Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Can someone explain the difference in our build up play vs Brighton's similar formation (I can't recall when they played this, but remember they did for a while).

Similar in that it was 3 CBs, 2 wide guys and box of 4 central guys behind a striker. They used proper wingers, so I'm assuming they were higher up the pitch. I want to say this was right before Solly March got hurt for a long time?

Wondering just exactly why our possession play is so bad.
 
Garethw said:
Amad should not be played at wing back. He needs to be as close to the goal as possible.
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Well if we compare him playing in both positions I think you’ll find he as more assist and goals at RWB. If we find some quality number 10s he’ll be alright at RWB
 
J!!Z said:
He needs to put pressure on the higher ups to get him proper wing backs. We got lucky today that Southampton were crap but we can't continue like this. We need proper wing backs who can stretch the opposition so that these attackers can have a hope of doing anything in the middle.
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We can't buy before summer really. Even if we can send Rashford on loan.
 
sepulturite said:
I don't agree about Amad, he scored his goals tonight and his play improved massively once he was moved up to play as a 10 after the subs
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Our best win under Amorim he played and got MOTM against Everton with 2 assist at RWB
 
Did well again to fix the issues fast. I feel for him, it's still very early and very little quality to turn to with fitness and more still an issue. We can't burn out the few good players and we need more onboard ready to slot in so I support his rotation, it was a major skill Fergie had.

Honestly if it takes a few sales like Garnacho to get the recruitment ball rolling then so be it. The first half was just appalling, getting outplayed by Southampton.

It's mind numbing how much money has been spent on this squad and to see that performance we've seen so many times in the last two years. We've been a mid to bottom half team in that 18 months 2 years and looked the same again today.

Imagine if Amad was injured this season or on loan still. And what a strong player we have benefitting from being away.
 
It's actually crazy how he calls them out post-liverpool for not keeping a standard and pre-saints, by saying there is expectations to beat dross, and they go out there and still look like they are not interested until amad goes on a heroic run.

He keeps telling them, you can do it, so do it every week and these players respond with "why should I, it's only X team".

Its Amorim vs the squad and these idiots have to get it through their heads that they are the problem.
 
I hope he gets some players in the summer because the current iteration of our team is such a mess though I'm not sure how much he can mitigate or it's completely out of his control.

I'd want him to be screaming at his centre backs to be pushing higher. Both Yoro and de Ligt sat so deep off the ball and it was so easy for Southampton to control the game in the first half. All they had to do was press with 3 players and man mark our centre backs, who were mostly sitting on the edge of their own penalty box. Then to further compound it, we kept pressing high leaving massive gaps in the middle for them to play around us like kids in the park.

One of the WCBs need to pushing higher near the half way line with the CCB covering that channel otherwise we're a man short in midfield for the whole 90 mins. I was mad at de Ligt being so passive and cautious in the middle in the first half.
 
Really like him, not sure on the tactics/set up but does most other things really well.

Love his in-game management and honesty/transparance.

Ole and EtH would call that a good performance and deserved win.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Really like him, not sure on the tactics/set up but does most other things really well.

Love his in-game management and honesty/transparance.

Ole and EtH would call that a good performance and deserved win.
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Ye they would. Glad we have an honest manager now that can see that the squad still as problems despite winning. He doesn’t settle for just winning and he wants the performances to go with it
 
WPMUFC said:
It's actually crazy how he calls them out post-liverpool for not keeping a standard and pre-saints, by saying there is expectations to beat dross, and they go out there and still look like they are not interested until amad goes on a heroic run.

He keeps telling them, you can do it, so do it every week and these players respond with "why should I, it's only X team".

Its Amorim vs the squad and these idiots have to get it through their heads that they are the problem.
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Yes and no to that.

It's clear that when Amorim took over there was a crisis in the mentality surrounding the club, and there had been for a long time. To change that, and reset it with much higher standards, no protections for players just based off their name or status, etc., was always going to take considerable time. To do it mid-season is extremely challenging, and in some ways, adveristy helps because you can build an us against them mentality that brings the squad closer together. Adversity also helps separate out the players who have a real desire to win, and the mental strength to overcome pressure and challenges. When you couple that revolution to a complete change of tactical system, you are putting yourself in for some hard times, and results will be very difficult. So much so, when I watch the team now, I am looking more at their attitude, than I am their technical performance. They have so little time on the training pitch this time of year, the only real change you will see is in how the team mental approaches games, or reacts to situations.

The Liverpool, Arsenal, and City games really showed us something. It showed the players that had the character and quality to stand up and be counted. Who the leaders were. None of that meant that there wouldn't be more blips. Today, after two massive games back to back, extra time against Arsenal, I think it showed we had a bit of an adrenaline crash today and a bit of tiredness creep in. The first half was shit. But.....the second half was clearly different. We didn't play well in the second half, but we came out with a much higher level of intensity and desire. Even the players who didn't play well were giving it their all. Amad rode to the rescue, and without his quality, we may not have gotten there, but I didn't see anything wrong with that reaction in the second half. Being flat in the first half, after the last two games, was an incredibly predictable, and maybe even unavoidable outcome at this stage.

Amad deserves all the plaudits, but lets not say the mentality was bad until he scored, because it wasn't. We lacked intensity in the first half, that was obvious, but the reaction was there in the second. We just lacked quality until Amad went all god mode.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Really like him, not sure on the tactics/set up but does most other things really well.

Love his in-game management and honesty/transparance.

Ole and EtH would call that a good performance and deserved win.
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I feel same, like everything else apart from tactics and formation. Not convinced, He can dominate/control the game against majority of team in premier league with this unless we get top quality player in each position.
 
Two wingbacks and a striker and this team would look night and day better. Far too often we don’t have any sort of out ball.
 
saivet said:
Interesting that he was more angry after the Liverpool game than today.
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Because he said before the game that this game very Southampton will tell him a lot about his players.

He sensed that this game might be a shocker, and some players proved him right.
 
Tarrou said:
I will bet any amount if you wanna bet that

I do agree we need him further up the pitch, but in some games he'll struggle to get on the ball in the 10.. but as he matures he'll get better and better positionally in that 10 role I am sure

I'm sure he'll play in both positions plenty enough in the next couple of years
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I'm sure I saw on here that a large number of posters wanted Amad at wingback.

The negativity on here is hilarious at times, usually by the anti 343 brigade, those who just don't like Amorim or both.
 
Was it just me or did Rueben take an absolute age to come out for ghe post match press conference? He came out immediately for the TNT one but the one for the journalists was really delayed it seemed.

Reckon he had quite a bit to say in the dressing room.
 
NoPace said:
Can someone explain the difference in our build up play vs Brighton's similar formation (I can't recall when they played this, but remember they did for a while).

Similar in that it was 3 CBs, 2 wide guys and box of 4 central guys behind a striker. They used proper wingers, so I'm assuming they were higher up the pitch. I want to say this was right before Solly March got hurt for a long time?

Wondering just exactly why our possession play is so bad.
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I’d have to go back, but I’d say a few things that probably contribute is the lack of a central progressor in midfield (neither Ugarte nor Mainoo are great passing through the lines, they are both better as carriers). Brighton also had flying wingbacks and overall a better technical foundation for their team.

We played a starting front 3 of players who’s technical ability in tight spaces/under pressure ranges from mediocre (Bruno), to down right atrocious (Hojlund). Because of this, Southampton went man for man and dared us to beat them by firing it longer to Hojlund or the other two, knowing that none were really a threat to control a ball and quickly turn and run. I also think we missed Maguires passing from that CCB spot, he’s miles better on the ball than MdL who basically does nothing.
 
alexthelion said:
I'm sure I saw on here that a large number of posters wanted Amad at wingback.

The negativity on here is hilarious at times, usually by the anti 343 brigade, those who just don't like Amorim or both.
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You forgot the few secret ETH defenders still remaining.
 
DJ_21 said:
Our best win under Amorim he played and got MOTM against Everton with 2 assist at RWB
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That’s just because he’s a brilliant footballer, not because he’s better suited as a wingback. Sticking your best attacker in defense is stupid (I understand it’s necessary at times right now).

Give Amad another top wingback on his outside to play with and we’ll look even better.
 
After the win it’s easy to say the extra time and penalties against Arsenal took it out of the players.

But United got away with it tonight, weekend is going to be very very tough.
 
RuudTom83 said:
After the win it’s easy to say the extra time and penalties against Arsenal took it out of the players.

But United got away with it tonight, weekend is going to be very very tough.
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Yes people forget the last match went all the way to penalties. No wonders a lot of the players looks sluggish
 
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The problem of playing 3 CBs system is that you need very clever and multitask players that can defend on width while having the conscience to keep the inside space closed.
 
Toshey said:
He was MASSIVELY let down by Ugarte and Mainoo. Absolutely shocking from both of them.
Hojlund was bad beyond words.
Also if Garnacho scores the easy chance it's much calmer game for us.

Zirkzee did really well but that says nothing really. For all we know, next game he starts, plays terrible and Hojlund comes on and looks decent.

We NEED players badly.

And to the clueless posts saying "we should have kept ETH" - ETH almost froze Amad out, trying to push Forson ahead of him. Think about that.
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Bit harsh on Ugarte I think. He was fairly average, but Hojlund, Garnacho and Mazraoui (and Mainoo as you said) were all much more at fault of what was happening IMO. Hojlund's complete lack of being able to do anything (bar that one pass to Garnacho), Garnacho constantly giving the ball away, Mazraoui refusing to push up and be an option, and Mainoo's very poor game all meant that there were very few options for the others.
 
simonhch said:
Yes and no to that.

It's clear that when Amorim took over there was a crisis in the mentality surrounding the club, and there had been for a long time. To change that, and reset it with much higher standards, no protections for players just based off their name or status, etc., was always going to take considerable time. To do it mid-season is extremely challenging, and in some ways, adveristy helps because you can build an us against them mentality that brings the squad closer together. Adversity also helps separate out the players who have a real desire to win, and the mental strength to overcome pressure and challenges. When you couple that revolution to a complete change of tactical system, you are putting yourself in for some hard times, and results will be very difficult. So much so, when I watch the team now, I am looking more at their attitude, than I am their technical performance. They have so little time on the training pitch this time of year, the only real change you will see is in how the team mental approaches games, or reacts to situations.

The Liverpool, Arsenal, and City games really showed us something. It showed the players that had the character and quality to stand up and be counted. Who the leaders were. None of that meant that there wouldn't be more blips. Today, after two massive games back to back, extra time against Arsenal, I think it showed we had a bit of an adrenaline crash today and a bit of tiredness creep in. The first half was shit. But.....the second half was clearly different. We didn't play well in the second half, but we came out with a much higher level of intensity and desire. Even the players who didn't play well were giving it their all. Amad rode to the rescue, and without his quality, we may not have gotten there, but I didn't see anything wrong with that reaction in the second half. Being flat in the first half, after the last two games, was an incredibly predictable, and maybe even unavoidable outcome at this stage.

Amad deserves all the plaudits, but lets not say the mentality was bad until he scored, because it wasn't. We lacked intensity in the first half, that was obvious, but the reaction was there in the second. We just lacked quality until Amad went all god mode.
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Well written!
Traditionally, Jan and Feb are the very tough period. Let’s see after Feb, where we are and how our consistency becomes. It takes time and clever management of the squad.
 
Ruben Amorim on Man Utd game at home to Southampton tomorrow. "This next game will teach me more about my players than the last two. There is no expectation in the last two games. Against Arsenal we waited for the opportunity. In the future we can’t play like that and I know that. Fans will expect more tomorrow. We have to deliver."
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Hopefully he burnt a DVD copy of the 80 mins and sent it straight to Brexit Jim with a note to gut this squad like a fish.
 
WPMUFC said:
It's actually crazy how he calls them out post-liverpool for not keeping a standard and pre-saints, by saying there is expectations to beat dross, and they go out there and still look like they are not interested until amad goes on a heroic run.

He keeps telling them, you can do it, so do it every week and these players respond with "why should I, it's only X team".

Its Amorim vs the squad and these idiots have to get it through their heads that they are the problem.
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The players are not idiots - especially in this case. Not every setback is their fault. It's pretty clear most of them are physically and mentally drained after Sunday's game where they played with 10 men for 90 -120 minutes. That's an extra level of drainage. That can affect players today physically and mentally, especially considering they needed to conserve energy for the upcoming match in 2 days. They were not pushing themselves all the way out of necessity and it's pretty clear Amorim did not want to use up the subs early if he could. Even Bruno looked fatigued, and he has monumental stamina.

My guess they thought could still play at a lower gear and wrap up the game in the first half, but it did not go that way, unluckily. If Garnacho scored, things may have looked a little different and the game could have been managed without wasted energy. Players who were normally dependable were off the pace. Once the second half started, especially when the subs came in - things changed. It's clear that this was all about energy levels and creeping fatigue. Even Amad played conservatively up until the last 15 - 20 minutes and then he turned it up, not caring about his energy levels, to make sure we scored. You can see this in the rest of the players as well. Amad probably won't be starting the next game. Once everybody was committed to go all out - they managed to do it, something I think they always knew they could. It's 3 games in a span of a week and one of it was 120 minutes one with only 10 men. These things can affect players and how they strategize. Context is important.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I’d have to go back, but I’d say a few things that probably contribute is the lack of a central progressor in midfield (neither Ugarte nor Mainoo are great passing through the lines, they are both better as carriers). Brighton also had flying wingbacks and overall a better technical foundation for their team.

We played a starting front 3 of players who’s technical ability in tight spaces/under pressure ranges from mediocre (Bruno), to down right atrocious (Hojlund). Because of this, Southampton went man for man and dared us to beat them by firing it longer to Hojlund or the other two, knowing that none were really a threat to control a ball and quickly turn and run. I also think we missed Maguires passing from that CCB spot, he’s miles better on the ball than MdL who basically does nothing.
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Part of it is because we're too slow and allow the opposition to get set in their positions, Onana is a huge problem in this respect but the moverment ahead isn't all that great at times either, we play it safe too often
 
Red Primus said:
The players are not idiots - especially in this case. Not every setback is their fault. It's pretty clear most of them are physically and mentally drained after Sunday's game where they played with 10 men for 90 -120 minutes. That's an extra level of drainage. That can affect players today physically and mentally, especially considering they needed to conserve energy for the upcoming match in 2 days. They were not pushing themselves all the way out of necessity and it's pretty clear Amorim did not want to use up the subs early if he could. Even Bruno looked fatigued, and he has monumental stamina.

My guess they thought could still play at a lower gear and wrap up the game in the first half, but it did not go that way, unluckily. If Garnacho scored, things may have looked a little different and the game could have been managed without wasted energy. Players who were normally dependable were off the pace. Once the second half started, especially when the subs came in - things changed. It's clear that this was all about energy levels and creeping fatigue. Even Amad played conservatively up until the last 15 - 20 minutes and then he turned it up, not caring about his energy levels, to make sure we scored. You can see this in the rest of the players as well. Amad probably won't be starting the next game. Once everybody was committed to go all out - they managed to do it, something I think they always knew they could. It's 3 games in a span of a week and one of it was 120 minutes one with only 10 men. These things can affect players and how they strategize. Context is important.
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He could have changed it though, Malacia and Collyer could both have started, so could Antony as RWB though in hindsight that might not have been a good idea, Zirkzee is another who could have started
 
Red Primus said:
The players are not idiots - especially in this case. Not every setback is their fault. It's pretty clear most of them are physically and mentally drained after Sunday's game where they played with 10 men for 90 -120 minutes. That's an extra level of drainage. That can affect players today physically and mentally, especially considering they needed to conserve energy for the upcoming match in 2 days. They were not pushing themselves all the way out of necessity and it's pretty clear Amorim did not want to use up the subs early if he could. Even Bruno looked fatigued, and he has monumental stamina.

My guess they thought could still play at a lower gear and wrap up the game in the first half, but it did not go that way, unluckily. If Garnacho scored, things may have looked a little different and the game could have been managed without wasted energy. Players who were normally dependable were off the pace. Once the second half started, especially when the subs came in - things changed. It's clear that this was all about energy levels and creeping fatigue. Even Amad played conservatively up until the last 15 - 20 minutes and then he turned it up, not caring about his energy levels, to make sure we scored. You can see this in the rest of the players as well. Amad probably won't be starting the next game. Once everybody was committed to go all out - they managed to do it, something I think they always knew they could. It's 3 games in a span of a week and one of it was 120 minutes one with only 10 men. These things can affect players and how they strategize. Context is important.
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Amorim: "In first half we were too late to every ball, we tried to press high, is a different game to Liverpool + Arsenal, we have to stretch more. We left Leny all the time one against one. I need to understand why we suffer in these games. Big games we are compact."
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https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1880029270086676891

He said it post-match again. He cannot understand why they play so badly. He'd understand some fatigue, yet called them out again post-match. He seems absolutely baffled that he has to keep saying this and then they go out there and do it anyway. If he's not using "fatigue" as an excuse, we shouldn't either.
 
WPMUFC said:
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/go?https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1880029270086676891

He said it post-match again. He cannot understand why they play so badly. He'd understand some fatigue, yet called them out again post-match. He seems absolutely baffled that he has to keep saying this and then they go out there and do it anyway. If he's not using "fatigue" as an excuse, we shouldn't either.
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Just because he's said it does not mean he actually believes it. If he did believe it, he would have strategized differently. I'm sure his maxim is never let other teams know how we think or prepare. Fatigue is fatigue - it's not an excuse. It's a reality where we will be playing 3 games in the better part of a week and of them was done with 120 minutes with 10 men. Whether he mentions it or not, does not mean it does not exist. Simply slating players especially knowing the context is just allocating blame without care.
 
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Red Primus said:
Just because he's said it does not mean he actually believes it. If he did believe it, he would have strategized differently. I'm sure his maxim is never let other teams know how we think or prepare.
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Pre match: this game will tell me more about my players.
Post match: we were late to every first ball, Leny was continually left with no support, I need to understand why we suffer in these games.

Pretty simple language there - If you want to down the road of interpretation or flat out denial, be my guest. But he has real issues with how our squad only goes out there to try for the big headline games and then struggles against historically bad teams. And for some reason, this squad still can't take in his public message to uphold a standard.
 
Red in STL said:
He could have changed it though, Malacia and Collyer could both have started, so could Antony as RWB though in hindsight that might not have been a good idea, Zirkzee is another who could have started
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Like I said, he may have wanted to use these players in the next game, or he has some plans in mind. Him not using them immediately from the start is not a confirmation of anything. What is undeniable and very obvious was - they were extremely fatigued and how the game progressed and moved to its conclusion speaks to that.
WPMUFC said:
Pre match: this game will tell me more about my players.
Post match: we were late to every first ball, Leny was continually left with no support, I need to understand why we suffer in these games.

Pretty simple language there - If you want to down the road of interpretation or flat out denial, be my guest. But he has real issues with how our squad only goes out there to try for the big headline games and then struggles against historically bad teams. And for some reason, this squad still can't take in his public message to uphold a standard.
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I'm not the one flat out in denial. You seem to be. You're actually refusing that fatigue could be a key component when it's pretty clear that there is an effect from it. Why would any manager announce to other coaches that his players are fatigued? Other coaches can strategize for players being tired and take advantage of it but not if they have some mentality issue. We just had a huge game where we played with 10 men for 120 minutes and you're refusing to take fatigue arising from that game to be a factor or even the fact we'll be playing 3 games in about a week, and there is a requirement to compensate and strategize for that kind of prolonged exertion. No - it can only be laziness and nothing else despite the fact, under Amorim, we've had back-to-back games where they prevailed because of mentality.
 
I've just watched the post match press conference. Rubin seemed very calm and unruffled about the match. He didn't seem to think it was the disaster, apart from winning, that we on here think it was. He was very understanding about the generally poor performance. He seems to be a bloke who would say that it was unacceptable if he thought it was, so that's good news. Our manager isn't on the verge of giving up with this lot , he seems to be OK with it and could rationalize the performances. I think he was being genuine about it as well.

Seems like a sensible fella.
 
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