. He could have just said he is not available, and no more comments.

Complaining a player is lacking "pashun" will score you brownie points with fans. Sure. But its making it harder for us to offload our 350k unwanted player.

Its just dumb, and self sabotaging behaviour.
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Disagree. What's making it hard to shift Rashford are a combination of him phoning it in for the last two years, his disgusting wages and his over-inflated ego. Nothing more to it.
 
romufc said:
Are you being dense on purpose? That was an interview from Rashford to Henry Winter... those were his own words, not some leak.

Its a bit silly to call out a club for years about culture and standards, we all have, when a manager comes in and sets standards... you are hurt because its Rashford who is suffering.

So a player saying he wants to leave doesn't devalue him but a manager saying he needs to meet standards does? where is the logic in that?

If he was serious about a new challenge, he would have got a move, he hasn't because of his wage demands, so it is quite clear, he is not interested in a football challenge. He wants to be paid to do the minimum.
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Your last paragraph seems to finally be getting it - well done. It’s the club who is desperate to sell him, not Rashford who is desperate to leave.
 
Doracle said:
Your last paragraph seems to finally be getting it - well done. It’s the club who is desperate to sell him, not Rashford who is desperate to leave.
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A player who comes out saying he is ready for a new challenge when a new manager is appointed, then is out partying midweek.

The club want him gone because he is unprofessional, lazy and not good for the club in the long run, they want to have players who are focused on football.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Ehh, our last manager did the exact same schtick with Sancho. This is nothing new. He could have just said he is not available, and no more comments.

Complaining a player is lacking "pashun" will score you brownie points with fans. Sure. But its making it harder for us to offload our 350k unwanted player.

Its just dumb, and self sabotaging behaviour.
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I think we are just further enough in the process of offloading him to feel confident it won't affect negotiations. Don't assume naivete. By all accounts he's already negotiating wages. We already shopped him and have a finite list of suitors who aren't relying on skysports headlines.

He's the one that put out the statement he wanted a new challenge. Anyone buying him was already banking on 'new environment, new motivation'.
 
romufc said:
A player who comes out saying he is ready for a new challenge when a new manager is appointed, then is out partying midweek.

The club want him gone because he is unprofessional, lazy and not good for the club in the long run, they want to have players who are focused on football.
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Great - so we are in agreement that the club’s aim is to sell him. I presume we also agree that it generally isn’t a good strategy to tell everyone how crap someone you are trying to sell is at every opportunity. Glad we’ve got there in the end.
 
Highfather_24 said:
I agree on all those factors. Amorim's latest comments make it even more harder imo.
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Amorim's comments have no bearing on how many suitors Rashford has...

He said he sets the culture, players need to meet the standards. Other clubs may have different standards.

Why are people acting as if clubs will look at every Amorim presser and be like omg Amorim said x, lets not sign him now.
 
Doracle said:
Great - so we are in agreement that the club’s aim is to sell him. I presume we also agree that it generally isn’t a good strategy to tell everyone how crap someone you are trying to sell is at every opportunity. Glad we’ve got there in the end.
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Yes we agree that both parties want to leave.

No, I dont agree with the second bit at all... saying players need to meet standards, is not saying he is crap. Do you just pick and chose what you read from the manager's press conference?

He also said... we need Rashford's talent, we are better team with him, looks like you ignored it as it doesn't suit your agenda.
 
Doracle said:
Great - so we are in agreement that the club’s aim is to sell him. I presume we also agree that it generally isn’t a good strategy to tell everyone how crap someone you are trying to sell is at every opportunity. Glad we’ve got there in the end.
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Amorims job isn’t to get the best price for Rashford, it is to demonstrate to the team what he requires from his players.
 
Doracle said:
Great - so we are in agreement that the club’s aim is to sell him. I presume we also agree that it generally isn’t a good strategy to tell everyone how crap someone you are trying to sell is at every opportunity. Glad we’ve got there in the end.
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You realise his performances for the last two years have been televised to a global audience?

I doubt Amorim’s comments have any effect on negotiations as everyone already knows we are desperate to get rid of him. It’s more likely that Amorim is trying to make sure Rashford is under no illusion that if he refuses offers he will have a way back into the team.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Amorim is the one saying Rashford is not good enough in training, or atleast implying he doesnt work hard. He can not do that if he wants, like he's with Casemiro.

Why would you say that about a player you're trying to sell? You are literally giving other clubs reason not to give us money/lowball us.
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I think anyone (bar a few people on here seemingly) watching Rashford in actual competitive matches over the last few years would understand that he probably wasn't a great trainer either. It would be beyond strange to have a player that was playing with 100% commitment in training and then phoned it in during matches in front of thousands of fans and millions of viewers. In that respect Amorim has surely not stated anything other than the blindly obvious.

In my opinion Amorim is being as clear as he can to make Rashford understand that he's not going to allow him to a do a Gareth Bale and sit on his massive paycheck running his contract down for the next few years, whilst jogging around the pitch and scoring the odd goal. The club cannot afford it, and Amorim cannot afford it.
 
Posters thinking Amorim gave away some top secret info about Rashford makes me laugh. Any well run club does their due diligence about players they’re looking to sign and will find out easily what he’s like to work with.

Hell, they could speak to any of our past coaches, who all apparently had issues with him, and find out within 5 minutes.

It’s just laughable that we still have fans defending players like Rashford. You couldn’t script it really. Then the same feckers would moan about player power, or ask why the club let them get away with it, as they have been for years, if nobody called them out on it. All the comments like “standards are in the gutter”.

Sometimes I think a lot of our fans deserve exactly what they’ve had these last 10 years. Fergie and his management of players showed us the way, it was wasted on our supporters.
 
GiveItToGi...nowait said:
You realise his performances for the last two years have been televised to a global audience?

I doubt Amorim’s comments have any effect on negotiations as everyone already knows we are desperate to get rid of him. It’s more likely that Amorim is trying to make sure Rashford is under no illusion that if he refuses offers he will have a way back into the team.
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And Amorim can’t give that message privately to Rashford?

Anyway, here’s his latest comment - “Our team should be so much better with Rashford. But he has to change. If he changes, we are more than welcome to put in a talent like Rashford and we need it.”. If the previous strategy was to make it clear to Rashford there’s no way back, what do you make of this latest comment?
 
romufc said:
Yes we agree that both parties want to leave.

No, I dont agree with the second bit at all... saying players need to meet standards, is not saying he is crap. Do you just pick and chose what you read from the manager's press conference?

He also said... we need Rashford's talent, we are better team with him, looks like you ignored it as it doesn't suit your agenda.
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I wouldn’t waste time with that poster who has defended Rashford, even after that night out in Belfast. He must be saddened that his boy Rashy has been dropped by Amorim, and that this coach dares to set standards that has now forced him to get out of his boyhood club.
 
Doracle said:
And Amorim can’t give that message privately to Rashford?

Anyway, here’s his latest comment - “Our team should be so much better with Rashford. But he has to change. If he changes, we are more than welcome to put in a talent like Rashford and we need it.”. If the previous strategy was to make it clear to Rashford there’s no way back, what do you make of this latest comment?
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Two things, firstly, do you think he didn't try to do it privately first?

And secondly, I don't know what point you are trying to make here? The strategy (if that's what it is) is to make it clear that 'there is no way back' unless Rashford radically changes his approach. That has always been the gist of what Amorim has said, I don't see that this latest comment differs whatsoever?
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Two things, firstly, do you think he didn't try to do it privately first?

And secondly, I don't know what point you are trying to make here? The strategy (if that's what it is) is to make it clear that 'there is no way back' unless Rashford radically changes his approach. That has always been the gist of what Amorim has said, I don't see that this latest comment differs whatsoever?
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Cool - you might want to explain that to the poster I was replying to who thinks that Amorim’s comments were all a carefully orchestrated plan to convince Rashford that he had no possible way to return to the team then.
 
-Supreme- said:
I wouldn’t waste time with that poster who has defended Rashford, even after that night out in Belfast. He must be saddened that his boy Rashy has been dropped by Amorim, and that this coach dares to set standards that has now forced him to get out of his boyhood club.
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My position is that the decision to sell Rashford is the correct one but that I’d like the club to benefit from it as much as possible. Thanks for your input though.
 
Doracle said:
Cool - you might want to explain that to the poster I was replying to who thinks that Amorim’s comments were all a carefully orchestrated plan to convince Rashford that he had no possible way to return to the team then.
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Are you being deliberately obtuse? Rashford spoke to the press 48 hours after being dropped for the City game and said he wanted to leave for a new challenge - that's the whole point! He clearly has no intention of changing, and therefore Amorim is showing him that he's not going to allow him to sit on his arse and run down his contract for 3 years.
 
-Supreme- said:
I wouldn’t waste time with that poster who has defended Rashford, even after that night out in Belfast. He must be saddened that his boy Rashy has been dropped by Amorim, and that this coach dares to set standards that has now forced him to get out of his boyhood club.
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Its just a shame that fans cant want the better of the club over a player.

Complain about dropping standards for years and when a manager sets the standard and the favourite player doesn't meet it, the manager is to blame for setting high standards.

Seriously, how can anyone every watch Rashford for the last 18 months not see that how unprofessional a footballer he is... does not track back at all, walks around when we don't have the ball.

Imagine a player doing that in a game, what do you think he is doing in training, more effort? Must be delusion for any fan to think that.

All Amorim is calling for is some more desire, fight in training.
 
Doracle said:
And Amorim can’t give that message privately to Rashford?

Anyway, here’s his latest comment - “Our team should be so much better with Rashford. But he has to change. If he changes, we are more than welcome to put in a talent like Rashford and we need it.”. If the previous strategy was to make it clear to Rashford there’s no way back, what do you make of this latest comment?
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He mostly likely has. If not him someone in the club would have told him of the clubs plan. Do you really believe a club that has been cost cutting would let an overpaid player who doesn't want to be here anymore and gets paid extremely high salary to run down his contract?

His latest comment is what he has been saying a bunch of times. Players who put in efforts get their chances. And Rashford is obviously talented. But even if we need his talent, his performances have been a disgrace. Don't know what's weird about that? that's what a new manager should do. But obviously we know the club doesn't want him anymore and expecting him to change is impossible.

So he didn't unnecessarily fall out with the player without any reason. And it's his job to ensure Rashford and the other players to know if the club has standards and you are expected to put in efforts. Id rather him make an example out of Rashford and draw the line going forward than risking dozen of other players get their mentality poisoned. The thing is we saw it with Lingard as well. But people said no, its just for fun, the reality is Lingard did affect Rashford to a certain extent.
 
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romufc said:
Its just a shame that fans cant want the better of the club over a player.

Complain about dropping standards for years and when a manager sets the standard and the favourite player doesn't meet it, the manager is to blame for setting high standards.

Seriously, how can anyone every watch Rashford for the last 18 months not see that how unprofessional a footballer he is... does not track back at all, walks around when we don't have the ball.

Imagine a player doing that in a game, what do you think he is doing in training, more effort? Must be delusion for any fan to think that.

All Amorim is calling for is some more desire, fight in training.
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Sadly, there are fans out there who place a player above the club. They blindly defend the player regardless of the situation which has become apparent with the current agenda against Amorim.
 
Doracle said:
And Amorim can’t give that message privately to Rashford?

Anyway, here’s his latest comment - “Our team should be so much better with Rashford. But he has to change. If he changes, we are more than welcome to put in a talent like Rashford and we need it.”. If the previous strategy was to make it clear to Rashford there’s no way back, what do you make of this latest comment?
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It's putting it on Rashford to change, but a leopard does not change his spots. Change or go.
 
Highfather_24 said:
That is plain delusional, I'm sorry. Super negative comment about a player has no bearing on his transfer worth? Sure.
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Transfer worth... no one even wants to loan him let along buy him for a permanent transfer.

The delusion if you thinking that there were 10 teams for Rashford and they all pulled out because of what Amorim said.
 
I think Amorims comments most likely do have some sort of impact on potential buyers / loan options for Rashford...... However, I think the benefit of setting a new level of standards, showing he's the boss and showing no player is bigger than the club far outweighs the potential financial hit of saving a couple of hundred grand a week over the next 4 months.

Fully behind Amorim on this one.
 
Amorim's words will have had feck all impact on Rashford's value. If he budges on his wages, he'll have plenty of suitors. fecking Ravel Morrison had suitors at a price, it's just that Rashford has this magical unsellable combination of being on £350k per week and being absolutely shite. You don't need a manager to say he doesn't train well to see that, the proof is in his application on the football pitch of which there is plenty.

If Rashford wants to actually move and play week in week out he could lower his wages to even £100k per week and he'd have a host of clubs lining up to pay him and take a chance. But he doesn't, he's contracted to 2028 on £350k. The only option is to write him off and buy him out of his contract and United are unlikely to do that too.

Imagine we'll see him here until at least the end of the season and even then it'll be tough to shift him.
 
Spark said:
Amorim's words will have had feck all impact on Rashford's value. If he budges on his wages, he'll have plenty of suitors. fecking Ravel Morrison had suitors at a price, it's just that Rashford has this magical unsellable combination of being on £350k per week and being absolutely shite. You don't need a manager to say he doesn't train well to see that, the proof is in his application on the football pitch of which there is plenty.

If Rashford wants to actually move and play week in week out he could lower his wages to even £100k per week and he'd have a host of clubs lining up to pay him and take a chance. But he doesn't, he's contracted to 2028 on £350k. The only option is to write him off and buy him out of his contract and United are unlikely to do that too.

Imagine we'll see him here until at least the end of the season and even then it'll be tough to shift him.
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Thank you. How people struggle to see this, beyond me really.

Its almost as if fans think that potential clubs watch Amorim's press conference to see what he says about a player. Most clubs have people they can ask anyway, they wont be looking at a presser to judge a player.

For instance, If AC Milan are interested, Zlatan would know all about Rashford and he could ask his around from his contacts rather than relying on a presser.

The bottom line fact is Rashford thinks he is better than he is, he struck gold with the contract he is on and I doubt if his contract was expiring this summer, anyone would pay more than 200k a week for him.

It reminds me a bit of Pogba where he felt United didn't value him and he wanted more than 300k and his best option was Juve for half the amount.
 
Highfather_24 said:
Amorim is the one saying Rashford is not good enough in training, or atleast implying he doesnt work hard. He can not do that if he wants, like he's with Casemiro.

Why would you say that about a player you're trying to sell? You are literally giving other clubs reason not to give us money/lowball us.
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Don't think it makes any difference what he says, clubs aren't stupid, they know what Rashford is like, there's been plenty of stories in the press about his escapades.
 
Doracle said:
And Amorim can’t give that message privately to Rashford?

Anyway, here’s his latest comment - “Our team should be so much better with Rashford. But he has to change. If he changes, we are more than welcome to put in a talent like Rashford and we need it.”. If the previous strategy was to make it clear to Rashford there’s no way back, what do you make of this latest comment?
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That's always been the message to rashford, nothing's changed.
 
Spark said:
Amorim's words will have had feck all impact on Rashford's value. If he budges on his wages, he'll have plenty of suitors. fecking Ravel Morrison had suitors at a price, it's just that Rashford has this magical unsellable combination of being on £350k per week and being absolutely shite. You don't need a manager to say he doesn't train well to see that, the proof is in his application on the football pitch of which there is plenty.

If Rashford wants to actually move and play week in week out he could lower his wages to even £100k per week and he'd have a host of clubs lining up to pay him and take a chance. But he doesn't, he's contracted to 2028 on £350k. The only option is to write him off and buy him out of his contract and United are unlikely to do that too.

Imagine we'll see him here until at least the end of the season and even then it'll be tough to shift him.
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I agree with all this, but clubs who wants to buy him for 30M may offer only 20M in summer because manager doesnt like him? which may irritate uncle Jim too.
 
romufc said:
The delusion if you thinking that there were 10 teams for Rashford and they all pulled out because of what Amorim said.
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That's not what I'm saying at all, that's strawmanning. What I'm saying is if a club was offering 20M for him, they will just try to get him for a loan or something, because our club is doing its best to paint Rashford as a unprofessional player. I do think he is everything Amorim says he is, I just dont think that should be talked about in pressers. Its self sabotaging.
 
Bobby_2024 said:
I agree with all this, but clubs who wants to buy him for 30M may offer only 20M in summer because manager doesnt like him? which may irritate uncle Jim too.
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It's impossible to say in that very specific imaginary scenario. However Amorim hasn't said anything publicly that isn't common knowledge - the amount of news stories about Rashford not training properly, turning up late, being benched and then having to apologise under previous managers it's utterly ridiculous to think that Amorim has somehow impacted on our ability to flog him.

Also on your example, United would offload him for feck all if they could as it saves them £350k a week for three years. The only person responsible for not selling Rashford is Rashford and it comes down to performances and wages. Shit and expensive.

If Amorim can use him as a way to set an example then it's extracting what remaining value Rashford has to the team as far as I can see it. Long may it continue.
 
Highfather_24 said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, that's strawmanning. What I'm saying is if a club was offering 20M for him, they will just try to get him for a loan or something, because our club is doing its best to paint Rashford as a unprofessional player. I do think he is everything Amorim says he is, I just dont think that should be talked about in pressers. Its self sabotaging.
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What do you think other clubs make of Rashford being left out of the squad for over a month, despite being fit and one of the highest-paid players?
 
Highfather_24 said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, that's strawmanning. What I'm saying is if a club was offering 20M for him, they will just try to get him for a loan or something, because our club is doing its best to paint Rashford as a unprofessional player. I do think he is everything Amorim says he is, I just dont think that should be talked about in pressers. Its self sabotaging.
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Okay, thats fine, has there been any loan offer.

The price has nothing to do with what is putting teams off...

Its Rashford himself, and that too multiple things.

1. His wage demands are too high, he rates himself higher than every club, no club wants to pay even 1/2.
2. His professionalism, he could do what Garnacho did, put his head down and work, get back in the team and get a move.
 
Highfather_24 said:
That's not what I'm saying at all, that's strawmanning. What I'm saying is if a club was offering 20M for him, they will just try to get him for a loan or something, because our club is doing its best to paint Rashford as a unprofessional player. I do think he is everything Amorim says he is, I just dont think that should be talked about in pressers. Its self sabotaging.
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I think you'll find that Rashford's done a pretty good job of that himself, and that was happening long before Amorin was on the scene, any club that is interested in signing him is well aware of his behaviour
 
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