Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

In retrospect - we had two big games, the second of which went to 120 minutes and we player 60 minutes with 10. We don't have enough depth to rotate. This kind of game was always going to happen. Its a relief that Amad bailed us out
 
I’m frustrated for our manager, I’m mega happy for our fans and Amad.

The frustration is that there’s no depth so therefor no options. Anthony isn’t a game changer. The lack of attacking and midfield quality on the bench is shocking.
 
Not sure about the fatigue issues. Arsenal had also played 120 minutes and played 24 hours earlier and beat Spurs themselves quite comfortably
 
I watched the second half again and he's a lot more correct than I realized about saints looking absolutely gassed by the 60th min and how much we were in control after that point.

It makes some level of sense in retrospect. Mainoo and ugarte were on dead legs pretty much from minute one and got dominated, we got fresh legs in midfield (and whatever Bruno's infinite engine is called) while they tired, and then we dominated.

None of which should be taken as excuse for mainoo and ugarte looking like they'd smoked a dozen joints pre-match.
 
witchtrials said:
Hmm, interesting. Not saying you're wrong but sounds like your answer to my question is "No, things aren't improving (because that's not possible with this squad)".
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I wouldn't say not possible but extremely difficult in this league without a preseason to bed in patterns of play. It's like transplanting a seedling in the desert, it's chances of survival are very slim.

He is also not blameless, I see him trust a lot of the players in the first team, move players who had settled into roles early on around thereby confusing them and not trusting academy players on the fringes. ETH failed here but his bravery with youth also gave us a couple of exciting pieces in Kobbie and Garnacho whilst he also made Collyer a first teamer.

We can say a lot about this league but if you have the physical side covered you can get buy and that's all we need until we bring a few players in. So, now he knows he isn't getting anything in January, does he plod along with Maz at WB or will he be braver and try the youth. Same as shoehorning Garnacho into an AM role when we have a few no.10s coming through, the league is gone so use the remaining matches to build an outline of the future squad rather than sit like a duck and wait for sack.
 
Hmmm....that wasn't good and I am sure he knows it. Lot of work needs to be done. We can't look second best at home against the worst team in the league again. They ran circles around us for most of the game and should have won if they could finish. We simply have to do better if we have to get anything out the season.

What happened to that LWB and Striker signings? He needs help asap. A CM on loan too.
 
We were lousy in the 1st half but he again changed the game with his subs. Fatigue caught us and we were bad cause of that also and tbh tactically we were completely outsmarted. It's all a learning for him too. Also needs to give Ugarte and Mainoo a rest.
 
Real Name said:
We were lousy in the 1st half but he again changed the game with his subs. Fatigue caught us and we were bad cause of that also and tbh tactically we were completely outsmarted. It's all a learning for him too. Also needs to give Ugarte and Mainoo a rest.
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Like the Newcastle game without those 2 we are losing the game and we he/us can’t afford another loss right now. At their age they should be fine without one.
 
Explain that match? It’s not tactics, ability or fatigue.
It’s motivation - plain and simple. Hard to motivate a performance in a competition/match where there’s nothing at stake.
Thats the challenge for the manager.
 
Insanity said:
Hmmm....that wasn't good and I am sure he knows it. Lot of work needs to be done. We can't look second best at home against the worst team in the league again. They ran circles around us for most of the game and should have won if they could finish. We simply have to do better if we have to get anything out the season.

What happened to that LWB and Striker signings? He needs help asap. A CM on loan too.
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By that logic we should also have had another two goals if Garnacho and Antony had finished properly.
 
AneRu said:
I wouldn't say not possible but extremely difficult in this league without a preseason to bed in patterns of play. It's like transplanting a seedling in the desert, it's chances of survival are very slim.
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I don't know. I would like to be confident that a full pre-season is going to transform play in a way that day-to-day training and playing in that style every week can't, but it feels a bit like clutching at straws. I don't feel like any other manager arriving at any club in November needs until next August until their team starts playing in their style.

If there were incremental shifts and we were still making poor errors as we adapted that would be one thing. But to me we look like the same old Moments FC but with an extra centre back.
 
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Last night... one of the worst Manchester United games I have seen in a while, considering the state of the opposition. I can already see the usual copium being inhaled - Southampton raised their game and the ref was bad - but that is just nonsense, of course. Maybe tiredness after the Arsenal game played a part, but United aren't the only team playing a lot.

At this point, I'm inclined the believe the culture of the club is one of failure and mediocrity, and Oleball, lots and lots of Oleball. I do not believe this coach will change it and not because he is a bad coach.
 
A win is a win, but losing 0-1 until the 81st minute against arguably the worst Premier League team ever is obviously not good.

I do feel for him though. He's been given a very difficult, and mostly thankless job.
 
redNATION said:
Arsenal didn’t play with 10 men for an hour though.
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Are we really using this as an excuse against a team on course for the worse PL tally in history, who’ve not won away all season and have 6 points on the board? This team who came to OT and outplayed us for 80 mins and should have been out of sight.

Not all of the players played for an hour in that game, subs were made and some were subbed off earlier in this game. Things didn’t improve in this game until much later on.

Any excuses like that is clutching at very thin straws.
 
Were we losing in the 81st minute because of Amorim? Football has nuances.
One could argue that if Garnacho scores the easy chance, we cruise the game.
Of course Southampton are going to fight for their lives!
There are no easy games in PL and any team will punish you if you don't take control of the game.
 
witchtrials said:
I don't know. I would like to be confident that a full pre-season is going to transform play in a way that day-to-day training and playing in that style every week but it feels a bit like clutching at straws. I don't feel like any other manager arriving at any club in November needs until next August until their team starts playing in their style.

If there were incremental shifts and we were still making poor errors as we adapted that would be one thing. But to me we look like the same old Moments FC but with an extra centre back.
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The squad balance, mentality and physicality issues we have can't and won't just disappear with more time. This is why it was idiotic to bring him in in November when he was there all through the summer and clearly looking to move.

No matter how much time we spend on the training pitch we still won't have a LWB of acceptable standard, squad depth issues abound, slow players through the spine of the team and non scoring strikers. This won't change and some of the inconsistency will shock even the most supportive fan. I am sure we will have more games like last night but at least we now have a better team spirit than before.

Look at the difference Collyer made by just being able to compete physically. We need that throughout the team and when you establish that then technical players can start to shine. This is why I am imploring him to add a few more youngsters, Wheatley wouldn't be as bad as Hoijlund is right now, for example.
 
Telsim said:
Last night... one of the worst Manchester United games I have seen in a while, considering the state of the opposition. I can already see the usual copium being inhaled - Southampton raised their game and the ref was bad - but that is just nonsense, of course. Maybe tiredness after the Arsenal game played a part, but United aren't the only team playing a lot.

At this point, I'm inclined the believe the culture of the club is one of failure and mediocrity, and Oleball, lots and lots of Oleball. I do not believe this coach will change it and not because he is a bad coach.
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I thought we were shit until the final quarter, but Southampton actually have some neat and exciting players. They played at a high level for 3/4 of the game. Their weaknesses are that they can’t score, and they’re very brittle at the back, a recipe for disaster.
 
It’s like we know how to raise our game but also, we know how to drop our game. We play at the level of whatever opponent we face.
I’m not confident that we would look superior against a League 2 side.
 
TheGame said:
This team who came to OT and outplayed us for 80 mins and should have been out of sight.
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This is complete and utter bullshit. You can argue that in the first half the game was looking like even match, should have been 1-1.
In the second half we pinned them down and didn't give them a chance to get into the game. They only had one individual run of the guy who was tormenting Yoro. Nothing else. We were the better team and the win was clearly coming from the moment 2nd half started.

Stop making bullshit up to validate your complaining!
 
TheGame said:
Are we really using this as an excuse against a team on course for the worse PL tally in history, who’ve not won away all season and have 6 points on the board? This team who came to OT and outplayed us for 80 mins and should have been out of sight.

Not all of the players played for an hour in that game, subs were made and some were subbed off earlier in this game. Things didn’t improve in this game until much later on.

Any excuses like that is clutching at very thin straws.
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Agreed it was evident after about 10 mins what ever we were trying wasn't working it had the hallmarks of another Bournemouth result against a team as you say one of the worst the premiership has seen thus far,it took for Amad to pull us out the shit again in the 82nd minute to salvage something from the game unacceptable really.
 
Adisa said:
It’s like we know how to raise our game but also, we know how to drop our game. We play at the level of whatever opponent we face.
I’m not confident that we would look superior against a League 2 side.
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Newport County showed as much last season, I'm sure they had 17 shots and battered us second half
 
Here's the question: Ruben Amorim said he was gonna learn a lot about his players last night. What did he learn?
 
Really think this formation can't work without genuine pace and attacking threat in the wing backs. Not sure if it's a premier league thing or what, but without them we have no outlet, are severely outnumbered when we attack and can't get from defence to attack.

Given the players we have, not really sure what can be done this season. Amad full time RWB and...someone at LWB? Kind of depressing.
 
It's not fatigue lads, we weren't doing the basics. We reverted back to the way Ten Hag had us playing, wide open in the middle, leaving the defenders exposed, 2nd to everything and ball watching. It's going to take months to undo the mental damage that man did.
 
Toshey said:
This is complete and utter bullshit. You can argue that in the first half the game was looking like even match, should have been 1-1.
In the second half we pinned them down and didn't give them a chance to get into the game. They only had one individual run of the guy who was tormenting Yoro. Nothing else. We were the better team and the win was clearly coming from the moment 2nd half started.

Stop making bullshit up to validate your complaining!
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Bollocks, don’t make bullshit up to support your nonsense. The commentator even said nothing had changed in the second half. They had just as much chances as we did. We only pinned them back from 75-80 mins onwards. Not sure what game you were watching. And if you thought it was an even match in the first half, you are deluded.
 
Beachryan said:
Really think this formation can't work without genuine pace and attacking threat in the wing backs. Not sure if it's a premier league thing or what, but without them we have no outlet, are severely outnumbered when we attack and can't get from defence to attack.

Given the players we have, not really sure what can be done this season. Amad full time RWB and...someone at LWB? Kind of depressing.
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I kind agree with your overall sentiments but last night is a bad example, we were always going to be outnumbered in their half.

The key issue was we had no left wing so they could overload heavily on Amad's side. There were numerous situations where he had the ball high and wide but with 4 or 5 Southampton players boxing him in. The moments we broke down the left we had the space to create dangerous situations.

We desperately need an actual LWB or for Shaw to find a miracle cure.
 
TheGame said:
Bollocks, don’t make bullshit up to support your nonsense. The commentator even said nothing had changed in the second half. They had just as much chances as we did. We only pinned them back from 75-80 mins onwards. Not sure what game you were watching. And if you thought it was an even match in the first half, you are deluded.
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I think you saw a different game. After the two subs in the second half, we were in clear control of the game and started to create more changes. Which got a lot easier around the 80 min because southampton got tired and couldn't keep up.
 
deef said:
I think you saw a different game. After the two subs in the second half, we were in clear control of the game and started to create more changes. Which got a lot easier around the 80 min because southampton got tired and couldn't keep up.
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When the subs were made, we were better but they still had chances until their fitness faded. Doesn’t escape the fact they were the better team for the majority of the game.
 
crossy1686 said:
It's not fatigue lads, we weren't doing the basics. We reverted back to the way Ten Hag had us playing, wide open in the middle, leaving the defenders exposed, 2nd to everything and ball watching. It's going to take months to undo the mental damage that man did.
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Could wide open in the middle not be because of Amorim playing three centre backs and two midfielders ? Rather than the ghost of Ten Hag?
 
TheGame said:
When the subs were made, we were better but they still had chances until their fitness faded. Doesn’t escape the fact they were the better team for the majority of the game.
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Yeah we had difficulties dealing with the speedy attackers and I thought yoro was to isolated in a couple of moments but as we managed to keep the ball longer we hadn't much problems anymore. Wierd game to analyse but until the subs we looked truly terrible.
 
TheGame said:
When the subs were made, we were better but they still had chances until their fitness faded. Doesn’t escape the fact they were the better team for the majority of the game.
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That definitely didn’t happen. They were the better team for about 30 minutes in total. 45 minutes if we’re going to be generous. And they were never as dominant as us when we got on top. Hence we had twice as many shots and shots on target as they did (or you can look at xG if that’s your thing) To claim they dominated us for 80 minutes (your initial post) is just straight up wrong.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That definitely didn’t happen. They were the better team for about 30 minutes in total. 45 minutes if we’re going to be extremely generous. And they were never as dominant as us when we got on top. Hence we had twice as many shots and shots on target as they did (or you can look at xG if that’s your thing)
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We failed to assert ourselves in a home game against statistically the worst team in Premier League history, and we were second best for a large chunk of the game.

Saying we were played off the park for 90 minutes would be an exaggeration but the the unexaggerated version was still fairly pitiful.
 
Toshey said:
Were we losing in the 81st minute because of Amorim? Football has nuances.
One could argue that if Garnacho scores the easy chance, we cruise the game.
Of course Southampton are going to fight for their lives!
There are no easy games in PL and any team will punish you if you don't take control of the game.
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Yeah, or if we are given the penalty for the handball, that 100% would have been given against us. I don't doubt that for a second. Also, Southampton had numerous chances obviously, but the goal they ended up actually scoring was pretty random in the end. That first half could have gone many different ways.

Someone pointed out before the game that Southampton haven't really gotten demolished away from home, so all these 5-0 predictions were always just wishful thinking. Arsenal beat them 3-1 at the Emirates back in October, also going behind and scoring all their goals in the second half. City beat them 1-0 at the Etihad. Their big defeats have come at home.

In the end it was a poor performance, but we did deserve the win based on the chances we created.
 
witchtrials said:
We failed to assert ourselves in a home game against statistically the worst team in Premier League history, and we were second best for a large chunk of the game.

Saying we were played off the park for 90 minutes would be an exaggeration but the the unexaggerated version was still fairly pitiful.
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We were shite in the first half. I don’t disagree with that. I’m arguing with someone who was denying that Amorim turned things round with his substitutions and implied we only got a foot in the game right before Amad’s equaliser. Which is nonsense.

None of this takes away from the fact that the overall performance was disappointing.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That definitely didn’t happen. They were the better team for about 30 minutes in total. 45 minutes if we’re going to be generous. And they were never as dominant as us when we got on top. Hence we had twice as many shots and shots on target as they did (or you can look at xG if that’s your thing) To claim they dominated us for 80 minutes (your initial post) is just straight up wrong.
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They were the better team for the majority of the game. Maybe I was generous with 80 mins but perhaps until the last third, they were the better team and should have been out of sight in the first half. Tactically they were much better as well and prevented us from playing out, their press was better and had they had a decent striker they would have won. For a team with 6 points on the board all season, that is worrying.
 
AneRu said:
The squad balance, mentality and physicality issues we have can't and won't just disappear with more time. This is why it was idiotic to bring him in in November when he was there all through the summer and clearly looking to move.

No matter how much time we spend on the training pitch we still won't have a LWB of acceptable standard, squad depth issues abound, slow players through the spine of the team and non scoring strikers. This won't change and some of the inconsistency will shock even the most supportive fan. I am sure we will have more games like last night but at least we now have a better team spirit than before.
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If we simply don't have the players to play in this formation and not be shocking then what is the point in doing it? The standard answer seems to be that we are "embedding patterns of play". I'm just curious if anyone can see what these patterns of play are that we have started to embed. They are not perceptible to me so far, but others are more tactically astute than me.
 
TheGame said:
They were the better team for the majority of the game. Maybe I was generous with 80 mins but perhaps until the last third, they were the better team and should have been out of sight in the first half. Tactically they were much better as well and prevented us from playing out, their press was better and had they had a decent striker they would have won. For a team with 6 points on the board all season, that is worrying.
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The stats just don’t support your take here. There’s no way on earth a team can dominate for 60 minutes end up with 40% possessions and less than half the shots/xG of the opposition. You were just caught up in the disappointment of a poor performance and that’s distorted the balance of play in your mind.

I watched the game knowing the result in advance (couldn’t watch it live) and we were only properly dominated for a spell in the first half. Other than that we were by far the most dominant team, especially after we made our subs, with Southampton only occasionally causing us problems on the break.

Not that it matters. Or makes the overall performance less disappointing. But it is reassuring that Amorim turned things round with his subs. That’s already a recurring theme and bodes well for the future under him as manager. It’s also a nice change from life under ETH where we were more likely to disimprove after substitutions.
 
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