what happens next? it looks like the players downed tools as if it was 3rd season with him, only at 10 games in, reminds me of Rangnick situation. How does he construct a team for the next 6 months when he has 3 players willing do work for him?
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
3 players in Jan, promote some youth, bench Bruno and give Dalot a rest. Only play Mainoo in No10, play Casemiro and Ugarte in midfield for now for stability.
Why is Eriksen no option at 10? He used to be world class at 10, and he is still pretty damn good at it when he plays for Denmark. He is no pivot player. He wasn´t very good yesterday in the Bruno role, but we gained a lot more composure and control with him playing in a more forward role despite being a man down.
Bournemouth??
You people are just holding on to straws now.
Wolves and Bournemouth scored 5 goals against us, without us scoring even a goal. But things are okay.
In the last 5 league games, we have lost 4 games won 1.
1 game won, was against City.
We are second last on form list for the last 5 games. Even City are ahead of us in 5 last games.
Even Leicester are above us on form. Only S'oton are below us.
People need to accept, probably Amorim is not elite as it should be. We need to also have the realization as a club that we can get poor managers.
What guarantee do we have if we sign 11 new players we will win the league? Absolutely Nothing.
Remember we are competing against other top clubs, those other clubs are not waiting for United to come and win trophies.
Can Amorim compete against other 19 EPL managers?
Does he need 11 experts to beat teams like Wolves, Bournemouth and Ipswich?
This cycle we've been through it time and time again.
ETH needed FdJ to unleash his prowess.
Ole neeeded a Pogba companion to show us what's needed.
Now Amorim needs wingbacks to show us modern football.
When such talks starts to creep in, just know we have a very limited manager.
Give Amorim current Liverpool team, it would be disjointed as much, he would have said ( we need new wingbacks, we will suffer) , now Dippers are winning the league with a new manager, with zero signings, after finishing 3rd last season, after his prime Klopp left.
Football is not complicated. It's us United who make it so complicated.
Ac Milan and Barcelona have won their leagues after bigger problems than our problems, us we are now again on 4 year cycle to just compete.
Even Chelsea is starting to compete before us, yet they have gone through worse problems than us.
Fans wanted a system, we finally get a manager who has one and now you want him out within a month, lol?
You can quote me on this, not even Guardiola or Fergie can win with this lot. Until people finally realise we have mentally weak limited technically players, we will keep blaming everyone except them.
Our star boy has decided to check out after being told to run in training, says it all.
It really is sad how a number of "fans" on here are already gunning for Amorim.
Cleaely have zero understanding of what the problems are.
Cleaely have zero understanding of what the problems are.
I don’t think they’ve downed tools (Rashford the exception downed them a long long time ago) I think it’s just a very average squad . Look at our bench yesterday it’s not even inspiring and it’s practically our best squad bar 2 sicknotes and a player that wants to leave.
We need to take emotion out of it.
Amorim is not the problem. Just give him
time - at least a few month
time - at least a few month
I've got to be honest the results so far are worse than I expected and the next three games could be three straight losses, but this is a long term project . Amorim wanted to start in the summer for a reason but that option was taken off the table for him. He knew it would be difficult but we hired him for a reason and he deserves a couple of windows before anyone writes him off.
I would still much rather be where we are right now than where we have been recently. And there is absolutely no way he should change his system. No way.
I would still much rather be where we are right now than where we have been recently. And there is absolutely no way he should change his system. No way.
Not sure on that one. Liverpool's situation was awful in 2016. And even then, they reached the Europa final and had that comeback win over Dortmund for the fans to have something to cling onto.
You're correct on the 2nd point...
This remains my view of the situation. The manager won't get 18 months in the job if he sticks with these tactics and we keep losing.
He needs to be slightly pragmatic for a while and try to get something from the reminder of the campaign.
This job is only really comparable to Real Madrid. The spotlight is intense and you very rarely get the chance to build something from scratch if performances in the short term fall apart.
Good points. Just can’t believe how far behind we are in setting the team up. If Amorim eventually gets the sack, we’d be stuck in this continuing vicious cycle.
The worry is we’ve seen this before.. team is in a free fall. We know this team, we know the tools are or will soon be downed. Can he even survive until the summer?
I feel so very low about the club right now to be honest. On and off the pitch. Just hope Amorim is afforded the time and support to change things.
This squad has a modus operandi, they have sacked many managers, it's time the culprits got sacked. Bruno, Rashford, Shaw and many others can go. Until the slate is clear we will still have same issues.
Look at the team Klopp inherited vsbwhenbhe left. Same with Guardiola. And Chelsea. Sometimes the old starting lineups need to be phased out. People laughed at Ragnick but he clocked how Sh** our squad was even the basics and was 100% correct. Just ETH papered over the cracks in his first season.
Managers do not buy football players. Football clubs buy football players. Even if the club only bought players ten Hag wanted, it's the clubs mistake for not aligning their purchases with their vision.
The fact that they bought all these players for a certain system, to then sign the one managing prospect who plays a radically different system says a fair bit about how this club is (still) run. Now our biggest assets in terms of value do not fit anywhere on the pitch (see Garnacho, Bruno for instance) and we are severely lacking in key areas for the new system (think wingbacks and channel 10's).
So no, ten Hag didn't create this mess. Ten Hag was part of the mess that is created by the people running the club and ten Hag has been scapegoated by the fanbase for everything that went wrong so to not look at the big picture. Ten Hag didn't ruin the squad, squad planning or lack thereoff did. He didn't ruin the stadium, didn't ruin the press office, didn't sack half the workforce, didn't let mice loose in the stadium and so on and so on.
Our form is making me hate football. I don’t even look forward to watching us anymore.
The current situation is far from ideal. He needs to do far better with the current set of players before being trusted with funds for new signings. At this rate, we're drifting further from the top six, and, based on recent form, we seem to be heading towards a relegation battle. He needs to turn things around quickly, or he may soon find himself on the chopping block.
Haven't been wowed by the system yet either. Our already poor attack, has regressed to the point where we’re recording a meager 0.23 xG against teams fighting relegation. It's also why I find it funny when people clamour for Gyokeres or Osimhen and keep repeating our strikers are shit. What do people think is going to happen? That they'll score hat tricks from 0.23 xG?
Owen made an annoying yet valid point after yesterday’s game. Even after a year, it’s hard to gauge how good Hojlund truly is because we rarely create anything for him. Any striker in the world would struggle when we create so little.
The only players who seem to have benefitted since Amorim has come in are Ugarte and Amad. However, Amad has been poor in the last two games, and unless he steps up soon, it might look like his good form was just a brief purple patch.
Our set pieces have also become worse since Amorim has come in to a point where we are now conceding from them every single game. It wasn't this bad under ETH. Under ETH, I don't think we've ever let in a goal directly from corner kick and now we've had 2 in 2 weeks under Amorim. And if the same issue happened under two different GKs then it points towards a tactical issue that Amorim needs to rectify for me.
To be clear, I’m not claiming we have the best squad in the league, but it’s certainly not the 14th-best either, nor is it the worst squad we’ve ever assembled, as some suggest. If Amorim fails to better last season’s 8th-place finish, he’s no better than ETH and doesn’t deserve another season in charge in my opinion.
Haven't been wowed by the system yet either. Our already poor attack, has regressed to the point where we’re recording a meager 0.23 xG against teams fighting relegation. It's also why I find it funny when people clamour for Gyokeres or Osimhen and keep repeating our strikers are shit. What do people think is going to happen? That they'll score hat tricks from 0.23 xG?
Owen made an annoying yet valid point after yesterday’s game. Even after a year, it’s hard to gauge how good Hojlund truly is because we rarely create anything for him. Any striker in the world would struggle when we create so little.
The only players who seem to have benefitted since Amorim has come in are Ugarte and Amad. However, Amad has been poor in the last two games, and unless he steps up soon, it might look like his good form was just a brief purple patch.
Our set pieces have also become worse since Amorim has come in to a point where we are now conceding from them every single game. It wasn't this bad under ETH. Under ETH, I don't think we've ever let in a goal directly from corner kick and now we've had 2 in 2 weeks under Amorim. And if the same issue happened under two different GKs then it points towards a tactical issue that Amorim needs to rectify for me.
To be clear, I’m not claiming we have the best squad in the league, but it’s certainly not the 14th-best either, nor is it the worst squad we’ve ever assembled, as some suggest. If Amorim fails to better last season’s 8th-place finish, he’s no better than ETH and doesn’t deserve another season in charge in my opinion.
Nobody wanted a mere system.
We wanted to win big trophies.
Yes, the easiest way to win trophies and be top dog is by using a very simple formula.. Which is having a way to play then upgrade it, season by season.
ETH didn't have this.
Now, this is where Amorim is failing.
1. Does it mean he needs 11 new experts to beat Wolves, Bournemouth, Ipswich or Spurs?
2. What guarantee do we have the new 11 experts will deliver success when he cants construct is ' ideal' team using the current players.
3. What if 343 is found out in EPL what next? Even mighty Pep has been found out.
As I said, give Amorim Liverpool team on July 2024, he would have dismantled the team and build it his way.
Now the problem is here, Liverpool are competing with ZERO investment done to the team. Even if Amorim would have made them champions it would have come at a cost ( dismantling the team).
So it's not linear as people are trying to make it.
Amorim needs to win games, how only him should know. But us, we need wins with what he has. Let him get the maximum from this group for people to trust he can deliver success if conditions are ideal.
Amorim has binned off Rashford, good or bad decision people will argue both ways, but results have tanked completely in the last few games. Does it mean Rashford can not contribute anything for us now?
Also we've been here before...
ETH binned off Ronaldo, we've have never had a striker score 17 goals in league ever since.
ETH binned off Sancho, Sancho is contributing in Chelsea
We are worse now as team than when they were here. Ronaldo told us, ETH is not a good coach, now it's an acceptable thing to claim ETH was a very poor coach.
As you see, binning off a Player doesn't always end up being positive for us as a club. Again I will say, a good coach usually plays with his available players to the maximum.
The signs are not positive as we speak, hopefully Amorim will turn the tide but people should be acceptable to the fact it can go wrong
Amorim knows how to buy great players. And he also knows how to assemble title winning squad.
Unless we get an unexpected win against Newcastle on Monday evening, or a holy miracle at Anfield, next weekend, we are already set for 3 more straight defeats.
Total failure and humiliation over this period won’t come as a shock to anyone, so fans need to be pragmatic about our situation.
From the Southampton game onwards, there might be a glimmer of hope that Amorim can get this shower to perform consistently and improve our luck.
There isn’t going to be some mass influx of better players in January, maybe one or possibly two, but that might not happen.
This is the squad he has to work with for the rest of the season and we’re going to have to suck it up, whatever happens.
Total failure and humiliation over this period won’t come as a shock to anyone, so fans need to be pragmatic about our situation.
From the Southampton game onwards, there might be a glimmer of hope that Amorim can get this shower to perform consistently and improve our luck.
There isn’t going to be some mass influx of better players in January, maybe one or possibly two, but that might not happen.
This is the squad he has to work with for the rest of the season and we’re going to have to suck it up, whatever happens.
Totally agree with this. Fans will still be yapping about player selection or the system, but the problems are so much bigger. Until we bring in new players, Amorim is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
when he was rumoured to be arriving, I knew it was another pointless exercise. Throwing money, players and managers at the problem will not solve it. You need a massive clear out and to start from scratch. You don’t need a manager to do that. Amorim isn’t familiar enough with the club. You’d be best served asking Christiano Ronaldo! The club needs to be completely gutted. Every penny spent on players from now until that happens is a complete waste.
In Amorim's system, you don't need experts in each position, just the right profile of player and it works, he successfully chopped and change players and still got results at sporting.
Good players can adapt, that's why he praised Amad and Mazraoui as the future of the team. His system has exposed the limits of tej players further.
Also you mention fans wanted trophies, yesterday to an extent they do, but even after 2 fro ETH the football was so dire,they still wanted better football. With Ruben you can see improvement objectively in the stats. We just need to iron out the individual mistakes and change some players.
ETH was given years and people are turning on Amorim after a month,
.The crazy thing is it’s a downgrade from a not very good squad to begin with. That 2020/21 squad is a pale shadow of the squad we actually won major trophies with.
Terrible post. Amorim don't need 11 specialists, he needs players sold into playing fecking football, not moaning and sulking.
Something that Rashford has stopped doing for at least a couple of years.
Barely any different to our form under ETH so I still won’t criticise him. These players are fecking grim, and for that we should be criticising ETH.
Difference being, Liverpool already had a much better squad than us, a much much better squad so a although it’s surprised me how well they’ve done up until now, huge investment wasn’t needed, unlike it is for us.
Aargh, gotcha neighbor!
Agree, our levels have dropped so low, that a player surplus to Bayern's requirements comes in shames up our squad by being levels better.
Yeah as has been mentioned he didn't want to start mid season. So it was either last summer or next summer. Instead our geniuses triggered ETH's option on his contract and god help us spent more money on players he wanted. I had to be reminded that Amorim did not want to come in until next summer, but the club forced his hand. So the squad was in an even bigger mess than it was at the end of last season. If Ineos do not back him and give him time to gradually rebuild this squad I will lose faith in them completely. The only players showing an ounce of fight at the moment are Ugarte, Maz and Amad, the rest are either useless, lazy or mentally fragile, some all three.
Ugarte can’t get a game at a poor PSG side and is instantly our best player. Maybe we need to target more bench players at big clubs? Because that’s how far we’ve fallen.
Would be a good start, could we nick a few from Madrid while we at it!
Ineos were supposedly choosing the system they wanted the team to play and have picked a manager to suit. That was why he needed to come in the summer and the rebuild start then. The people running the club, even in the short time they have been here, have set us back a couple of years.
Hi Ruben
If you are reading this, you must be really desperate for a solution to your problems.
Nevertheless. Here is my suggestion, what you should do to prepare for the Newcastle game:
Stick with Onana. Yes. I know, but Bayindir was even worse. Talk him up. Force him to watch his best Serie A moments ten times a day to get his confidence back.
Rip Bruno of his Captainship and let him fight for his place. He does not deserve special treatment anymore.
Move Anthony to the LWB-position. He is the only left-foot with the attributes to potentially do well there. Make him cross till he drops in training.
Let Amad or Dalot play RWB. It is obvious, that Dalot is wasted on the left. The guy can´t cross with his left foot if his life depended on it. Let them cross till they drop in training. I prefer Amad, because he will try to beat a man. We are lacking that.
Mazraoui was really good at LCB. Move him back there. If it ain´t broke, don´t fix it.
Maguire and De Ligt are both good in the middle of the back three, but don´t play them elsewhere. They are slow and will get exposed. (Play both for the Liverpool game though, where we will stand deep. They are really good at dealing with crosses.)
Keep Yoro in for speed. He has not been that good, but he needs to play to get anywhere. There is a good player in there.
Ugarte is out. That is a problem. He fits your system almost as good as Hjulmand did at Sporting. Talk to him about taking too many risks though. He is collecting way too many yellows, and that is hurting us now.
Casemiro is slow, but he is still the best option to replace Ugarte for the Newcastle game. He is also an asset on corners.
Mainoo has lost his mojo this season, and should be benched for a while. With Bruno and Ugarte out, your first instinct will probably be to go with Eriksen. Don´t. He is too slow to defend the Newcastle/Liverpool midfield, and he is also needed elsewhere. Let Martinez play here for the Newcastle game, He can pass, and he can win back the ball, which is what we need. We really need to get a new player in for this position in the January window.
Eriksen should finally get to play at 10, setting the attacking players up. This is his best position, and he can still do real damage here. We only got control/composure, after Casemiro and Eriksen came on yesterday.
For the other AM-position it is a toss up. If you go with Dalot at RWB, I would play Amad here, but I would rather see Amad on RWB. That leaves you with Mainoo, Zirkzee and Garnacho. I really miss Mounts skillset here, but we have to do with the players available. I would start with Zirkzee and bring Garnacho on at some point.
Rasmus is our best and only 9. He is starving at the moment, and you could see his frustrations with the service yesterday. He was really mad at Mainoo and Amad for not getting it right on a couple of occasions in the first half. Michael Owen called the 9 at United for the most difficult striker position in the PL at the moment due to lack of service. I think he is right. Set Rasmus up, and he will score.
This would be my starting 11 for the Newcastle game:
Onana
Yoro-Maguire-Mazraoui
Amad-Casemiro-Martinez-Anthony
Eriksen-Zirkzee
Højlund
Thats it, Ruben. Now it´s up to you.
If you are reading this, you must be really desperate for a solution to your problems.
Nevertheless. Here is my suggestion, what you should do to prepare for the Newcastle game:
Stick with Onana. Yes. I know, but Bayindir was even worse. Talk him up. Force him to watch his best Serie A moments ten times a day to get his confidence back.
Rip Bruno of his Captainship and let him fight for his place. He does not deserve special treatment anymore.
Move Anthony to the LWB-position. He is the only left-foot with the attributes to potentially do well there. Make him cross till he drops in training.
Let Amad or Dalot play RWB. It is obvious, that Dalot is wasted on the left. The guy can´t cross with his left foot if his life depended on it. Let them cross till they drop in training. I prefer Amad, because he will try to beat a man. We are lacking that.
Mazraoui was really good at LCB. Move him back there. If it ain´t broke, don´t fix it.
Maguire and De Ligt are both good in the middle of the back three, but don´t play them elsewhere. They are slow and will get exposed. (Play both for the Liverpool game though, where we will stand deep. They are really good at dealing with crosses.)
Keep Yoro in for speed. He has not been that good, but he needs to play to get anywhere. There is a good player in there.
Ugarte is out. That is a problem. He fits your system almost as good as Hjulmand did at Sporting. Talk to him about taking too many risks though. He is collecting way too many yellows, and that is hurting us now.
Casemiro is slow, but he is still the best option to replace Ugarte for the Newcastle game. He is also an asset on corners.
Mainoo has lost his mojo this season, and should be benched for a while. With Bruno and Ugarte out, your first instinct will probably be to go with Eriksen. Don´t. He is too slow to defend the Newcastle/Liverpool midfield, and he is also needed elsewhere. Let Martinez play here for the Newcastle game, He can pass, and he can win back the ball, which is what we need. We really need to get a new player in for this position in the January window.
Eriksen should finally get to play at 10, setting the attacking players up. This is his best position, and he can still do real damage here. We only got control/composure, after Casemiro and Eriksen came on yesterday.
For the other AM-position it is a toss up. If you go with Dalot at RWB, I would play Amad here, but I would rather see Amad on RWB. That leaves you with Mainoo, Zirkzee and Garnacho. I really miss Mounts skillset here, but we have to do with the players available. I would start with Zirkzee and bring Garnacho on at some point.
Rasmus is our best and only 9. He is starving at the moment, and you could see his frustrations with the service yesterday. He was really mad at Mainoo and Amad for not getting it right on a couple of occasions in the first half. Michael Owen called the 9 at United for the most difficult striker position in the PL at the moment due to lack of service. I think he is right. Set Rasmus up, and he will score.
This would be my starting 11 for the Newcastle game:
Onana
Yoro-Maguire-Mazraoui
Amad-Casemiro-Martinez-Anthony
Eriksen-Zirkzee
Højlund
Thats it, Ruben. Now it´s up to you.
Blaming the manager is wild, you can clearly see he's exasperated with the team and players. Everything he says makes sense and I feel confidence in him despite the dreadful results. Look at the players who are actually decent but they still aren't playing well.
Mainoo is the clearest example I can think of, he's a superb young player with very high technical ability and good decision making. We saw it though the whole of last season he was a shining light for us. Today he was absolutely dreadful, within the first ten minutes he misplaced 4 passes and when there was a through ball on for our striker he didn't bother and made the wrong choice.
He's clearly a good player we've seen it before for us and for England but the players around him and the whole situation is a disaster which drags him down as well. We are in a sharp decline and you can't blame the new manager because the slide started a while ago but now is exacerbated by low morale and poor footballing ability.
We've seen the system work already and we've looked far far better at times, he needs time to implement the way of playing and most of all he needs new players who don't crap the bed as soon as the chips are down
Mainoo is the clearest example I can think of, he's a superb young player with very high technical ability and good decision making. We saw it though the whole of last season he was a shining light for us. Today he was absolutely dreadful, within the first ten minutes he misplaced 4 passes and when there was a through ball on for our striker he didn't bother and made the wrong choice.
He's clearly a good player we've seen it before for us and for England but the players around him and the whole situation is a disaster which drags him down as well. We are in a sharp decline and you can't blame the new manager because the slide started a while ago but now is exacerbated by low morale and poor footballing ability.
We've seen the system work already and we've looked far far better at times, he needs time to implement the way of playing and most of all he needs new players who don't crap the bed as soon as the chips are down
Agree, it's almost criminal they kept ETH and then sacked him 6 months later after letting him spend circa 150-200m.
The amount of people who have checked out already on Ruben is ridiculous, you wanted a system, you got one! You wanted ETH out, you got ETH out, you knew there was hard times to come, it’s here. These players are mentally weak, not very technical and that is on previous boards, and managers. Bloody hell people, stop playing football manager for one second and give him and chance.
I'm disapointed with how things have gone so far.
Maybe I was over optimisitc, but even taking the warnings on board that we would suffer, that we would be inconsistent I didn't think that would actually mean a further decline in results. More of an impvovement while still be being far from great and chucking in the odd shocker. Didn't expect us to lose 4 out of 7 in leahe league when it took ETH 9 games to lose 4, that's for sure. Would have thought we could have got to 11 or 12 before that happened, even that's losing a third of all your games, complete mixed form if you win 4 and draw the others.
Nowhere near even considering mentioning the word sack or anything like that. That's insanely premature.
I do have questions/reservations.
Maybe I was over optimisitc, but even taking the warnings on board that we would suffer, that we would be inconsistent I didn't think that would actually mean a further decline in results. More of an impvovement while still be being far from great and chucking in the odd shocker. Didn't expect us to lose 4 out of 7 in leahe league when it took ETH 9 games to lose 4, that's for sure. Would have thought we could have got to 11 or 12 before that happened, even that's losing a third of all your games, complete mixed form if you win 4 and draw the others.
Nowhere near even considering mentioning the word sack or anything like that. That's insanely premature.
I do have questions/reservations.