Precisely
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
I think it’s high time someone called out our lazy underperforming yet overpaid players.
If Marcus is hurt by it then he should ask himself the question why Amorim has said those things and be more introspective to see if there is something he could do better.
We as a club don’t have the time, money or patience anymore to carry players who don’t want to be there or work hard.
If Marcus is hurt by it then he should ask himself the question why Amorim has said those things and be more introspective to see if there is something he could do better.
We as a club don’t have the time, money or patience anymore to carry players who don’t want to be there or work hard.
I know what he's saying and what his point is, but that message can be delivered in 100 different ways, and he put it in quite an insulting manner rather than saying "he hasn't trained to my standards yet. I treat everyone equally and if they don't meet my standards they aren't in the team". The 63 year old goalkeeping coach analogy was where he decided to cut him up with it.
Lord I hope not. That would be ultimate stupidity.
Well it's not is it. If a 63 year old came on as a sub and tried his best, it's not going to be a better value add than Rashford.
Its actually insane the other way, a professional footballer not actually training well, whilst all his team mates are training.
Its not an insult to call out someone who isn't doing what they are meant to be doing.
We have all seen Rashford on the pitch, he is insulting fans and team mates the way he plays.. selfishly.
Its like having a colleague who gets paid 2x more than you and comes in late... spends half the day talking and not doing work and there are no consequences, because if the manager calls him out, its an insult to him.
He's not talking literally.
When people say 'I'd rather jump off a bridge than..' they aren't making a promise, they are being hyperbolic.
He is emphasing that players have to train well, it's not an insult to Rashford beyond that he's not currently putting in the required effort and application so he doesn't get picked over the players who are being picked.
It's colourful but not insulting
I not saying Rashford has been professional. Rashford training below standards has got nothing to do with whether Amorim was insulting.
Was what Amorim said true about Rashford not training well? Yes. Did he insult him with the way he said it? Yes.
Again, they aren't mutually exclusive.
Oh dear just seen his comments on Rashford. After the "we're the worst team in history" gaffe from last week he's done it again.
And it doesn't matter if he's right about Rashford or you like him saying it. Every public comment by the manager of Manchester United should in some way benefit the club or at least not hurt its goals.
And if one of the clubs current goals is to offload Rashford for a decent fee. Then I don't see how comments questioning his professionalism are in any way conducive to that.
It's again naive from Amorim. The club need to get a handle on managers making public comments that aren't helpful.
And it doesn't matter if he's right about Rashford or you like him saying it. Every public comment by the manager of Manchester United should in some way benefit the club or at least not hurt its goals.
And if one of the clubs current goals is to offload Rashford for a decent fee. Then I don't see how comments questioning his professionalism are in any way conducive to that.
It's again naive from Amorim. The club need to get a handle on managers making public comments that aren't helpful.
In which case he exaggerated his point through an analogy which is why it's insulting toward the player. As I said the message could be delivered in so many ways and Amorim went pretty deep.
To be clear I fully agree with the way he said it and his wording. I wanted him to cut Rashford with his words.
I'm just not going to sit here and pretend it's not insulting toward Rashford.
What are you basing this on?
Sorry that's a typo, I should have said yes.
I mean "yes" to Amorim being probably right about Rashford not training well
It seems that this is genuinely his style, he's quite brazen and delivers the message in a way that some may not like (especially those that this message relates to).
Maybe this is what we need. I definitely prefer this to ETH's half bothered attempts at being a 'tough disciplinarian', and Ole's friendly attitude is also not conducive to long term success if team is packed with players that seem to be lacking motivation.
Yeah someone who knew his style in Portugal came on skysports and said this is definitely his style. But he's also extremely personable and likeable, though we are seeing more of his ruthlessness now becsuse of the state of the team. In time wel see more of a balance, I hope.
He dropped his best friend at casa pia for the same reason, but behind the scenes it was all ok and he's godfather to his son
I read his comments again and I don't think it is only his attitude in training he has a problem with. He is looking at every detail on and off the pitch. I don't know whats going on behind the scenes but he must be doing something which RA doesn't want to effect the other (probably younger) players.
There were like 3 following up question about rashford, so it was not like he came out and said it to make a statement at the first chance he got.
There were like 3 following up question about rashford, so it was not like he came out and said it to make a statement at the first chance he got.
I agree with you that what Amorim said is insulting towards Rashford and I really like the brutal honesty, these players aren't held to account too often, Amorim has ran out of ideas and resorted to straight up saying in public these players are shit (the no leaders one, worst team in the history, they are nervous, I'll play my 63yo GK coach ahead), the last one was obviously about Rashford but it is also a message to everyone.
VP89 on his agenda in this thread as per usual. I guess ETH being shown the door was too upsetting for him, that he now needs to analyse every sentence from RA and he the communication expert provide examples how to say it better.
@VP89
You intentionally skIpping what he'said.
.."It's the same for any player"..."I will put Vital before I put a player that doesn't give maximum"
Good if Rashford feels insulted. He can either put maximum, or ask for his contract to be terminated or ask Barcelona or any other club to have him.
@VP89
You intentionally skIpping what he'said.
.."It's the same for any player"..."I will put Vital before I put a player that doesn't give maximum"
Good if Rashford feels insulted. He can either put maximum, or ask for his contract to be terminated or ask Barcelona or any other club to have him.
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He was talking generally about the standards required, through the lens of a question about Rashford.
Could Rashford legitimately feel insulted? Yes, but is it actually insulting, no.
I'm sorry but if Rashford isn't doing what is asked of him then and it's being explained and he's still not responding then it's in the coaches gift to say you don't make the bench and I'll pick players who do what I'm asking and engage with my ideas.
Nothing wrong with his comments on Rashford. He's been here for over two months now it's not like we're in week two or three. He's given Rashford plenty of chances to get his shit together and if Rashford still hasn't trained well yet then he deserves to be called out publicly and it's no great loss either. Everyone knows it's a matter of time before he leaves. He even did an interview himself saying that he think it's time to go. Amorim is honest and has high standards, he's not going to stand for players pissing about and not putting effort in. And the argument that he shouldn't do it publicly because it can effect Rashford's transfer value is silly. He has no value. He's a player on over 300k a week that has been constantly left out of the first team squad for two months. When we shift him on it will likely be a loan with us still paying the majority of his wages then hopefully he does well enough in the loan spell to get himself a permanent move.
Excellent post,
I wonder how can fans cast a blind eye to Rashford's commitment over the years and still support him.
I would love to see an academy player perform well but I dont think he took the opportunity to become the best.
Spot on about Rashford, shame it's taken so long for someone to call him out properly.
With that said, I honestly cannot believe Rashfords attitude to all this, he's living the dream getting paid huge sums to play for the team he supports it's crazy.We can blame the people around him but ultimately it's upto him, given how poor Zirkzee and Hojlund have been, he'd be playing if he applied himself properly. Sadly it's modern football, too much money, believing his own hype and listening to people who are making money off the back of him.
Eventually he'll look back and regret it.
With that said, I honestly cannot believe Rashfords attitude to all this, he's living the dream getting paid huge sums to play for the team he supports it's crazy.We can blame the people around him but ultimately it's upto him, given how poor Zirkzee and Hojlund have been, he'd be playing if he applied himself properly. Sadly it's modern football, too much money, believing his own hype and listening to people who are making money off the back of him.
Eventually he'll look back and regret it.
The way he made his point was insulting. The broad point he made was not contraversial, but claiming a 63 year old trying his best would add better value than Rashford currently would be a harsh way to make the point.
I get the consensus he wants to narrate is that you have to train to your best level or he'd not be considered. He could have said he'd have an empty spot instead and it would have been a bit more palatable. But benchmarking a 63 year old
The way he made his point was insulting. The broad point he made was not contraversial, but claiming a 63 year old trying his best would add better value than Rashford currently would be a harsh way to make the point.
I get the consensus he wants to narrate is that you have to train to your best level or he'd not be considered. He could have said he'd have an empty spot instead and it would have been a bit more palatable. But benchmarking a 63 year old
He literally said the opposite.
He made a point of saying he wished he had a player like Rashford on the bench.
Hes not saying the 63 year old is better for winning a game, he's saying discipline and application are required to play in his team and he'd rather have a disadvantage in a game than give up on that ideal
exactly this!
Some iron discipline may be good for the club. But pushing down the valuation of a player we desperately need to sell for a good price is not what we need, given our financial situation.
I know the focus, from Amorims comments, has become solely Rashy but I don't think it's just him.
I think the comments are for Casemiro too.
Now I always liked Casemiro as a player, even before UTD. However since he signed for us I feel he hasn't really looked as if he is " working hard". He seems to coast through games .
I think him not playing recently is as big an issue as Rashy not playing. The obvious difference being he hasn't gone to the media.
I think the comments are for Casemiro too.
Now I always liked Casemiro as a player, even before UTD. However since he signed for us I feel he hasn't really looked as if he is " working hard". He seems to coast through games .
I think him not playing recently is as big an issue as Rashy not playing. The obvious difference being he hasn't gone to the media.
He said he'd rather take a 63 year old on his bench than a player who didn't train well.
Thats insulting to a professional footballer, even if it's a reflection of how lazy Rashford may or may not be.
I think it was a comment designed to challenge Rashford’s pride, from someone who might see it as a last resort and who has nothing to lose. It’s one of those things that could go either way. At worse, a player who wants to leave, gets on with that. At best, he says fcuk you to Amorim in the best way possible - by getting back into the team. He is in a place where conventional approaches aren’t working. I don’t see how this damages the team, which is what matters. It’ll blow over and we’ll see what Rashford is made of
If the players in the squad ( irrespective of ability ) are training and working hard.
The Biggest insult of all is anyone who does not make the effort.
Anyone can and should make an effort, and try to do the best they can.
It is an insult to his teammates, the fans and the club paying ridiculous wages.
If anyone has a right to be offended it is the above.
History is full of people who had the skills, but for whatever reason didn't make the most of them.
Life as a top player is relatively short, if you can't apply yourself for that relatively short time, you only
have yourself to blame.
Neville by his own admission was not the best RB around, but he more than made up for that with
the right attitude, lots of effort and did the best he could, and that is why he played regularly for United and England.
The Biggest insult of all is anyone who does not make the effort.
Anyone can and should make an effort, and try to do the best they can.
It is an insult to his teammates, the fans and the club paying ridiculous wages.
If anyone has a right to be offended it is the above.
History is full of people who had the skills, but for whatever reason didn't make the most of them.
Life as a top player is relatively short, if you can't apply yourself for that relatively short time, you only
have yourself to blame.
Neville by his own admission was not the best RB around, but he more than made up for that with
the right attitude, lots of effort and did the best he could, and that is why he played regularly for United and England.
Exactly this. I dont understand how calling someone out for their negligence at their job is insulting to them, forgetting the other 25 players who are doing their bit.
It just shows the sort of overprotection for Rashford in some areas of the fan base.
Its also so obvious in games, what makes any fan think if a player will not try in a competitive game will try in training, he will be much worse.
Imagine Amorim training the drill where everyone loses the ball and rushes back, whilst Rashford walks back like he is on a beach, what message does that sent to the players if you let one player off?
I don't think they are clangers – he wanted to say what he did because am sure he felt the team/player needed to hear it. He knew what kind of questions he was going to be asked.
And don't you think he has tried telling Rashford behind closed doors? Don't you think every manager who has managed him has tried telling him? I remember this quote from The Telegraph: “You'd have what you felt was a really good conversation with him, but then the next day it was like it had gone in one ear and out the other,” one source commented."
The only thing that has motivated Rashford to apply himself in a United shirt has been when trying to get a new contract.
He said exactly that with regard to Rashford and Garnacho before Christmas when he dropped them from the squad.
Garnacho responded and evidently worked harder and displayed a better attitude and mindset and is back in the team.
Marcus evidently didn't and hasn't.
People are entitled to feel whatever way they want about it, but the intention isn't to insult.
I don't know, obviously but I'm not even convinced it's necessarily about being lazy. My intuition is saying it's focus and application of new ideas vs what is natural and maybe Rashford wants to play his natural game and it's now at a point where they both want to part ways.
Exactly, there is evidence that this is not personal. He has set a standard, which we all wanted at this club, when players dont meet it they dont play, that is simple.
Garnacho took it on the chin, trained and is back in the team. Rashford will never put his head down and work, the amount of preferential treatment he has had from previous managers suggests he thinks he is something special.
I dont care for the intention, that's not the dispute. It's the wording. He could have worded his intention in 100 different ways but chose to be insulting with it.
Again I don't have an issue with it, I welcome it. But it was an insulting way to make his point.
You don't think that is what he is trying to do?
The comment about the team was designed to do that. I'm sure Amorim has tried many different approaches with Rashford (as our previous managers would also have done), but none of them have worked. I figure this is something else he is trying to get through to Rashford.
I thin it's naive to think that other teams' managers are not aware of why Rashford is not even in the squad. Not sure what lies you would suggest Amorim makes up to explain Rashford's exclusion from each squad, if not questioning his application and effort is permitted? You can say keep it behind closed doors, but that evidently doesn't work to have any effect on Rashford. There would also be questions every single press conference as to when he will be back in the squad. And there will be endless speculation as to why he's not present. All of which would create more noise than simply saying it as it is.
I have no issue with him saying it. But I do have an issue with him saying it in public. Say it to the player's face behind closed doors and move on. In public he must present a united front and create a siege mentality like Fergie did.
Amorim has said that is about effort and also how the player conducts himself:
“Next week, next game, new life, they are fighting for their places but for me it’s important, the performance in training, the performance in game, the way you dress, the way you eat, the way you engage with teammates, the way you push your teammates, everything is important when we want to change a lot of things."
I'm certain he has said it to his face.
But where do you move on to if it has zero effect? Do you just give up on that player? Does he continue to train with the team whilst putting in less effort than everyone else? Do you want other players to be around someone like that?
Fergie was the master of the siege mentality – but I think it is a completely different situation – and where the team is is very different. Fergie used it as a motivational tool to highlight anything he felt was being done to try and stop his team winning. That works when you have a high-performing team that is winning most of the time, and it will force them to focus and deliver against their own high standards that have already been established. The current team is not in that place.
Amorim has said he is trying to change the culture in the club. And, just as all our fans have said for years, we have some players who are not putting in an acceptable level of effort. To create a siege mentality in this instance, would in a sense be protecting and shielding players from criticism. But they need to hear it because the criticism is valid.
You are not half-tedious.