So how did alot of these players finish 3rd two seasons ago and some finished 2nd under Ole?
People only blame the players because it's more comforting
Is there any player good enough to justify binning his system to maximise? I wouldn't back this squad whether or not Amorim was manager. We can't keep playing to the strengths of garbagemen. That's how you win the FA cup and end up 15th the next season. Fool's gold of a squad.That doesn’t change the fact that he should be achieving more with the squad he has at his disposal.
Well maybe because we've had a huge drop in quality over the years?
This is just our strikers/attack (stolen from the other thread), plus add the massive drop off of Rashford this season and last, Sancho leaves, Greenwood leaving that helped Ole get second.
20/21: Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Ighalo, Greenwood
21/22: Ronaldo, Cavani, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood
22/23: Ronaldo, Martial, Rashford, Greenwood, Weghorst
23/24: Martial, Hojlund, Rashford
24/25: Hojlund, Zirkzee, Rashford
Nice try though, if you think it isn't the players, then go see the squad decline over the years. We used to think the Pogba years were bad and needed improving, that squad over ours currently is way way way far better.
We don't. Even if we wanted to do another full-scale rebuild, we can't afford it.Rangnick said we need open heart surgery.
Then, we got Ten Hag and we allowed him to perform open heart surgery. We got about 12 new players, spending over 600 million pounds.
And as a result, now we are at the bottom half of the league.
So, now we need again open heart surgery and 12 new players. And these new players should suit a completely different system, 3-4-3. And we have no idea if we are going to hire a 3-4-3 manager again in the future, if Amorim fails.
Do we have 600 million to spend? Is it wise to do so? Are we certain that we will not end up even lower than before?
Luke Shaw was one of best fullbacks then, , Rashford was a completely different player in that season and Casemiro could run.
If we had those 3 players we’d a lot better but we have a complete sick note, a player who has sulked and looked disinterested for 18 months and a player that can barely waddle.
The comparison is null and void, the squad is really poor and needs to be gutted as quickly as possible.
Can’t see it, they all might be ok in a back 4 where the know the distances they need to be from their partners on the pitch but move them into back 3 or back 5 and even Yoro being playing as 1 of the 2 CB’s in a narrow back 4 probably from the age of 14.I think you’re being harsh on Yoro as we’ve seen glimpses of brilliance for a 19 year old playing a very tough position in this system. But in general yeah I feel like I was generous with my ratings. I could see a world where we get a European spot with the current defense.
You forgot Amad and Garancho who would be considered attackers. Greenwood, Martial and Ronaldo barely featured when you guys finished third in the 2023 season.
I'm not trying anything, but people keep suggesting these players are poor. Or is it that the system and tactics don't suit them.
It's similar to ETH; in his first season he adapted to your players system wise and you finished 3rd. The second season he tweaked to a 433 but used the wrong personnel and the teams level massively dropped.
Came so close to the right sentiment. People are suggesting they don't suit a winning system. They can finish 3rd here or there and win a FA cup but their ceiling is low. This also is definitely not the same type of squad that finished 2nd or 3rd. This squad is the Ten Hag Eredivise All stars speciale.You forgot Amad and Garancho who would be considered attackers. Greenwood, Martial and Ronaldo barely featured when you guys finished third in the 2023 season.
I'm not trying anything, but people keep suggesting these players are poor. Or is it that the system and tactics don't suit them.
It's similar to ETH; in his first season he adapted to your players system wise and you finished 3rd. The second season he tweaked to a 433 but used the wrong personnel and the teams level massively dropped.
Ugarte has a similar profile to Casemiro though less experienced, Rashford has been mismanaged and became disillusioned. Everyone knows Shaws fitness issues; baffling a LB was never truly prioritized.
In a dead easy league though, even easier than the Dutch league. In the Europa league he was knocked out by Juventus in the round of 16Because ;
1) His previous team played modern and attacking football with trophies on top of that
2) He brings new ideas which i personally like (sick to death of 4231 system)
3) For winning PL you need system and style which dominates because you need 85+ points. Amorim decided to do that or fail. He is not interested in compromises.
Solskjaer and Erik adapted and set their goal just to not be sacked. Playing defensive, sitting back and grinding wins will get you exactly that. 4th or 5th place regulary.
Agree 100%.We are playing with 5 defenders, a DM and a false 9. We shouldn’t be surprised we generated only one shot on target.
Chasing a goal or two and bringing on Antony, Hojlund and Garnacho shows how bad things are. Garnacho wasn’t great but was decent enough until we totally changed our system and pretty much put him up for sale.
Which brings me to my next point, Amorim is having a shocker with his insistence on this formation. It is inherently negative and we don’t have the personnel for it. The extra defenders aren’t making us any better at the back and the attack that was already bad is at the same level or worse.
Our best attackers are Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho and all have been made to look worse than what they are. Mainoo looks lost, Dalot stands out terribly at LWB. What is the point of persisting with this not only for every game but for every minute of the game. I hate EtH and even he was known to switch up formations when chasing games.
I like him and think he comes across well but whenever a young manager thinks he’s above being wrong it always ends up bad. If you are a genius, then it needs to be proved and right now what we are seeing is just a lot of talk. This is the Premier League not a Mickey Mouse league where you can just turn up and watch teams roll over.
We have West Ham, Arsenal, Man City, Palace, Ipswich, Villa, Wolves, that’s 7 home games and we will need to win 3 plus 2 away games from the remaining 9 to put to bed relegation talk.Cant see us winning a game at OT against top 12-13 sides
Ugarte has a similar profile to Casemiro though less experienced, Rashford has been mismanaged and became disillusioned. Everyone knows Shaws fitness issues; baffling a LB was never truly prioritized.
I see it differently, we don’t have any control at all and even less of a style of play at the moment, to me we look far worse, but that’s definitely subjective and possibly a bit of emotion talking so I accept the push back on that.
My main point is that I don’t believe this set of players should be in a relegation battle, they’re seasoned internationals and should be achieving far more than they are, irrespective of the system. I think saying we don’t have the players for Amorim’s system is a poor excuse. The coaching staff need to get more out of the assets they have at their disposal, every single player looks on the decline.
Exactly he is not prime Jose from 2004, he dominated an easy league with a strong system that he was able to implement because the players were all looking to move up the footballing ladder and get their next big move to a better league, which means they will always buy into a coaches methods more?In a dead easy league though, even easier than the Dutch league. In the Europa league he was knocked out by Juventus in the round of 16
I'm not saying he is not the one, but he isn't the God of managers either. He didn't go and win the Europa with Sporting.
Luke Shaw was one of best fullbacks then, , Rashford was a completely different player in that season and Casemiro could run.
If we had those 3 players we’d a lot better but we have a complete sick note, a player who has sulked and looked disinterested for 18 months and a player that can barely waddle.
The comparison is null and void, the squad is really poor and needs to be gutted as quickly as possible.
We have West Ham, Arsenal, Man City, Palace, Ipswich, Villa, Wolves, that’s 7 home games and we will need to win 3 plus 2 away games from the remaining 9 to put to bed relegation talk.
We should beat West Ham, Ipswich and maybe Wolves and hopefully draw 2 lose 2 of the rest of home games. He desperately needs to get a grip in the EPL That’s 11 points and a huge upgrade on his current 1 point per PL game.
He will be lucky to win 2 from the away matches, Draw 3 and lose 4 which would be 9 points from 9 away games.
That would be 46 points from 38 matches and for me he should be sacked, if we can’t get him the players he needs. 27 PL matches 31 points is simply untenable!
Berrada should go with him as well for bringing him in and demanding 3421/343 system. Someone needs to say enough is enough, the club is becoming the laughing stock of the PL and the minimum points target to coach the team next year is 24 points from 16 pl matches or 1.5 points per game, the fact that he didn’t even know that his team won 3 PL Games from 10 Not 2 which he stated is a worry in its own context!
He says it’s maybe the worst United team in history, does that mean that he’s one of the worst coaches too?
Beyond gutted. Literally looking through our 27 man squad on transfermarkt just now - i’d say De ligt and martinez, ugarte, mainoo, Bruno, Diallo and Garnacho are the only ones worth keeping, not necessarily even as starters and then Yoro, Collyer and Hojlund are probably worth keeping as prospects. Theres 17 players we could get rid of without even a shrug.
May as well listen to offers for most of the squad and begin to clear the books. The ludicrous wages being off the books are good even if we aren't getting huge fees.
We will have to sign younger prospects who probably need to develop for a couple of years but are good enough to start. Like a dortmund or brighton setup. If we try the big shiny signings we are getting a couple of players in and we are stuck with this dross.
There will be no european football next year anyway, we can probably go with a squad of about 17 seniors plus youth.
But the club and amorim are toast if we keep most of these players.
The way I see it is whether their contract ends this summer or in 3 and a half years the vast majority of these players should be on their last one here. If their not we’re screwed.
We need some really good recruitment starting this summer at the latest because it’s a long way back.
No under ETH we vacated the midfield and got played off the park through the thirds, I was at Okd Trafford today and the set up was more deep low block 5221 and the box 4 in midfield did not press the Brighton defenders or midfielders so allowed them to push up their full backs high and dominate a lot of the ball. Southampton did the same in the week, if we were playing a compact 3421 which we did against Liverpool and Arsenal to a lesser extent Brighton would not have been able to turn over the ball and attack through the spaces in between Wing back and RCB or LCB and between. rCB and CB.The results have got feck all to do with the system, the players are not capable of putting 2 results together today Brighton had 6 shots and scored from 3, 2 of which were absolute gifts if not all 3 from mistakes we made, this had feck all to do with 3-4-3 these players were doing the same for ten Hag in a 4-3-2-1
I think if we get a keeper, two wingbacks and a striker this summer we have a decent potential first 11 if we can have a good pre season. Can keep a few players beyond that.
The problem for us getting players out is that most of them are total cack and they are on such huge deals theres no incentive to leave.
Proof is in the pudding with Rashford - we act like hes some class player but no one is really sniffing even on loan
Should he? I think that's on INEOS. He was never going to move away from his system, the hierarchy would have known this. We do not have the players for his system, so why hire him unless you are going to bring in appropriate players. We don't have a single wing-back for a system that is heavily reliant on them.
Is there any player good enough to justify binning his system to maximise? I wouldn't back this squad whether or not Amorim was manager. We can't keep playing to the strengths of garbagemen. That's how you win the FA cup and end up 15th the next season. Fool's gold of a squad.
You're spot on for ten hag last season. Ten hag for the start of this season tightened up and it was reflected in the stats you refer to. That being said we were still quite shit as an attack and his lives ran out.Many people have short memory really. They forgot how dire we were under ETH. Every opponent could produce 20+ shots against us. We never could control a game in any meaningful and sustainable way. Chaos is his grand plan. We have wiped out those nonsense since Ruben started. But he has to start to get results. Otherwise, it’s ugly by the end of the season.
Should he? I think that's on INEOS. He was never going to move away from his system, the hierarchy would have known this. We do not have the players for his system, so why hire him unless you are going to bring in appropriate players. We don't have a single wing-back for a system that is heavily reliant on them.
This is a tough one.The storm is here. And it will be here until the end of the season. Deal with it.
Spot on.The players are mentally shot. The only way out of this is either replacing them all or forcing them to face the reality of where they’re at and come through the other side. How many times do you see a team that’s better than they are but can’t do anything right and ultimately get relegated? Every year there’s a team or two that have the collective mentality of relegation fodder? We’re that team. The players play with so much anxiety that defending them or making excuses for them won’t work anymore. It’s time to man up or go down as the worst United team ever. There’s no where to hide.
This is a tough one.
He stated it was going to be rough which it is. We have two weeks in the January window left. We're no closer to selling any of the rumored players that are up for sale. Rashford has been frozen out, rightly so. We can't sell him outright because of his wages, and no club are going to give us what we think he's worth. We know there is some talent in this squad, but if the club don't give him the tools he needs, I don't see them keeping him beyond another season. We need a total squad overhaul and seemingly are restricted from doing so.
