Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

VP89 said:
Stop brushing this on ETH. He has players capable of not being slapped up by Brighton, Bournemouth, Forrest, Wolves, Newcastle all at home and to not need individual brilliance from Amad to scrape through Southampton.

He needs to be better than this even when we apply the context that he's only been here 3 months. He said this himself when he joined, he will need time but you win time by winning games.
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What are you talking about ?

We got slapped up by Brighton on multiple occasions under Ten Hag. Same for Bournemouth.

ETH brought in absolute garbage into an already poor team. No manager in PL history ever bought so many of his ex players than Ten Hag did (or players that he had a connection to) yet he still couldn't get a tune out of them.

That is exactly why he is no longer at MUFC.
 
MyDevil said:
Agree. Our problem is the WBs do not make the runs when we have the balls. More often the ball gets passed side way or back to Onana. All 5 defenders stay still at the back and just hope the 3 attackers find some space to receive. They don't take the risk and open up the space so Zirkzee, Bruno and Amad can have less defenders to deal with. Amad as a WB will do those runs but then we need him as no 10 also. Maz and Dalot just don't know how to operate as a WB. So frustrating to watch now.
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Maybe going forward? But im seeing the WBs play in a back 5 for most of the game and we still conceded goals.

I dont see how the formation cost us any of the goals today.
 
gaffs said:
What are you talking about ?

We got slapped up by Brighton on multiple occasions under Ten Hag. Same for Bournemouth.

ETH brought in absolute garbage into an already poor team. No manager in PL history ever bought so many of his ex players than Ten Hag did (or players that he had a connection to) yet he still couldn't get a tune out of them.

That is exactly why he is no longer at MUFC.
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Harry Redknapp says 'ello.
 
Skills said:
The problem is that this is literally his second job. The guys in his 30s - this is all he knows.
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The issue is that these players stink.....

Hojlund and Zirkzee wont get you goals. Garnacho patchy. Antony useless. Rashford awol.

Mainoo and Ugarte dont seem to have the stamina to play back to back games. Casemiro and Eriksen are soccer aid players there days. Bruno is jekyll and hyde.

Are defenders cant defend at times - see Mazraoui today.

Are keeper is a clown.

And most of them are suffering from PTSD from all the poor performances over the past 3 years or so.

So from front to back, what does Amorim have to work with?

Same issues at under Ten Hag. When we are expected to take the initiative in games, we cant do it. Backs against the wall, we have a chance.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Harry Redknapp says 'ello.
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Yeah, he signed a few Pompy old boys at Spurs.

But you know, at least they were Prem proven, like Defoe, Crouch etc.

Ten Hag brought his old boys from Holland. Including Mount, who he loved from his loan days at Vitesse.

Overpaid for Hojlund which helped Ten Hag's agents %, who is also Hojlunds agent. As well as having ten Hags brother work for the same agency.

He screwed us over will all the crap he loaded us with.
 
Not sure why people are comparing ETHs first season here with Amorims. ETH had a Summer window and full pre season.

Amorim joined directly before the insane winter period and so far has zero signings. We won't see what Amorim is capable of until midway through next season.

If anyone's seriously judging him now then we may as well have not bothered signing any Manager and kept ETH till the Summer so we could give the new boss a fair crack at the whip.

It's not Amorims fault that we fecked about with first backing ETH and then sacking him at the worst possible moment in the Season. It's just clear indication of how much we suck at football.
 
Woziak said:
We have West Ham, Arsenal, Man City, Palace, Ipswich, Villa, Wolves, that’s 7 home games and we will need to win 3 plus 2 away games from the remaining 9 to put to bed relegation talk.

We should beat West Ham, Ipswich and maybe Wolves and hopefully draw 2 lose 2 of the rest of home games. He desperately needs to get a grip in the EPL That’s 11 points and a huge upgrade on his current 1 point per PL game.

He will be lucky to win 2 from the away matches, Draw 3 and lose 4 which would be 9 points from 9 away games.

That would be 46 points from 38 matches and for me he should be sacked, if we can’t get him the players he needs. 27 PL matches 31 points is simply untenable!

Berrada should go with him as well for bringing him in and demanding 3421/343 system. Someone needs to say enough is enough, the club is becoming the laughing stock of the PL and the minimum points target to coach the team next year is 24 points from 16 pl matches or 1.5 points per game, the fact that he didn’t even know that his team won 3 PL Games from 10 Not 2 which he stated is a worry in its own context!

He says it’s maybe the worst United team in history, does that mean that he’s one of the worst coaches too?
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They sacked the guy who saw this coming in Ashworth
 
Woziak said:
Berrada should go with him as well for bringing him in and demanding 3421/343 system. Someone needs to say enough is enough, the club is becoming the laughing stock of the PL and the minimum points target to coach the team next year is 24 points from 16 pl matches or 1.5 points per game, the fact that he didn’t even know that his team won 3 PL Games from 10 Not 2 which he stated is a worry in its own context!
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He forgot about the win against City because they are not a real club.
 
I think bringing in Amorim looks like a mistake now. We don't have the players for him to play his system and we don't have the funds or the room under PSR for another rebuilding project straight off the back of one under Ten Hag. If I'm Dan Ashworth I'm probably feeling pretty vindicated right now.
 
I'm genuinely gonna take a week and go through, in detail, Amorim’s first 20 games at Sporting. I wanna see the setup, players used, how the players adapted, and how the turning point came about. Just to compare with the shower of shit he's being asked to do the same with here. It's not his fault, same as it wasn't Ten Hags, or Oles, or Jose's. Only for my own curiosity like.

This club is a cess pit, its nothing even remotely close to the club any of us fell in love with. Its a cash cow now for a load of dickheads that couldn't give a shit about our history, the fans, the future of the Manchester United name, any of it. I don't even want to watch the games anymore, but I do every week cause its my club. What's the actual point though.

I get its just a sport and it doesn't hold any actual significance in our day to day life, but feck me, its hard to switch off and ignore it. Getting wound up over a bunch of millionaires who couldn't give 2 shits about something you've lived since you were 6 years old. It's not actually worth it anymore is it.
 
Is there anything Amorim can do with these players to improve the results? I understand they’re not really “his players” but there’s gotta be a way to get more out of these guys? The results so far are atrocious :(
 
Wrecking ralf said:
I'm genuinely gonna take a week and go through, in detail, Amorim’s first 20 games at Sporting. I wanna see the setup, players used, how the players adapted, and how the turning point came about. Just to compare with the shower of shit he's being asked to do the same with here. It's not his fault, same as it wasn't Ten Hags, or Oles, or Jose's. Only for my own curiosity like.

This club is a cess pit, its nothing even remotely close to the club any of us fell in love with. Its a cash cow now for a load of dickheads that couldn't give a shit about our history, the fans, the future of the Manchester United name, any of it. I don't even want to watch the games anymore, but I do every week cause its my club. What's the actual point though.

I get its just a sport and it doesn't hold any actual significance in our day to day life, but feck me, its hard to switch off and ignore it. Getting wound up over a bunch of millionaires who couldn't give 2 shits about something you've lived since you were 6 years old. It's not actually worth it anymore is it.
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Difficult isn’t it, switching off from something you love. Be interested to hear your thoughts when you’ve analysed Ruben’s early days at Sporting.
 
MyDevil said:
Agree. Our problem is the WBs do not make the runs when we have the balls. More often the ball gets passed side way or back to Onana. All 5 defenders stay still at the back and just hope the 3 attackers find some space to receive. They don't take the risk and open up the space so Zirkzee, Bruno and Amad can have less defenders to deal with. Amad as a WB will do those runs but then we need him as no 10 also. Maz and Dalot just don't know how to operate as a WB. So frustrating to watch now.
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Yet Dalot got into some great areas and beat his man, then found zero options to play the ball to in the box. Our issues are far deeper than the wingback positions, we have too many players who do not hold their positions and give the ball away cheaply and frequently.
 
Rule number one to buy yourself time & money as a manager is to improve the current players & results.
We’re stupid as feck if we once again buy a manager all of his own little toys to eventually find out he aint good enough.
I’m not at all convinced the 5 at that back shite will ever cut it week in week out in the Premier League so giving Amorim 2 “free” years and buying selling to suit this system would be beyond idiotic.

It’s a shame because if he showed some flexibility he might actually have a system for the big games already, which is his favoured
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Rule number one to buy yourself time & money as a manager is to improve the current players & results.
We’re stupid as feck if we once again buy a manager all of his own little toys to eventually find out he aint good enough.
I’m not at all convinced the 5 at that back shite will ever cut it week in week out in the Premier League so giving Amorim 2 “free” years and buying selling to suit this system would be beyond idiotic.

It’s a shame because if he showed some flexibility he might actually have a system for the big games already, which is his favoured
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We don't have the money, so I don't think that'll be happening.

Whether he likes it or not, he'll mostly be told to work with what's he's got.
 
iKnowNothing said:
Is there anything Amorim can do with these players to improve the results? I understand they’re not really “his players” but there’s gotta be a way to get more out of these guys? The results so far are atrocious :(
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He can’t change the players as don’t think we will spend in Jan. He doesn’t want to change his tactics.

The only think he can do is mix it around a bit and perhaps use some more of the U21 / U18.

In games against the non big 4, I want to see Maz as RCB and Dalot starting in front of him as RWB. De Light is good defensively but has very little ability to progress the ball either by carrying it or passing it. He was constantly passing back to Onana who would then hit a long ball and we would lose possession. And Maz is just better in the RCB position.

On the left, I would start Yoro as LCB and Antony as LWB. I would ask Antony to look to get up as much as possible and put in crosses (not cut inside). I will start Hojlund over Zirkzee as he is more of a poacher. For the two CM roles, we have to rotate a lot - both Ugarte and Kobbie look knackered. Maybe use more of Collyer and try to re-integrate Casemiro or see if Gore can make the step-up.

With Dalot and Antony both on their natural sides, we can stretch the play. Both have the pace and work-rate to go up and down (which Maz does'nt). Maz can help the progression as a RCB perhaps better than De Light.
 
It's not about the formation for me


What he needs to change is the way the team plays, the pressing, the way the team attacks and defends, selections, etc...

Something isn't working, I accept we have shit players, but that's not an excuse not to make something of these players.

Maz is better as a RCB, we need an attacking RWB, and yes Amad is the best 10/RAM we have but we need him in that RWB role for now to get some attacking impetus from the right side, Zirkzee should be utilitized in the 10 role alongside Bruno and Hojlund up top, he also needs to reconsider the pressing and the highline, Brighton has showed all that we are vulnerable to long balls in Behind so he needs to find a solution, accept that our players lack the quality to control a game, play deeper and hit teams on the counter.
 
Jose Mourinho the special one joined Chelsea and used two different formations very early on. At times he played Drogba alone up top and sometimes he paired him with Gudjohnsen.

Pep lives and breathes positional football but anytime he joined a new team he always played to a system that suits his attackers. His principles never change but there is a large degree of flexibility in the final third. He didn’t try to make Lewa play like Messi or Ribery like Villa or Sane.

Ancelotti is a known to favour the diamond but has never been limited to it. Simeone has played so many systems too even though all his teams have the same identity. Klopp was all 4231 at Dortmund but at Liverpool was all 433. The way he used Trent was completely different to how he played with Piszczek.

These are the best managers of this generation and they have never been so blinded by a particular system. I’m not saying Amorim can’t come back and revisit this system when we have the players for it but right now it’s clearly proving to be a failed experiment. Citing a lack of training sessions is the ultimate cop out because the team has executed game plans to perfection away against big teams. It just shows that for now 3 at the back is better against the top teams where we want to sit a bit deeper. In games where we’ve tried to take the game to the opposition it’s been horrendous and has been like that in nearly every PL game.

Just like the managers I highlighted above, why can’t he have an identity and a framework for the team that still exists with a back four.
 
The quality, and even quantity, of players available is poor. I really believe we need to just suck it up until the summer. Even if you want to change the manage (I definitely don’t), there really is no point now. The season is finished. I went to the game today and was apathetic to the result for this reason.
 
He'sRaldo said:
The team selection for the Everton 4-0 should have been the blueprint going forward:


Onana
Mazraoui - De Ligt - Martinez
Amad - Casemiro - Mainoo - Dalot
Zirkzee - Bruno
Rashford

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2 offensive CBs, at least one attacking winger as a WB, a foil in Zirkzee, and pace in behind with Rashford.

Much more offensive than the lineups that's he's been selecting recently.
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Yes I agree with that.

The two defenders as wingers is not working, we need to be bolder with one or two attackers as wing backs.

When Amorim first came here he said it's easier to teach attackers to defend than defenders to attack when talking about adapting the squad yet Amorim has gone back on this.

I'd have Hojlund in place of Rashford with Zirkzee behind with Bruno. Zirkzee is best helping out the front and midfield. Amad would be hard to pick up, Zirkzee and Amad should work well. Perhaps Hojlund won't be left as a target man as much with more support around. At Sporting they played a lot of balls between the lines on the shoulder, Hojlund has gone into a rut out there and requires either cutbacks or a ball slid in to run onto.

A first choice back three needs to happen to stop the defensive lapses. De Ligt and Maz seem like a solid 2 to start with.

A bit bolder and we should win and lose and move up, not lose lose draw.

Midfield is a key area and more help in and around the better.
 
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El Jefe said:
Jose Mourinho the special one joined Chelsea and used two different formations very early on. At times he played Drogba alone up top and sometimes he paired him with Gudjohnsen.

Pep lives and breathes positional football but anytime he joined a new team he always played to a system that suits his attackers. His principles never change but there is a large degree of flexibility in the final third. He didn’t try to make Lewa play like Messi or Ribery like Villa or Sane.

Ancelotti is a known to favour the diamond but has never been limited to it. Simeone has played so many systems too even though all his teams have the same identity. Klopp was all 4231 at Dortmund but at Liverpool was all 433. The way he used Trent was completely different to how he played with Piszczek.

These are the best managers of this generation and they have never been so blinded by a particular system. I’m not saying Amorim can’t come back and revisit this system when we have the players for it but right now it’s clearly proving to be a failed experiment. Citing a lack of training sessions is the ultimate cop out because the team has executed game plans to perfection away against big teams. It just shows that for now 3 at the back is better against the top teams where we want to sit a bit deeper. In games where we’ve tried to take the game to the opposition it’s been horrendous and has been like that in nearly every PL game.

Just like the managers I highlighted above, why can’t he have an identity and a framework for the team that still exists with a back four.
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I agree managers should be flexible, but look at the player names you dropped there - Lewa, Messi, Ribery, Villa, Sane, even Trent - all world class players who will be able to play in multiple systems.

It's not as if Ruben is walking into United in 2013 with a hatful of great players to choose from. There's not a single world class player in our squad. And why are we forgetting - these very players were failures in 4231 earlier in the season and last season. Your comparisons are just not fair. After the Liverpool game, Amorim himself said it's about commitment and application. As soon as a less glamorous fixture comes up, these players can't turn it on. They are not self motivated.
 
No wonder he wanted to wait until summer, he was given an unfair ultimatum by these awful owners
 
Like the Ole -> Rangnick situation, I still think we should have stuck with an interim rather than hire someone like Amorim who needs completely different types of players for his system to work. First impressions matter not just for fans but the dressing room to buy-in to his philosophy. Too bad he was hired 6 months early. I hope he survives and is given enough players to implement his playing style.
 
Pronewbie said:
Like the Ole -> Rangnick situation, I still think we should have stuck with an interim rather than hire someone like Amorim who needs completely different types of players for his system to work. First impressions matter not just for fans but the dressing room to buy-in to his philosophy. Too bad he was hired 6 months early. I hope he survives and is given enough players to implement his playing style.
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Yeah becoming clear that they pushed him to take job early despite knowing there was no money now
 
Pronewbie said:
Like the Ole -> Rangnick situation, I still think we should have stuck with an interim rather than hire someone like Amorim who needs completely different types of players for his system to work. First impressions matter not just for fans but the dressing room to buy-in to his philosophy. Too bad he was hired 6 months early. I hope he survives and is given enough players to implement his playing style.
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The players should be able to adapt. They’re on over 100 grand a week. They have a responsibility to learn a new role, it’s only like any normal person changing roles in their work place and having to learn it. No excuse for the CBs as they all fit into this system.
 
DJ_21 said:
The players should be able to adapt. They’re on over 100 grand a week. They have a responsibility to learn a new role, it’s only like any normal person changing roles in their work place and having to learn it. No excuse for the CBs as they all fit into this system.
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Actually they don't , apart from Yoro who is young so gets a pass for the time being every other CB we have is not fit for the purpose for the team who wants to play proactive football let alone a system which also require them to defend in wider areas .

As much as it pains me say this We will need to bring in couple of CB's in Summer again despite bringing in CB's every summer .
 
gajender said:
Actually they don't , apart from Yoro who is young so gets a pass for the time being every other CB we have is not fit for the purpose for the team who wants to play proactive football let alone a system which also require them to defend in wider areas .

As much as it pains me say this We will need to bring in couple of CB's in Summer again despite bringing in CB's every summer .
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But maguires played a back 3 before and he’s actually more suited to it being in the middle, Martinez use to have to defend wide areas under ETH as he liked the FBs to push high up. We need upgrades on the likes of Lindelof and Shaw, which it’s ashame with Shaw because he could have fitted nicely into the LCB role.
 
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