Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Dave Smith]

I don’t understand why people claim this season was over before Amorim arrived. Look at the actual points:

• When Ten Hag left, there was a 7-point gap to the Champions League places, with 29 matches to go.
• When Ruud left, there was a 4-point gap to the Champions League places, with 27 matches to go.

These gaps are not ideal, but with so many games left, it’s not unreasonable to think there is a chance to get back in the fight. Also, at that point, we were still in all the competitions. Even form was not that bad when Amorim came in. The last 5 games under Ten Hag and Ruud (including the League Cup) are 3 wins, 1 draw, and 1 loss. The further you go back to the start of the season, the worse it gets.

I don't understand how the season could be a write-off at that point?

Now is the time that we are getting closer and closer to a write-off. Form is dipping, we are 12 points off Champions League places, and we’re out of the League Cup. Only Europa is going a little bit better. That is why i don't understand that some are looking at these results and are already concluding that this is the right guy that will bring success? He deserves time and he will get it, but i have doubts. For now it is fine, but i feel like we are in a place where things can spiral out of control real fast.

Very true. At the time ETH/Ruud where let go it felt like another season where the club where treading water and there would be a push in the later half of the season to paper over the cracks. Say a 5-8th finish, maybe a cup. Was it an ideal situation? No. However, massive payout to Sporting mid-season for Amorim seemed more dangerous - despite him being a (very) good manager. I mean SJR only had to look at the Potter situation at Chelsea to see how that could go wrong quickly despite the manager being a good bloke/manager. This looked like a situation where SJR panicked and thought doing something looked better than doing nothing.

The fear ATM has to be the spiral. I do not think Utd will get relegated, simply because of how poor the bottom 4-5 are. However, the outside noise if two heavy defeats are inflicted by the Dippers and Newcastle are then followed by a poor showing at Soton is going to crank up the volume to 11.

 

[sglowrider]

Very true. At the time ETH/Ruud where let go it felt like another season where the club where treading water and there would be a push in the later half of the season to paper over the cracks. Say a 5-8th finish, maybe a cup. Was it an ideal situation? No. However, massive payout to Sporting mid-season for Amorim seemed more dangerous - despite him being a (very) good manager. I mean SJR only had to look at the Potter situation at Chelsea to see how that could go wrong quickly despite the manager being a good bloke/manager. This looked like a situation where SJR panicked and thought doing something looked better than doing nothing.

The fear ATM has to be the spiral. I do not think Utd will get relegated, simply because of how poor the bottom 4-5 are. However, the outside noise if two heavy defeats are inflicted by the Dippers and Newcastle are then followed by a poor showing at Soton is going to crank up the volume to 11.

The previous clubs Ratcliffe brought were supposedly learning platforms for the Big One.

 

[Ljungster]

Well he needs to see what have been shown: we have scored ALL of our goals since he took over when we have played a winger at the wingback.. When we have played 2 fullbacks we have scored 0 goals... If he fails to see that then he will deserve to get fired sooner than later

 

[AneRu]

You seemingly misunderstood the point. Top managers tend to not want midseason moves because they are particularly difficult and top managers have the option to chose their moves. The point had nothing to with credentials but the challenging nature of midseason moves.

Also Zidane didn't join a new club, he was coaching Real Madrid's B team.

For Zidane it was a promotion, obvious the balance of power was lopsided with the club as he was unproven in his first stint.

 

[JPRouve]

For Zidane it was a promotion, obvious the balance of power was lopsided with the club as he was unproven in his first stint.

Yeah. The same is true for Flick or Nagelsmann.

 

[The Constant Gardener]

Even Amorim himself said he is at risk.

He's on a 2.5 year x £6.5m contract. If the United hierarchy have to make a decision when the club in a relegation battle, perhaps with 10 games to go, then the costs of firing him compared to dropping down a division pale in comparison.

Let's not kid ourselves - it is a results driven business, no one is exempt from this requirement.

 

[Judas]

say we are flirting with the bottom three, I’m assuming all those saying he should be sacked will want a relegation battling specialist type manager brought in?

 

[Rasmus_9]

Well he needs to see what have been shown: we have scored ALL of our goals since he took over when we have played a winger at the wingback.. When we have played 2 fullbacks we have scored 0 goals... If he fails to see that then he will deserve to get fired sooner than later

I agree! This is a massive concern from his time with us so far. Some poor judgement calls particularly with wing backs. Playing Dalot LWB, Malacia LWB (twice) It’s patently obvious this team needs pacey WB’s that can support our painfully poor attackers. Playing two defenders means we have zero creativity

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree! This is a massive concern from his time with us so far. Some poor judgement calls particularly with wing backs. Playing Dalot LWB, Malacia LWB (twice) It’s patently obvious this team needs pacey WB’s that can support our painfully poor attackers. Playing two defenders means we have zero creativity

He can’t play Amad as a wing back when we need him as a 10. Mount getting injured has reduced the options at 10 and, hence, wing back. We’re not exactly spoilt for choice with players who can play either of those roles. Without Bruno this won’t change before our next game either.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Even Amorim himself said he is at risk.

He's on a 2.5 year x £6.5m contract. If the United hierarchy have to make a decision when the club in a relegation battle, perhaps with 10 games to go, then the costs of firing him compared to dropping down a division pale in comparison.

Let's not kid ourselves - it is a results driven business, no one is exempt from this requirement.

The Telegraph brought up this relegation talk, had a couple of doom mongering headlined articles about it, then proceeded to predict the outcome of all our remaining games, and they still had us finishing on 50 points.

The point is we won't come close to been in a relegation battle, we probabaly won't even end up finishing in the bottom half.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If he can’t unearth a few gems from the youth set up I can see him gone by this time next year. There’s no way he can shift all the shitbirds in our squad for enough money to cover the refresh that’s needed to get players comfortable with his style of play. The likes of Kukonki, Martin, Lacey, Amass, Fitzgerald might need to come good for him to be successful.

So the next manager will shift them, it is the powers that be who shift the players not the manager. He can only suggest who he wants gone.

 

[JPRouve]

He can’t play Amad as a wing back when we need him as a 10. Mount getting injured has reduced the options at 10 and, hence, wing back. We’re not exactly spoilt for choice with players who can play either of those roles. Without Bruno this won’t change before our next game either.

An option would be Mainoo as a 10 and front two with both Zirkzee and Hojlund.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

An option would be Mainoo as a 10 and front two with both Zirkzee and Hojlund.

Please God, no. Hojlund and Zirkzee are frustrating enough to watch when there’s just one of them starting at a time. My TV would 100% be getting kicked in if I had to watch them both start a match together.

I agree that we should consider giving Mainoo a go as one of our 10s, mind you.

 

[JPRouve]

Please God, no. Hojlund and Zirkzee are frustrating enough to watch when there’s just one of them starting at a time. My TV would 100% be getting kicked in if I had to watch them both start a match together.

I agree that we should consider giving Mainoo a go as one of our 10s, mind you.

On paper it may be frustrating but you do what you have to do. Without Amad as a wingback our transition play has been at his worst and that's not even remotely debatable. If you have Amad as a 10 and Mazraoui-Dalot as wingback, you did nothing, not only you have a dead attack but you are not less frustrating to watch.

Until we either bring AMs or proper wingbacks, we will have to compromise and Amad as wingback with two strikers is the best option when you don't even have one good AM.

 

[Eric's-collar]

An option would be Mainoo as a 10 and front two with both Zirkzee and Hojlund.

Erickson could play 10 surely

 

[Eric's-collar]

I'd give Antony a chance at LWB, totally left footed n couldn't be any worse than Dalot

 

[DJ_21]

Amorim should consider changing to a 3-5-2. We don’t have the 10s to play what he wants. Shore up the midfield. I watched Inter play last night and they was very good in possession with the 3 CM doing triangles. The link up with zirkzee and Højlund could be good. Give them both what they need. Midfield 3 of Eriksen, Ugarte and Mainoo could work.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

On paper it may be frustrating but you do what you have to do. Without Amad as a wingback our transition play has been at his worst and that's not even remotely debatable. If you have Amad as a 10 and Mazraoui-Dalot as wingback, you did nothing, not only you have a dead attack but you are not less frustrating to watch.

Until we either bring AMs or proper wingbacks, we will have to compromise and Amad as wingback with two strikers is the best option when you don't even have one good AM.

It’s definitely debatable. Some of our best attacking football under Amorim was the last 15 minutes of the first half and final 30 against Bournemouth. With the xG to prove it. So we are absolutely capable of creating chances with Dalot and Maz as wingbacks. The one consistent in us looking good going forward has actually been when Bruno plays as one of the two CMs. With Mainoo/Ugarte there we’ve struggled. Eriksen seems to also help when he’s involved.

People are getting extremely hung up on wing backs because watching Dalot waste 1v1s against Wolves was so frustrating but I think getting the midfield balance right has been just as influential on how effective we are going forwards.

 

[jem]

From the Guardian’s mid-season fan verdicts (feck I hate reading the Liverpool fan’s triumphal blather!), here is what a Forest fan says about Nuno:

“He’s outstanding. For a few fans the jury was out on Nuno after last season, which really wasn’t fair – the stress of refereeing battles, points deductions and the rest was always going to make it difficult. This season he has proven the benefit of a pre-season (and the players have said the same), and has been tactically astute.”

If we’re patient and he’s backed, I think we’ll be saying similar about our own Portuguese manager this time next year.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From the Guardian’s mid-season fan verdicts (feck I hate reading the Liverpool fan’s triumphal blather!), here is what a Forest fan says about Nuno:

“He’s outstanding. For a few fans the jury was out on Nuno after last season, which really wasn’t fair – the stress of refereeing battles, points deductions and the rest was always going to make it difficult. This season he has proven the benefit of a pre-season (and the players have said the same), and has been tactically astute.”

If we’re patient and he’s backed, I think we’ll be saying similar about our own Portuguese manager this time next year.

Bournemouth fans would say the same about Iraola. He had the benefit of a pre-season but still had a very slow start. If we were at the equivalent point in his first season we would have another month to wait before we win our first match.

 

[JPRouve]

Erickson could play 10 surely

He could but he isn't good enough today and he isn't a mid to long term option, so to me it's a waste of time. I would focus on finding roles and combinations that are centered around players that are younger and have room for mid to long term development. Also we have tried all the other combinations.

 

[Red Company]

I think firing Ashworth might have compounded the pressure on Amorim.. even though he may have been promised a long term future, in the back of his head, he’s probably thinking, he could be let go sooner than later if needed

 

[jem]

Bournemouth fans would say the same about Iraola. He had the benefit of a pre-season but still had a very slow start. If we were at the equivalent point in his first season we would have another month to wait before we win our first match.

Yeah, it seems so obvious: yes the results have been terrible but we must be patient and back him. I’ve said it elsewhere in these pages, but I see the form of Ugarte as a beacon of hope: even though Ruben didn’t buy him, he’s the kind of player he’d look to bring in to fit his system (compare with ETH bringing in his player in Antony.). Get more of those and results will follow.

 

[VP89]

I think firing Ashworth might have compounded the pressure on Amorim.. even though he may have been promised a long term future, in the back of his head, he’s probably thinking, he could be let go sooner than later if needed

I think its the opposite. From all the briefs Ashworth wasnt an Amorim guy and getting rid of him doubled down conviction on Amorim. Theyl give him as much time as needed as a result.

 

[Acquire Me]

I think firing Ashworth might have compounded the pressure on Amorim.. even though he may have been promised a long term future, in the back of his head, he’s probably thinking, he could be let go sooner than later if needed

Not at all. Amorim is not under pressure from Ineos. The pressure comes from unreasonable fans and journalists.

While it would have been better for Amorim to start from pre season, the positives starting now is the cultural rebuilding. Getting rid of assholes like Rashford and others not remotely good enough has already started. That’s a good thing.

I really don’t care about results right now. Let Amorim work and the results will come.

 

[JPRouve]

Not at all. Amorim is not under pressure from Ineos. The pressure comes from unreasonable fans and journalists.

While it would have been better for Amorim to start from pre season, the positives starting now is the cultural rebuilding. Getting rid of assholes like Rashford and others not remotely good enough has already started. That’s a good thing.

I really don’t care about results right now. Let Amorim work and the results will come.

It's probably a bit pedantic but the pressure isn't unreasonable. All professional managers have a high level of pressure on them whether it comes from themselves, their club or fans and journalists. The best managers thrive in that environment and the others fail. And the pressure is always there in good and bad times. What is unreasonable at times are short term expectations.

 

[Acquire Me]

It's probably a bit pedantic but the pressure isn't unreasonable. All professional managers have a high level of pressure on them whether it comes from themselves, their club or fans and journalists. The best managers thrive in that environment and the others fail. And the pressure is always there in good and bad times. What is unreasonable at times are short term expectations.

Of course it will be pressure at a top club like Manchester United. What’s unreasonable from fans and journalists is exactly the short term expectations. Obviously we all want to see us win and thrive, but right now we are finding ourselves in a difficult situation. This situation will not last, but it will be present for at least the reminder of this season.

Amorim has been very good at handling the pressure. Players with power and huge popularity like Rashford have nothing on him and that fact alone makes me excited. Amorim will be the end of Rashford.

 

[JPRouve]

Of course it will be pressure at a top club like Manchester United. What’s unreasonable from fans and journalists is exactly the short term expectations. Obviously we all want to see us win and thrive, but right now we are finding ourselves in a difficult situation. This situation will not last, but it will be present for at least the reminder of this season.

Amorim has been very good at handling the pressure. Players with power and huge popularity like Rashford have nothing on him and that fact alone makes me excited. Amorim will be the end of Rashford.

Then we agree. I make a distinction because pressure is omnipresent at all levels not just top clubs and managers or players that can't handle pressure won't succeed, and some managers/players tend to hide from it. And to be a bit more explicit, there is no less pressure at the bottom of the league, in fact there is more pressure there because the consequences of not reaching reasonable expectations are dramatic for many people within and around the club from an economic and sometimes social standpoint, players will often have to find new clubs as do managers, many staff members but this extends to businesses that are related to the club and families are affected

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I do wonder how Amorim feels about the endless witchhunt the media are orchestrating against the players or if it is working against him. On the one hand it is excusing and distracting from bad performances where the media have convinced fans this squad is impossible to beat wolves with, on the other hand we know we don't have the ability to turn over the squad like we used to so he will know he is stuck with this squad regardless of how many stories the media write or how many tantrums the fans throw.

 

[NLunited]

I don’t understand why people claim this season was over before Amorim arrived. Look at the actual points:

• When Ten Hag left, there was a 7-point gap to the Champions League places, with 29 matches to go.
• When Ruud left, there was a 4-point gap to the Champions League places, with 27 matches to go.

These gaps are not ideal, but with so many games left, it’s not unreasonable to think there is a chance to get back in the fight. Also, at that point, we were still in all the competitions. Even form was not that bad when Amorim came in. The last 5 games under Ten Hag and Ruud (including the League Cup) are 3 wins, 1 draw, and 1 loss. The further you go back to the start of the season, the worse it gets.

I don't understand how the season could be a write-off at that point?

Now is the time that we are getting closer and closer to a write-off. Form is dipping, we are 12 points off Champions League places, and we’re out of the League Cup. Only Europa is going a little bit better. That is why i don't understand that some are looking at these results and are already concluding that this is the right guy that will bring success? He deserves time and he will get it, but i have doubts. For now it is fine, but i feel like we are in a place where things can spiral out of control real fast.

Things are shiit right now, but I still think we have hired a very good coach. Too many losses will see him sacked, that‘s the unfortunate reality at MU.

It probably would have been bettter to stick with Ten Hag or Ruud until the summer, and then hire Amorim. This is hindsight though.

 

[Toshey]

oh dear, new day, same shite.

"But Amorim why don't you throw your football principles in the trash, to get some short term results?!?! Just let Bruno kick it long to Rashy and Garnachy! Good managers are flexible you know!!!"

NO.
No. No. No.

It's time to create something, time to set the team on a new path. Even if it means a bunch of bad results.

Tbh if we manage to win EL, I couldn't care less if we finsih 14th. Definitely smarter to pursue CL football through there.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I don’t understand why people claim this season was over before Amorim arrived. Look at the actual points:

• When Ten Hag left, there was a 7-point gap to the Champions League places, with 29 matches to go.
• When Ruud left, there was a 4-point gap to the Champions League places, with 27 matches to go.

These gaps are not ideal, but with so many games left, it’s not unreasonable to think there is a chance to get back in the fight. Also, at that point, we were still in all the competitions. Even form was not that bad when Amorim came in. The last 5 games under Ten Hag and Ruud (including the League Cup) are 3 wins, 1 draw, and 1 loss. The further you go back to the start of the season, the worse it gets.

I don't understand how the season could be a write-off at that point?

Now is the time that we are getting closer and closer to a write-off. Form is dipping, we are 12 points off Champions League places, and we’re out of the League Cup. Only Europa is going a little bit better. That is why i don't understand that some are looking at these results and are already concluding that this is the right guy that will bring success? He deserves time and he will get it, but i have doubts. For now it is fine, but i feel like we are in a place where things can spiral out of control real fast.

I think the main reason fans thought it was a write off is because the current narrative has to be that the squad can't possibly beat wolves, to protect the new manager. They say we are mid table until we can sign a whole new team.

If we were just a bit more honest we could come up with slightly more nuanced arguments to allow the manager a grace period, but that is not how football fans work.

 

[Dannn411]

Funny as it may seem right now, I have a good feeling about Amorim that I haven't had of any other coach in the post-Fergie era. This terrible period is needed to show to everyone at the club the scale of work required for a turnaround. But it is temporary and I believe that between Amorim and the higher-ups there is enough footballing brain power to know what needs to be done over the next 8 months to put us back in good stead again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don’t understand why people claim this season was over before Amorim arrived. Look at the actual points:

• When Ten Hag left, there was a 7-point gap to the Champions League places, with 29 matches to go.
• When Ruud left, there was a 4-point gap to the Champions League places, with 27 matches to go.

These gaps are not ideal, but with so many games left, it’s not unreasonable to think there is a chance to get back in the fight. Also, at that point, we were still in all the competitions. Even form was not that bad when Amorim came in. The last 5 games under Ten Hag and Ruud (including the League Cup) are 3 wins, 1 draw, and 1 loss. The further you go back to the start of the season, the worse it gets.

I don't understand how the season could be a write-off at that point?

Now is the time that we are getting closer and closer to a write-off. Form is dipping, we are 12 points off Champions League places, and we’re out of the League Cup. Only Europa is going a little bit better. That is why i don't understand that some are looking at these results and are already concluding that this is the right guy that will bring success? He deserves time and he will get it, but i have doubts. For now it is fine, but i feel like we are in a place where things can spiral out of control real fast.

You’re completely ignoring the fixture list. A common refrain from those who are refusing to show Amorim any patience (although often pretending that they are) We were in a tail spin under ETH and things only looked slightly more promising under Ruud when we won the easiest fixture in the season so far. We’ve no reason to think we’d have beaten Everton or City according to our form from the earlier parts of the season, never mind winning the potential banana skin fixtures either side of the derby.

And that’s also ignoring our atrocious form in Europe where two wins under Amorim are already an improvement and drawing or losing those games could have finished our season in Europe already.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the main reason fans thought it was a write off is because the current narrative has to be that the squad can't possibly beat wolves, to protect the new manager. They say we are mid table until we can sign a whole new team.

If we were just a bit more honest we could come up with slightly more nuanced arguments to allow the manager a grace period, but that is not how football fans work.

We can all attribute completely fictional narratives to other people if you want? But that won’t help with the nuanced arguments you seem to be looking for.

I honestly don’t think I’ve read a single post saying we shouldn’t have beaten Wolves. It’s one of the rare unanimous opinions on here at the moment. Obviously Bruno’s stupid (and unfair?) red card gave us an uphill battle, so there is nuance there if you look for it.

 

[NZT-One]

say we are flirting with the bottom three, I’m assuming all those saying he should be sacked will want a relegation battling specialist type manager brought in?

I am pretty sure, if push comes to shove, Amorim is smart enough to turn on some sort of results-first football to grind out results. With staying deep, less risk and fast counters. Ole made it work quite well, ETH had more than a little success with it, Amorim will be no different. The important thing is not settling for this kind of football. Which is something Ole never did, where ETH failed and where we are witnessing Amorim right now.

It’s definitely debatable. Some of our best attacking football under Amorim was the last 15 minutes of the first half and final 30 against Bournemouth. With the xG to prove it. So we are absolutely capable of creating chances with Dalot and Maz as wingbacks. The one consistent in us looking good going forward has actually been when Bruno plays as one of the two CMs. With Mainoo/Ugarte there we’ve struggled. Eriksen seems to also help when he’s involved.

People are getting extremely hung up on wing backs because watching Dalot waste 1v1s against Wolves was so frustrating but I think getting the midfield balance right has been just as influential on how effective we are going forwards.

I think, this was pretty much helped by Bournemouth leading 3:0. Just like Wolves, Bournemouth did change their approach at a certain point in time and both teams struggled a bit and became nervous. I think, currently Amad is the only player with a degree of x-factor in our squad so we have to bring him into situations where he can play his strong cards. That probably means WB, I agree with the other poster in that respect, but at the same time - our opponents aren't blind they noticed that he is the one player that has to be contained these days so maybe it doesn't really matter where he plays because opponents will be ready to make life very difficult for him.

 

[Zlatan 7]

You’re completely ignoring the fixture list. A common refrain from those who are refusing to show Amorim any patience (although often pretending that they are) We were in a tail spin under ETH and things only looked slightly more promising under Ruud when we won the easiest fixture in the season so far. We’ve no reason to think we’d have beaten Everton or City according to our form from the earlier parts of the season, never mind winning the potential banana skin fixtures either side of the derby.

And that’s also ignoring our atrocious form in Europe where two wins under Amorim are already an improvement and drawing or losing those games could have finished our season in Europe already.

Yes. Exactly this.

I’ve seen people saying we we were better under ruud, we played Leicester twice ffs. Amorim has had a real shitty start with fixtures to be fair to him

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think, this was pretty much helped by Bournemouth leading 3:0. Just like Wolves, Bournemouth did change their approach at a certain point in time and both teams struggled a bit and became nervous. I think, currently Amad is the only player with a degree of x-factor in our squad so we have to bring him into situations where he can play his strong cards. That probably means WB, I agree with the other poster in that respect, but at the same time - our opponents aren't blind they noticed that he is the one player that has to be contained these days so maybe it doesn't really matter where he plays because opponents will be ready to make life very difficult for him.

I specifically mentioned the 15 minutes before half time vs Bournemouth as this didn’t happen when they were leading 3-0. We’ve definitely looked more like scoring when we’re chasing games but that’s par for the course. The main thing is we have looked like we could score in those situations. Which is encouraging. Slightly less so against Wolves but we were a man down.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

We can all attribute completely fictional narratives to other people if you want? But that won’t help with the nuanced arguments you seem to be looking for.

I honestly don’t think I’ve read a single post saying we shouldn’t have beaten Wolves. It’s one of the rare unanimous opinions on here at the moment. Obviously Bruno’s stupid (and unfair?) red card gave us an uphill battle, so there is nuance there if you look for it.

Even on the red card mate instead of saying what you said most of the conversation is about how Bruno has to go, presumably because scapegoat 1 in rashford cannot be blamed so Bruno is next. Very few people in the hours after actually questioned what looked to me like a ridiculous red card because again they can get more angry if they pretend Bruno predictably threw the game away due to weak mentality or similar.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Even on the red card mate instead of saying what you said most of the conversation is about how Bruno has to go, presumably because scapegoat 1 in rashford cannot be blamed so Bruno is next. Very few people in the hours after actually questioned what looked to me like a ridiculous red card because again they can get more angry if they pretend Bruno predictably threw the game away due to weak mentality or similar.

I love Bruno but there was no defending that card. It was a clear second yellow